Jump to content

Upcoming Org Changes


Noddles

Recommended Posts

I suspect this has little to do with community or balancing game loops, and more to do with managing server cost.

Simply put there are strong indicators that this game does not scale, and the vision JC had of flying over planets watching sprawling civilizations and community driven cities is fading rapidly. And it pretty much all boils down to the persistence factor in this game. Something we have always said would be problematic for many reasons, but all the discussions never resulted in anything but total silence from NQ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Eternal said:

Access to wallet should be the elected treasurer of the org. Only they have the power to disburse. They have to be convinced to disburse. And there should be transparency where everyone can see the balance and financial history (record).  Should there be any graft committed by the treasurer, there must be a way to remove him out of power.

 

I don't think you should limit it. If the treasurer is a trusted individual (which he should be in the first place), he won't abuse his power. That is the point of the wallet: to keep the funds in the hands of the trusted individual/s. Only they can take out funds from the coffer and give it to a member of organization that requested for it themselves through barter trading. You can't give everyone access to the coffer, it is stupid and unsystematic (unbureaucratic).

No. These things should be options that the Super Legate chooses (or not). There should be a settings panel or something under Organization Management, with a searchable log. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the core issue with the whole thing:

If @Noddles runs an org and so do I and want to do a collaboration in form of an alliance or other community effort, we need to find someone that doesn't run an org to run the org for us.

 

I understand that NQ wants to plan for the longer term and bring some order, what is presented can NOT be the solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

I suspect this has little to do with community or balancing game loops, and more to do with managing server cost.

 

This... but on side of loops: it seems like over all this 6 years no one actualy thought (until now?) how whole carnival with alts and multiple orgs and economic/in-game-political things heavily dependent on them can actualy work in meaningful, long term way.

 

Shame NQ too small/irrelevant to be juicy target or Jason Schreier pissed his pants from revelations for sure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn! and you were doing so well. But the truth is you really are making this up as you go along!

 

Ok so this is a deal breaker for me.

 

I have been reading chats in various Discords where the opinion seems to be that everyone knew nested orgs was illegal, these all being people with 5+ alts (I guess money in the bank for NQ but surely 10000 actual individual players is more healthy than 1000 players with 10 alts!) but anyway, I can't afford multiple accounts.

 

If something is not allowed - don't let it be done!

 

I have been playing since the game went public, building my Empire. When Schemagate happened, I was angry, but I took a deep breath and bought the schematics I could afford and have slowly built up again. To keep this going (and for future growth) along the way I have scanned for what are known as meganodes and saw that there was a way to afford these using nested Orgs. Great! I thought, I missed out on the 1q Warp Beacon Schematics but at least I can afford a few nodes to keep me going. I hate mining (I am physically uncomfortable when I pass the 3 hour mark mindlessly clicking a button) so I have a collection of nodes close that I can use to keep the machines running and that way it's manageable. When a node is done I keep the 'property', so that, when Mining machines arrive I can fully clean it out and therefore get maximum return on my investment. I have been greatly enjoying the game. I've made a nice base and just started building my Space Station in preparation for visiting the outer planets to search for new resources.

 

And then 'BAM' out of the blue, 'bend over Mark, it's time for another rogering'(verb VULGAR SLANG•BRITISH). Seriously guy's you can't do this to us again!

 

There is no mechanism for transferring ownership of tiles!

The blueprint system doesn't allow for precision placing so moving buildings involves demolishing and starting again!

There isn't even a way to see and interact with our Orgs and their assets (i.e. how many tiles/static/dynamic cores does ShaftedAgain Org own/ where are they/ what limit does their skills allow/ etc/ etc).

 

Guy's, the game is clunky as fuck! - but we keep playing because we see it has something, it could be great.
You really should spend a year sorting out the infrastructure and bugs!


So here's how you're going to fix this:
Increase the allowed Org number - I mean, in RL you can have as many companies as you want! 3 maybe? - get back to us with a proposal that reduces server cost or whatever the reason for this madness is and works for you.
You ask us which Org/Orgs we want to keep and you transfer all tiles, constructs and cash out of the others into that Org/Orgs.
Then going forward we have to pay increased costs and limit the amount we own adhering to new clearly defined limits.

 

If you want this game to succeed why do you do your utmost to drive us away?

