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Suggestion/Problem - Selecting and organising parts in a repeatable way and missions for restocking dynamic stores


Xennon

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So let me outline my problem. I run a ship store which is a dynamic construct at District 3. I have a factory which produces all the parts for all of my ship models (12 different models). When I restock my store, I have to go to all my various part output containers (approx 10 of them) and manually move out the specific number of parts for the amount of ships I want to stock, for every part in that ship, load it on to a transport, then do the same for the other ships. Then I fly it all to the store and move each set of parts into their respective sale containers which are attached to dispensers.

 

Here are main problems that make this process tedious when doing it for the 100000th time

  1. PROBLEM - Selecting the parts for a ship takes ages. It's the same set of parts every time, but there is no way to automate that. I have written lua scripts that use transfer units to move a specific combination of parts to a container, but transfer units are slow. it takes over a day to move all the parts for a ship, whereas I can drag and drop those same parts in a second. My current workaround is to manually move all of the constructed parts to a single container,  then connect a dispenser which is set up to vend the parts for a ship. I then use that dispenser to vend the specific parts into another container, and then package those parts up (packaging was a great addition btw, it certainly helps here). The ideal would be to be able to run a selection template over the part containers in order to pull out a specific set, that would eliminate the need for the 'consolidated container' and the dispensers, but open to suggestions on how this could be made easier.
    1. On the above, only one dispenser can be attached to a container at one time. this means to vend my ship parts, I have to disconnect a dispenser, connect the one I want to use, vend the parts, disconnect the dispenser, connect the next one etc etc.
    2. SUGGESTION - I know I'm using dispensers as a workaround here, but can't we have it so a container serves multiple dispenser?
    3. SUGGESTION - Maybe some kind of 'packing' machine, that takes a batch like dispensers, but can be connected to multiple source containers. When the full 'batch' is detected across all the source containers, it packages it up and outputs that package to a destination container. Appreciate this could possibly deprecate transfer units, but larger factories need some kind of way to automate the management of their inventories. Doing it manually isn't fun, and more machines means more opportunities for talents, production etc.
  2. PROBLEM - I wanted to use the mission system to have people come and do the deliveries to restock my store. So assuming problem 1 above is solved and I can (mostly) automate my preparation of stock, I could then package them up (or have the packing machine do it straight into a Parcel container) and create a mission to have it transported to my store. The problem?, you can't put a parcel container on a dynamic core. Of course this makes sense, you don't want people having a 'moving target' for a mission, but lots of people run dynamic core stores at the districts and markets.
    1. SUGGESTION - 1 (small, or maybe even add extra small) static core allowed per player per district/market. This would probably need a lot of thinking about, but these stores are an emergent part of the game (I was probably the first to do it since day one, and while it's always had mixed feedback, it was massively successful, so embracing this kind of emergent behaviour only makes the game better in my opinion. Attempting to get people to move their stores away from the districts and markets just doesn't make sense, because those areas are where the people are (especially new players, that my ships target).
    2. SUGGESTION - A generic delivery container at every district (like the market container) where things can be delivered to or collected from. This wouldn't be ideal, as there would always be the manual step of collecting the package (unless you allow people to link machines to it, but that seems doubtful) but it would at least allow people to set missions to carry things to markets/districts that they didn't want sold to the market. I could VR in, move the package to a container at my store and then unpack, which would still be pretty easy to do. Considering market containers already exist and are tied in to the mission system, this feels like it'd be a really easy implementation. I really want to engage players using the mission system to deliver my stuff, but I just can't do it at the moment, which seems like a big miss for the mission system ?
  3. PROBLEM - Ok, this one isn't really a major problem, but it'd be cool if you had the packing and unpacking machines that could link to parcel containers, and then automatically create missions based off a template. Would just automate another step in the pipeline (but appreciate you don't want to automate everything as then players don't actually need to log in).

 

So yeh, there are my use cases that aren't served by the current system. The biggest one is the mission system. I was really excited to start using to to engage delivery drivers, but I can't because there is just no way to set a district (or dynamic store) as a target for a delivery. 

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19 hours ago, Gottchar said:

Advertise it at the market with a single S core, have the store at your place.

That's vastly less convenient for customers and subsequently worse for business. The reason my store has always done so well is because it serves newer players and they can buy a ship directly from the district. 

 

The game should be supporting this kind of thing, not try to make it less convenient. 

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Oh so you are the "Xennons Ships For Sale" guy - your Advert was one of the first present on Markets from the beginning.

