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Running client on Linux


Crandules

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19 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Yes, i have that example in mind. 

And most of the problems of java are related to the crappy programers doing code in it. 

 

But java is not a true binary standard. 

Java vm only allows "binaries" written in java language. 

The idea would be for any .obj created by compiling a code file to be able to  linked into that new binary format. 

 

Those binaries, instead of preforming kernel calls directly, would provide a place in memory for the address of those calls to be added by the OS. 

 

Instead of assuming maloc calls kernel on address 0xNNNNN the binary would require that address to be fulfilled by the kernel on program start. 

 

Understand that this things already exist. 

There is a windows standard, very well known. And a Linux standard, and a Playstation format, etc... 

 

We just need regulation to force them all to adopt a single standard. 

Sorry - um - wrong. Java 'binaries' are compiled to the JVM. You can run any language that produces JVM binaries on it. Scala and Kotlin both come to mind. Don't get me wrong. not a big fan of the JVM, but you need to get your facts straight.

 

Any other 'binaries' still require either a 'different' VM sitting on top of the processor or a single unified processor architecture.

 

There also is not really a Linux 'standard'. There is a subset of stuff for Linux that is adopted and then the rest is up to RedHat, etc to implement. Same issue as Unix. Never learned their lesson. Also, hate to tell you this, but a single company providing something is not a 'standard'. That is a product. Standards (to be really picky) are defined by standards organizations such as ISO and are adopted by entire industries not individual companies.

 

As to crappy programmers - there are crappy, average and good programmers in every language under the sun. It is not the language that is the issue. Having worked in a good number of languages I can confidently tell you the language is never the issue.

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5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

The new price is €30/month up from €15 .. If you can get a GPU suitable to play DU for 300AUD hen by all means.. go for it..

Any subscription model for a hardware service is lost money that is better put towards hardware. doesn't take much thinking to realize that mate

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

NQ manages to barely stay alive right now just having to deal with Windows. Unless they change their chat engine framework, supporting another OS is simply not going to happen.

 

 

ok if thats the case then they must be a sinking ship and it probably best not support them by subscribing to the game.

5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

LOL.. Linux accounts for 2.38 of desktop OS installs, and that is probably 70% Ubuntu/Debian, 20-ish % RH and then the rest.. That number has not budged at all after the Valve push.. It's also interesting how ppl keep bringing in Vulkan where that support for that framework has hardly seen any change, most games still are on DX11 today, if not DX9

 

yeah and in the server space Red hat serves the vast majority so lets stop taking out our bum and rubbishing Linux. going by your posts and i am fairly sure it is your posts in the other threads too that dive this down into a linux verse windows argument. this is irrelevant.

5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Going back to the OP questions, it's just a matter of resources and money. The question comes up every now and then and the arguments are mostly the same every time. But the number simply are not there. I'm pretty sure ore people got impacted by and now can play because of the issues DU has on Shadow than there are potential players on Linux and NQ doe snot have the time or resources to prioritise fixing that issue. 

 

the reality is they should be. Linux users are going to extra expense to play their game and bugs are bugs. they should be fixed if you are going to charge for the service. especially if you blatantly saying that it is not worth investing time in it and in the other breath saying linux users should fork out an additional $50 per month in order to play the game. with that attitude towards potential customers and actual customers i will cancel my subscription to dual universe as it is clear they are to lazy to support and dont want linux users in their player base in any form. that sentiment is clear. 

 

3 hours ago, Cheith said:

0.2% - sorry, but the testing alone is not worth it. Should work and do work, as you know, are not exactly the same things. Ubuntu also isn't all of Linux and all Linux clients are not the same. I also have a feeling that the DU client might be a tiny little bit more complex than your average Steam game. Once you get into threading and the like it usually gets harder to move between the platforms as their models are different. If it is a single event queue type game not so much.

3 hours ago, Cheith said:

Also, why would developers push Linux over Windows if it gives them what they want? As a game developer why would you care? Indeed as a developer a single platform monopoly makes your life easier. It would be one thing if we have one version of Linux but we don't even have that. So the order goes Win, Mac, and then maybe Linux.