 

And in future if you have a problem with something in the game that you designed and made refer to the detailed design documents that were produced ....Lol only joking!.....put it into the community to help come up with an answer - we all want it to succeed as much as you do!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that the game is tedious. But I guess it is beta and changes every now and then. I also get that many want persistence and it is ok to utter criticism. Yet I feel some, the louder they are, also have an excessively strong sense of victimhood. They act like they didn't buy/sub the game, much more like they own the publisher, even more can dictate the people behind the scenes what they  (exactly) have to do. Even when NQ made and makes hard or questionable decisions, the way parts of the discussion go,  it just seems exaggerated and unfriendly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SirJohn85 said:

Here's the core issue with the whole thing:

If @Noddles runs an org and so do I and want to do a collaboration in form of an alliance or other community effort, we need to find someone that doesn't run an org to run the org for us.

 

I understand that NQ wants to plan for the longer term and bring some order, what is presented can NOT be the solution.

I think thats the underlying problem here. Were these changes needed for various reasons? Yes. But NQ provided 0 tools to recreate the structures we built using this system. The only way to create alliances or community projects now is to either bring in a random player or to use an alt. And NEEDING an alt to perform a basic game function should not be the answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BAD NQ bad bad bad!

 

Don’t do it. Not sure what problem you are trying to solve as you didn’t tell us, but you are causing two much collateral damage!

 

Determine the problem you are having. Work out your preferred solution. Engage the community in case there are unforeseen problems with the issue. Refine, repeat until your not messing up more than you are fixing. Then code.

 

Is your problem nested orgs are getting to many cheat territories rather than paying the increasing price? Make the price based on the number of TCU’s deployed by the super. If the super is and Org the supper of that org, etc..

 

Please tell us what problems you are trying to fix, as this solution seems to just make more!

 

Oh and if you are going to do anything with orgs, please get rid of the current super, legate, member system. Have super, and then have all other roles can be created, each role can be assigned rights, people can have more than one role. This current system is ancient, terrible and needs some serious work.

 

Before you nuke orgs, give them the tools they need!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2021 at 2:33 PM, blazemonger said:

So they have neither the player base nor a stable and sustainable game at this point

And that is a real shame.

 

hvi5ec.jpg

I'm sure you recognize this little guy. :D

 

This is a TLDR version of two announcements I made to the members of Eyes & Ears over the past 48 hours that I am making publicly, check our thread in the novark registry for the full details.

 

I’m abandoning a post-launch community tribute project and likely to abandon a currently running consolidated advertising project since these new changes will simply make it impossible to accomplish as either all members involved are either a super legate already, or it’s a private passion project that I don’t want to delegate 100% ownership to. All of this while still leaving room for Eyes & Ears to expand and grow as the game proceeds into the future.

 

This does not make me a happy person having to abandon my projects as NQ is now taking an aggressive posture and telling me to either give them money, which I already did and you can see it in the sidebar, or have faith and trust in someone else.

 

It’s difficult to have faith though, Lord JC is gone, and I refuse to part with more money than I already have for a company that I’m losing faith in, if it’s not completely lost already. I've been with NovaQuark through some silly thicc highs, and some nearly 'I quit' lows. While this is just another one of those lows, it's different because this isn't just a mechanic I can work around as I have in the past. All it will take is one more push, you’ll know it when it happens, you can find me in the StarBase discord as of yesterday.

 

I'll end this by saying that Eyes & Ears is under no threat of disbanding, and will otherwise continue onwards unaffected by this change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

18 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

 

This... but on side of loops: it seems like over all this 6 years no one actualy thought (until now?) how whole carnival with alts and multiple orgs and economic/in-game-political things heavily dependent on them can actualy work in meaningful, long term way.

 

Shame NQ too small/irrelevant to be juicy target or Jason Schreier pissed his pants from revelations for sure.

 

 


I think is only start.. the same lime first they fixed core .. now org.. So i believe some in the future coming some mechanics for make some alliances or other things. Some thing like a standing system in EVE or else.. So no need rush to much.. something what we dont know them idea. We can see game from start beta untill now to much change.. so dont worry this things i also thinking coming later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Area51 said:

Damn! and you were doing so well. But the truth is you really are making this up as you go along!

 

Ok so this is a deal breaker for me.

 

I have been reading chats in various Discords where the opinion seems to be that everyone knew nested orgs was illegal, these all being people with 5+ alts (I guess money in the bank for NQ but surely 10000 actual individual players is more healthy than 1000 players with 10 alts!) but anyway, I can't afford multiple accounts.

 

If something is not allowed - don't let it be done!