 

I build ships as well, but only BPs so I don't have your problem - I an understanding your logic here though.

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11 hours ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

Oh so you are the "Xennons Ships For Sale" guy - your Advert was one of the first present on Markets from the beginning.

 

I build ships as well, but only BPs so I don't have your problem - I an understanding your logic here though.

Yeh, I think I was probably the first to have a player run market place at a district, which made me both popular and unpopular in equal measure haha.

 

I started this game at the end of alpha and as soon as I got the hang of it my plan was to sell entire ships to serve newer players. but lord is stock control tedious! lol.

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A few things... 

 

A day to package a ship using transfer units and LUA, that must sounds wrong. Though the major problem with Lua us that it is client side. This makes it great for ships but terrible for factory management as sitting in a factory just so your scripts run isn’t fun

 

Second, yes having delivery box’s on dynamic constructs would be a problem is not done correctly. But it would be easy for NQ to say if the construct moves the mission is canceled. If somebody has taken the mission and you move the construct, then the mission is complete, they get the reward AND your package.

 

Third stores at the district are a problem. They need to rent out XS or S static cores around the edges of the runway where people can run their market. Letting the, place and run everywhere is a pain. Because for every thoughtful player there are two idiots who puts signs and box’s in annoying places. 

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8 minutes ago, CoyoteNZ said:

A few things... 

 

A day to package a ship using transfer units and LUA, that must sounds wrong. Though the major problem with Lua us that it is client side. This makes it great for ships but terrible for factory management as sitting in a factory just so your scripts run isn’t fun

 

Second, yes having delivery box’s on dynamic constructs would be a problem is not done correctly. But it would be easy for NQ to say if the construct moves the mission is canceled. If somebody has taken the mission and you move the construct, then the mission is complete, they get the reward AND your package.

 

Third stores at the district are a problem. They need to rent out XS or S static cores around the edges of the runway where people can run their market. Letting the, place and run everywhere is a pain. Because for every thoughtful player there are two idiots who puts signs and box’s in annoying places. 

 

It depends on the size of the ship. L atmospheric engines and L containers (and similarly large items) take 1-2 hours to transfer, each. So even an S core ship with a transfer unit running constantly takes about 24 hours to move all of the elements (could easily be more, could also be less). One of my ships is a tri scanner, I think it takes something like 6 hours just to do the territory scanners.

 

Yes indeed. I would prefer, as your third point says, specific space for static constructs that would circumvent that problem entirely while at the same time ratifying the player made stores at the markets concept. An S core off the side of the parking lot is exactly what I have, and I would be more than happy for that to be a static S core and pay some rent for the space. That brings its own problems of limited space and new players having nowhere to build (see things like Ultima Online back in the day), so would also need thinking about. That said, with player numbers as they are at the moment, it wouldn't be a problem, but you have to design assuming a larger player base.

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1 hour ago, Xennon said:

It depends on the size of the ship. L atmospheric engines and L containers (and similarly large items) take 1-2 hours to transfer, each. So even an S core ship with a transfer unit running constantly takes about 24 hours to move all of the elements (could easily be more, could also be less). One of my ships is a tri scanner, I think it takes something like 6 hours just to do the territory scanners.

 

With Lua I assume you are running many transfer units in parallel. The bottle neck would naturally be the storage container as you can only have ten transfer units feeding into it at once. Otherwise you have a three level of TU’s pulling and pushing the stock somthe ten feeding the final hub are always working at full.

 

be fun to play with, sure 24hr Sou dis to long still though. 

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1 hour ago, CoyoteNZ said:

 

With Lua I assume you are running many transfer units in parallel. The bottle neck would naturally be the storage container as you can only have ten transfer units feeding into it at once. Otherwise you have a three level of TU’s pulling and pushing the stock somthe ten feeding the final hub are always working at full.

 

be fun to play with, sure 24hr Sou dis to long still though. 

Not quite that simple when you're trying to do it for 5 different ship models. Can only have 10 transfer units total because then you hit the limit on the source storage containers.

 

So I have 2 TU's per ship model doubling up where possible. The more ship models you add, the harder and slower it gets. But really the point is, I can link a container and drag and drop something in a second, whereas a TU will take a day to do the same job. Kind of feel like there needs to be a middle ground there. 

 

(TBF, i've stopped with the TU's now. Instead I have 5 dispensers set up to vend the parts for each ship. I dump all of my produced parts, manually, into one massive storage container, then, one by one, connect the dispensers and vend a whole ship, package it, then move onto the next. It's a workaround, but far quicker than manually counting out the parts or waiting for the TU's).