 

 

 

getting tired of non linux users putting this argument forward that the distributions are all different and a client has to be coded for each. the distributions are not that different to make development that hard. the majority of packages are cross distribution  and the ones that are not you can provide the binaries and can be compiled for each distro as needed.

the kernal for each is exactly the same. this argument only works in the hope that people either dont know any better or wont actually research to find what you say is wrong.

by splitting up ubuntu from other distributions is plain and simple to make the numbers seem even smaller than they really are. 

6 hours ago, blazemonger said:

When Steam announced it's push on Linux support two years ago the entire 2% of the market share using Linux sang praise and glory.. today, that hype  resulted in .. well.. nothing.

 

the same could be said for DU really. there are 115,217,872 warcraft users and about 434,761 DU players so that means DU is only 0.38% the size of warcraft 

and Eve online only 8523914 players and compared to that DU is only 5.1%

so i guess if we are going to use this line of thinking then DU wont ever amount to anything and we should all stop supporting it. same logic

 

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1 hour ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

As some have said: ShadowPC.

 

did you not see where i mentioned that if you sign up today they have stated it will be a full year until your service is commissioned? that is simply ridiculous.

 

1 hour ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

I don't know why this discussion is going on ... I am fairly sure there will NEVER be a Linux Version of DU.

 

we don't need a linux client. we just need a windows client that can work using proton. even if we have to self support any bugs that arise. that is how other software that has come to linux works. and even if it has bugs i would choose that over having to dual boot any day.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bazzybtec said:

 

getting tired of non linux users putting this argument forward that the distributions are all different and a client has to be coded for each. the distributions are not that different to make development that hard. the majority of packages are cross distribution  and the ones that are not you can provide the binaries and can be compiled for each distro as needed.

the kernal for each is exactly the same. this argument only works in the hope that people either dont know any better or wont actually research to find what you say is wrong.

by splitting up ubuntu from other distributions is plain and simple to make the numbers seem even smaller than they really are. 

the same could be said for DU really. there are 115,217,872 warcraft users and about 434,761 DU players so that means DU is only 0.38% the size of warcraft 

and Eve online only 8523914 players and compared to that DU is only 5.1%

so i guess if we are going to use this line of thinking then DU wont ever amount to anything and we should all stop supporting it. same logic

 

Um write software for Linux servers each and every day. They are still NOT THE SAME. Close doesn't cut it - I have different distributions for database servers for different Linux platforms as an example. As soon as you get different distributions then you have extra testing. For a desktop system that has a small user base already it is just not worth it. Linux is an after the fact effort for already released and successful games - so when DU is released and successful it may make sense. It is also still going to come after OS/X.

 

Dumb logic on the last point, and you know it. It is not like Linux is shiny new. It is not like all the same mistakes were not made before. Linux suppliers just have not learned from the Unix debacle. What you really need is Google to decide to do it - gNix - and then maybe it has a chance with the right driver support, tools, GUI, no command line required, etc. Right now unless it is pre-packed tightly it is a solid super geek platform for a desktop OS.

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Impling that  macOS X is related to linux is quite amusing.  It's like saying AIX is related to RHEL.

MacOS X kernel is based on MachOS (a fork of BSD UNIX)  kernel and pretty much most of intial userspace programs were liberally borrowed from netBSD.

 

I cannot help but to react to some things that have been said about Valve.  It is true to Valve has commited to a number of things in recent years, they've pretty much abandoned most of them: steam controller is dead, steam machines are dead, steamLink and steamOS is pretty much in maintenace mode. Index was one few bright exceptions but i wouldn't hold my breath on Vave sticking to it in long term. Now gaben is hinting steamOS based console,  which will either never see the light of the day or end up like another steam machines failure. They track record is spotty at best of times.

 

As for joaocordeiro's posts in this thread go, i can't really tell if he's shamelessly trolling or really believes what what he's saying.  I tend to believe it to be the former as the latter would imply a complete lack of understanding of the subject matter.  And while i may not have agreed with many things he has posted in the past, it always thought he's generally a fairly sharp lad and this just doesn't fit the bill.   