 

I have been playing since the game went public, building my Empire. When Schemagate happened, I was angry, but I took a deep breath and bought the schematics I could afford and have slowly built up again. To keep this going (and for future growth) along the way I have scanned for what are known as meganodes and saw that there was a way to afford these using nested Orgs. Great! I thought, I missed out on the 1q Warp Beacon Schematics but at least I can afford a few nodes to keep me going. I hate mining (I am physically uncomfortable when I pass the 3 hour mark mindlessly clicking a button) so I have a collection of nodes close that I can use to keep the machines running and that way it's manageable. When a node is done I keep the 'property', so that, when Mining machines arrive I can fully clean it out and therefore get maximum return on my investment. I have been greatly enjoying the game. I've made a nice base and just started building my Space Station in preparation for visiting the outer planets to search for new resources.

 

And then 'BAM' out of the blue, 'bend over Mark, it's time for another rogering'(verb VULGAR SLANG•BRITISH). Seriously guy's you can't do this to us again!

 

There is no mechanism for transferring ownership of tiles!

The blueprint system doesn't allow for precision placing so moving buildings involves demolishing and starting again!

There isn't even a way to see and interact with our Orgs and their assets (i.e. how many tiles/static/dynamic cores does ShaftedAgain Org own/ where are they/ what limit does their skills allow/ etc/ etc).

 

Guy's, the game is clunky as fuck! - but we keep playing because we see it has something, it could be great.
You really should spend a year sorting out the infrastructure and bugs!


So here's how you're going to fix this:
Increase the allowed Org number - I mean, in RL you can have as many companies as you want! 3 maybe? - get back to us with a proposal that reduces server cost or whatever the reason for this madness is and works for you.
You ask us which Org/Orgs we want to keep and you transfer all tiles, constructs and cash out of the others into that Org/Orgs.
Then going forward we have to pay increased costs and limit the amount we own adhering to new clearly defined limits.

 

If you want this game to succeed why do you do your utmost to drive us away?

 

And in future if you have a problem with something in the game that you designed and made refer to the detailed design documents that were produced ....Lol only joking!.....put it into the community to help come up with an answer - we all want it to succeed as much as you do!

Whaaaat? You can very simple change owner construct .. with just 2 click mouse buttom.. learn game pls. About this things. And claim you can take out and out back with new org.. without deconstruct your core.. What is problem mate? 

only one things i agree.. is about no more any information where is it and etc. But i think it coming in future with territory wars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

I suspect this has little to do with community or balancing game loops, and more to do with managing server cost.

Simply put there are strong indicators that this game does not scale, and the vision JC had of flying over planets watching sprawling civilizations and community driven cities is fading rapidly. And it pretty much all boils down to the persistence factor in this game. Something we have always said would be problematic for many reasons, but all the discussions never resulted in anything but total silence from NQ.

 

That's the  first thing I thought too.  My guess is there are a lot of sub-orgs using cores and server resources (heaven forbid.)

 

Oh well, par for the course.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a great opportunity to report here from my point of view.
I myself am a mixed player, I like to play solo, but I also join groups if my reallife allows it, support community projects and actually participate in everything that is fun. I myself came from Archeage and WoW, because I was attracted by the almost limitless building and building up of whole societies.

I'm a fan of StarTrek - especially the Borg - everyone who knows me probably knows that too. So I build everything that has to do with that topic. Spaceships, probes but also cities and the Borg construct.
Since there are not many players like me who share this very special love, it was no problem for me to start this huge project myself. I took some tiles and set up hundreds of L-Cores and built them for months. A city has emerged that many have probably already visited or seen parts of in pictures.


This construct offers space for many players, everyone could "rent" streets, buildings and just interesting things to discover - even a mine with machinery, steelworks, glass factories ....The goal was to create a mega-building that adheres to a design. I had to create several organisations for this, simply because I was held up by the core limitations that exist for each org. I also used the rights system with sub-organisations, for example to set up one organisation for rental ships and another to be able to rent out buildings and then assign players their buildings securely. Of course, I also used all these organisations to claim the territory of these projects, after all there are over 40 tiles and I was not aware that this would represent a ban, as many players use it and there was no ban anywhere. Instead, it was an opportunity to build a gigantic structure that many players enjoyed and admired. In other words, it was a "sight to see".
 

Now I've been in the process of having to tear the whole thing down for days, because in a month's time I'll only have one organisation left, unless I play Dual Universe with a p2w and buy lots more accounts. (a premium account would even make more sense) Do you or NQ really want to go down this p2w route?