 

TU's are designed for moving one thing, constantly, to somewhere else (like  a factory unit build it). They aren't designed for moving selections in bulk. They fit into a production line, not into a stock control system ?

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4 minutes ago, Xennon said:

They fit into a production line, not into a stock control system ?

 

 

If Lua wasn’t client side they could do both, but being client side it’s really limited to ships, which is a real shame as the possibility could be fantastic!

 

I wish there was an option to run my computer in a non-GUI mode where Imcan have it log in and run assigned constructs, rather than having to run the full game. I’d probably have an account for a headless server just to run my factories ? 

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Solution is already there. Use small non blocking advertisement and attract buyers to visit your shop.

 

You are blocking market pod. Making life harder for lots of people. And you are asking for tools to make your life easier...  

 

 

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49 minutes ago, tomasco said:

Solution is already there. Use small non blocking advertisement and attract buyers to visit your shop.

 

You are blocking market pod. Making life harder for lots of people. And you are asking for tools to make your life easier...  

 

 

 

Already addressed this above. 

 

a) I'm at a district, not a market.

b) My store is off to the side of the landing pad so is already non blocking - I even have an elevator to take people from the ground floor to the parking level so they don't have to run to the stairs.

c) Adverts to redirect people to some other location is not efficient or convenient for customers/business.

d) I've sold a tonne of ships and helped loads of new players get into the game where otherwise they would have struggled. So trust me, I've helped far more people than I've hindered.

 

Players congregating around market areas is natural, and so selling things to them there should also be natural. The game should find proper ways of implementing this rather than just saying the 'solution' is to do something counterintuitive. Emergent gameplay started people making stores at busy player hubs, DU should find a way of embracing this in a more streamlined way.

 

Other items were mentioned above. Rentable static space is one. You could also make it so you can sell full ships at the market, or have a player section of the UEF store with a scrollable catalogue or VR sales area.

 

'Do it a worse way' is a pointless argument.

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2 hours ago, Xennon said:

 

Already addressed this above. 

 

a) I'm at a district, not a market.

b) My store is off to the side of the landing pad so is already non blocking - I even have an elevator to take people from the ground floor to the parking level so they don't have to run to the stairs.

c) Adverts to redirect people to some other location is not efficient or convenient for customers/business.

d) I've sold a tonne of ships and helped loads of new players get into the game where otherwise they would have struggled. So trust me, I've helped far more people than I've hindered.

 

Players congregating around market areas is natural, and so selling things to them there should also be natural. The game should find proper ways of implementing this rather than just saying the 'solution' is to do something counterintuitive. Emergent gameplay started people making stores at busy player hubs, DU should find a way of embracing this in a more streamlined way.

 

Other items were mentioned above. Rentable static space is one. You could also make it so you can sell full ships at the market, or have a player section of the UEF store with a scrollable catalogue or VR sales area.

 

'Do it a worse way' is a pointless argument.

 

 

Maybe you are the one who is doing this in not so invading way. But still you are using common property for yourself. So making it easier for you is not in the best interest of players.

I'm against helping players, who are abusing common properties.

 

I like the idea of player made ships in UEF store. 90% of player made ships on DU Creators are much better than standard UEF ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tomasco said:

 

 

Maybe you are the one who is doing this in not so invading way. But still you are using common property for yourself. So making it easier for you is not in the best interest of players.

I'm against helping players, who are abusing common properties.

 

I like the idea of player made ships in UEF store. 90% of player made ships on DU Creators are much better than standard UEF ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The UEF ships are terrible. In fact, I'd go as far as to say they are damaging for the game, because new players have them and have a terrible experience of supposedly 'official' ships.

 

I see where you're coming from about the common areas, but that is why the game needs to embrace it and make some changes to make use of those common spaces official. Just kicking everyone out of them is denying what has been an important emergent behaviour in the game. It just needs to be done properly ?

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In Elite Dangerous you have market venders which connect to your guild store. They are run by a blind tender every week.

 

While there system is a lot easier to embrace because their market is a menu based system, surely some ideas could be gained from that?

 

Have S cores around the platform, each is closed tender for a month. You get one week notice that you have won or lost the tender. Anything you don’t move out of the shop after a renter change is abandoned. 

 

Or maybe even you rent two or three medium signs with a teleport hub?

 

The current soloution just seems bad

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