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2 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

the reality is they should be. Linux users are going to extra expense to play their game and bugs are bugs. they should be fixed if you are going to charge for the service. especially if you blatantly saying that it is not worth investing time in it and in the other breath saying linux users should fork out an additional $50 per month in order to play the game. with that attitude towards potential customers and actual customers i will cancel my subscription to dual universe as it is clear they are to lazy to support and dont want linux users in their player base in any form. that sentiment is clear. 

 

No one is saying that game developers in general or NQ specifically here would not want to see Linux based players but the facts you keep trying to sweep under the rug and pretend to not see are that there is not enough  potential customers to make it commercially viable to support them.

 

This is not a Linux vs Windows debate, it is a numbers game and Linux userbase simply does not have the numbers to justify spending money and resources on in a commercial sense when talking game development.

 

I am also not saying you should do anything, _YOU_  make a choice to run a Linux distribution which has a seriously low market share on desktop (for RH, probably in the neighbourhood of 0.5%) and with it _YOU_ place yourself in a position where you are not a viable target to support as the cost to do so would never be made back. That is just the economic reality. Stating NQ is too lazy to support Linux and in the same breath stating you do what you do a few post back just tells me you really do not have a good grasp of that reality.

 

 

2 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

getting tired of non linux users putting this argument forward that the distributions are all different and a client has to be coded for each. the distributions are not that different to make development that hard. the majority of packages are cross distribution  and the ones that are not you can provide the binaries and can be compiled for each distro as needed.

 

Then why is the creator of Linux making that exact argument when answering what needs to be achieved for Linux distros to become more mainstream? Are you saying you know something he does not? And are you saying that "binaries can be compiled" (?) or are you saying game developers should just give you the source code of their game so you can compile it yourself?

 

 

2 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

by splitting up ubuntu from other distributions is plain and simple to make the numbers seem even smaller than they really are. 

the same could be said for DU really. there are 115,217,872 warcraft users and about 434,761 DU players so that means DU is only 0.38% the size of warcraft and Eve online only 8523914 players and compared to that DU is only 5.1%

 

You do know you are quoting numbers from a website (mmopolulation.com) which is easily shown to fabricate and inflate their numbers and be grossly inaccurate right? Last time WoW subscriber numbers were published was back in 2015 and the number was around 5.5 Million. EVE has about 350K active unique accounts as this is frequently shared by CCP in public. DU had about 50K active accounts last time these numbers were public, around this time last year .. Oh and according to your unreliable source, SC has 13.24M players, while CIG has their account number on the front page of the website and it shows 3.1M accounts

 

No one here is arguing that DU is a massive popular game or that it is mainstream. In fact, any sensible person here will know and understand DU is a super niche game which has limited appeal. This is fine because even with that limited appeal, the game could still draw in more than enough of a player base to be a viable and profitable commercial endeavour. In order for that to become a reality though, NQ must shoot for the largest possible potential audience so they can attract enough players to generate enough revenue to stay alive and grow. This unfortunately (for you) does not include Linux users, as supporting Linux would come at a net loss and the potential userbase is not big enough to absorb that loss. Hence no Linux support.. Again.. it's just a numbers game.

 

 

2 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

so i guess if we are going to use this line of thinking then DU wont ever amount to anything and we should all stop supporting it. same logic

 

You seem to be missing the point here.. entirely. I did not back DU because I thought it would be a massively successful game with millions of players. I backed the game because of the potential and original vision for the game, knowing full well that over time that vision would need to be adjusted and based on that vision the game would never be a mainstream title and come close to the numbers they hoped or accounted for. If a game in the vein of DU would kickstart today, I'd probably back it again for the same reason.

 

 

In general, you attribute others with doing something which effectively is instigated and driven by yourself. You pretty much are talking to a mirror with earplugs in and a blindfold on, not wanting to hear anything you do not agree with and blind to the facts.