At the moment, I am very disappointed by the upcoming changes, purely from what I can build as a player. Simply because limits are being imposed on how much I can build, regardless of whether I play for 1 month or 10 years. The day will come when you are simply not allowed to build anything any more, and I'm probably way over that with the Borg construct.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Underhand Aerial said:

Just don't do it NQ. More I cant say polite.

At least a friendly explanation would be appropriate. Of course, these have already been listed here several times by the players, but we are curious who reacts out of which ambitions.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of you already know me and most of you also know that i keep on shouting NO MORE LIMITS.

 

And till now i was met with aggression for that standing position, but seems the tide is turning.

Already for some time DU is not developing but it is limiting, problems are not dealt with, limits are thrown in the game. have a choice between developing a solution or implement limitations? LETS LIMIT IT!!!!!!   For me this is just another show of uncannily bad development. There are so many ways this could have been solved, and since day one that people are making organizations they are building them like this. And Now after messing up schematics, ignoring exploids for a year, favouring some players over others, now we get this great thought about solution to kill the remaining veterans of DU.

 

I would give you a standing ovation but im running to the toilet as i get a fair amount of diareaa of this shitty solution with another fine new LIMITATION.

 

One suggestion, change the name please, this is nolonger Dual Universe, Dual is just to much honour. Please rename the game to Limited Universe,

 

You know what they say, You can LU it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the limits make sense for an MMO, only thing I think DU did wrong is start with high limits and then decrease the limits, when it should be the other way around. Like I always thought the personal core limit was way too low, but they could always increase that later by adding a talent.
Anyways that's all hindsight now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DU was created by an academic with no experience in the field -- so it isn't that surprising it was built with a lot of half-baked, experimental ideas...but not backed by a robust technical core that could actually scale in the real world (even with relatively small pops). 


The DU site says "build almost anything" like "cities", but they never actually planned the tech around supporting this at any meaningful scale. They saw that something could work in an early prototype and declared proudly that their "cutting edge tech" would work at the most extreme scales...without ever really testing it or optimizing for it. 


I think NQ is going to implement even more restrictions because they want to start ramping up marketing again.

 

They probably believe that the last few updates have improved the game enough that their churn rates will be much improved relative to open beta...but to ramp up marketing, they need to be sure that costs are cheaper per player and that scaling out servers nets them a profit and not even more loss. 

 

I very much doubt that they'll be happy with their churn rates if that's the plan...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FROM 1375 ORG CORES TO -> 275

NO

HABITANTS INVESTED 200M IN TERRITORIES 

ANY REFUNDS?

RESOURCE PER HOUR FIASCO ANY REFUNDS ?

LESS RESOURCES NEEDED NOW WITH LESS CORES

AT LEAST SOMETHING

SMALLER GAME 

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME 

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

SMALLER GAME

 

PS : I am up with everything will make this game better for all of us. But make it right for all of us also...

XL Cores saves us all :D

 

Habitant

Habitants Organization

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Most of you already know me and most of you also know that i keep on shouting NO MORE LIMITS.

 

And till now i was met with aggression for that standing position, but seems the tide is turning.

 


what kind of aggression did you face for saying no more limits?

 

 

i for one do unstertand the desire for limitless expansion but I hate that fact that our tiles have been surrounded and boxed in by chancers with orgs like  “pay2own” and “showmecash” or suchlike. 
 

the fact is, NQ naively created a limit of tiles per org with exponential costs but then allowed people to drop a TU as a sub org. 
 

The concept  of sub orgs was of course unsurprisingly used in unforeseen ways due to NQs extreme naïveté of implementation. 
 

but what to do now the damage is done, without wiping the server?

 

someone is going to be unhappy. 
 

if they implemented DACs. People like a chap above who made a “sight to see” and it was good enough, he could get other players to chip in  with dacs to keep his alts afloat. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, good points. Also if the cost per account per year are not to high people might even keep alts running without dacs. Seeing some people are willing to pay overpriced for phones and phone subscriptions there is no telling what people will do to keep alts running, specially since there was talk about getting 3 alts per premium account. If all those can own territories or orgs then having an alt, or two is very lucrative. Specially for gold sellers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, this will mess up those who have a bunch of territories claimed under sub-orgs because it was cheaper - and of course you could claim a lot more territories this way.

I have to wonder if this is about the mining changes as if they don't do this one could have a lot of territories to auto mine on fairly easily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...