 

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you guys are a real piece of work. I AM NOT SAYING THEY SHOULD CREATE A LINUX CLIENT.  my post was and always has been about running the windows client on linux as has been possible with a large number of other indie titles.  I am not asking for them to support it. I honestly dont care if i am the only person in the world who runs linux

 

additionally if we are going to play the numbers game there are more linux users than the number of people who play this game. and likely ever will play this game. there have been many startups like this and most of them have ended in failure. and with this attitude so will DU

 

This forum has really turned me off playing this game to be honest. I am going to cancel my subscription as the player base of this game is obviously toxic

 

I am not interested in hearing any more replies you may as well not bother as i at this point am no longer a player of Dual Universe. i will stick to eve or one of the other countless games that support linux without arguments breaking out. perhaps i will wait for starbase to come out. it is claimed to be compatible with proton.

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3 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

you guys are a real piece of work. I AM NOT SAYING THEY SHOULD CREATE A LINUX CLIENT.  my post was and always has been about running the windows client on linux as has been possible with a large number of other indie titles. 

 

As the 3rd party anti cheat framework NQ uses does not run on Linux, the client will not do so either. An in regards to a native Linux client, NQ has always said that that is not a priority, will not happen so some time for sure and may be a consideration at some point after release.

 

So I guess that answers your question then and the threat can be closed now /s

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7 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

 

 

This forum has really turned me off playing this game to be honest. I am going to cancel my subscription as the player base of this game is obviously toxic

 

 

Now that is funny - you have no decent argument so the player base is toxic. Nice.

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8 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

This forum has really turned me off playing this game to be honest. I am going to cancel my subscription as the player base of this game is obviously toxic

 

There are allot of reasons to do this. 

But dont use this topic as a excuse. 

 

There are like 5 ppl replying to you. 

1 of them may be considered toxic, the others are just debating the topic. 

 

If you dont like the game cancel the subscription.

Just dont make up excuses. 

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11 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

There are allot of reasons to do this. 

But dont use this topic as a excuse. 

 

There are like 5 ppl replying to you. 

1 of them may be considered toxic, the others are just debating the topic. 

 

If you dont like the game cancel the subscription.

Just dont make up excuses. 

yes i grant you it is that 1 person that is what prompted that comment in frustration. having said that I feel that as a linux user I have had to justify my choice in OS on this forum when i was simply asking about running the windows client on linux. I didn't expect this to erupt into what it turned into. as mentioned above I need linux for my job and DU is just a game. i am not going to change OS putting my livelihood at risk just to play a game.

 

and i am not sure who said it but I find it greatly offensive being referred to as a geek. I am not socially inept just because I am using an operating system my job requires of me. to say so is rather childish and that was coming from one of the other people in the 5 you mention to the one who was being toxic. 

 

also please don't for a moment think i need to "make excuses"  or in any way have to justify to you why i cancel a subscription. your response implies i need to and that simply isn't the case. even if if i choose to cancel my subscription and leave the game because the name on your avatar, that is my choice and no words you waist commenting that it is an excuse will change the fact that it is the reason. how dare you dictate the circumstances of my departure. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, bazzybtec said:

how dare you dictate the circumstances of my departure. 

Well, i dont know about "geek". And i dont regard the "geek" as a offense. 

 

But you're definitely being a "diva" 

 

And please understand, i agree with you with your posts about Linux. 

 

But in this world, unlike what cartoons would make us believe, ppl are not allways right or allways wrong. 

 

And you are wrong with your "toxic" excuse. 

And not that we are not "toxic", we are, to the point NQ had to warn us, a few weeks ago. 

I myself got a serious warning about "trolling" recently. 

 

But that did not happen on this topic! 

 

In a capistalist world, ppl have the right to point linux's market share as a reason to not provide support. 

I dont agree, but its not a "rude" argument to make. 

 

I will say it again. 

There are a allot valid reasons to not play this game. 

I dont currently play it. 

 

But dont use this topic as a lame excuse... 

No one will stop playing a game because of writen stuff in a forum. 

 

And yes, i "dare" call your "reason" BS. Because it is BS and i got eyes to read.. 

 

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DU runs like shit on medium range machines natively. Any kind of emulation etc will bring the performance to "unplayable".

That and you need to reverse engineer that anti-cheat thingy to disable it, can be done but I believe it breaks the EULA.

I am not against Linux, I use it since kernel 2.2 and still don't see any other OS on the horizon that can replace it for me but it's not a gaming platform it's a workstation.

Some games do run better on Linux than they do on Windows etc(like KSP) but not the "early access" "barely working" "most likely tech PoC" games so I don't think anyone should bother at this stage.

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I’m generally OS agnostic and run a multitude of OSes at my business place but I do find that each OS is more suited to different tasks. 
 

For me, though, Macs are for work, including design, photo and vid editing and programming  my PCs are game boxes and run my VR headsets. Of course, all my server and storage needs are built and run on Linux. 
 

I couldn’t imagine changing it or losing any of them.  

No windows? No VR.
No Macs? Relearning everything again. 
No SE Linux? Have to use a more insecure and heavy OS to manage my storage and websites. Eww. 

 

I would never try to do AAA gaming on a Mac or Linux. 
 

nor would I want to wrestle with Windows and the plethora of monitors for photo editing since I have used Macs and their 1.8 gamma is ingrained into my soul. LOL. 

 

I would also not want to run a website on a Windows box or crowbar modern  versions of standard software like PHP and Python onto the highly modified semi-open source stack of a Mac. The thing would likely implode. 

we are so lucky to live in a world with not one but THREE world class OSes that are all very, very good at what they do best just like any decent tool.

 

conversely, best not try to cut with a screwdriver or hammer with a spoon.  

 

 

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12 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

No windows? No VR.

 

There no technical reason for this to happen. 

Linux kernel is capable of supporting any VR software or driver. 

 

The reason is how capitalism works facing a monopoly. 

 

So my question is, how long should governments allow for this unchallenged monopoly to continue.. 

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1 hour ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

There no technical reason for this to happen. 

Linux kernel is capable of supporting any VR software or driver. 

 

The reason is how capitalism works facing a monopoly. 

 

So my question is, how long should governments allow for this unchallenged monopoly to continue.. 

 

like I said. No windows no VR. 

 

 

 

——

>>> @GraXXoR you could move your mac's to windows and save the free mac license

 

@Kurosawa why, though? That makes no sense at all.  Why run windows on a Mac when a PC is cheaper and more powerful?  Why save a “free” license? And do what with that license? It’s limited to running only on Apple original hardware anyway. 

am I missing something obvious?

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14 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

THREE world class OSes

Actually there are a lot more.

 

Those 3 are "Generalistic OS", but you are missing OpenBSD(and its brothers). It has a working desktop environment  and most (linux) office tools work there.

 

Then you got a lot of purpose specific Os but also used worldwide. like:

Android.

(what ever iphone uses)

vmworks

HarmonyOS

 

 

 

While the last group was meant to serve a specific platform/function, the first group was designed to be generalist.

 

14 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I would never try to do AAA gaming on a Mac or Linux. 
 

nor would I want to wrestle with Windows and the plethora of monitors for photo editing since I have used Macs and their 1.8 gamma is ingrained into my soul. LOL. 

 

I would also not want to run a website on a Windows box or crowbar modern  versions of standard software like PHP and Python onto the highly modified semi-open source stack of a Mac. The thing would likely implode. 

 

As a user, understanding reality, we are all forced to make these choices.

 

But it is not by design.

It's because of a crappy 30 years old monopoly.

 

If software and drivers producers dedicated the same amount of time to Linux and MAC that they dedicate to Windows, no one, in their right mind would be using windows, as it is.

 

Why the hell, EVERY program you try to run requires administration elevation to install? How is this safe?

Why is there no package manager on Windows? Why, after 30 years of downloading Trojans, do we still have to go find a website to download software?

Why are we forced to have Cortana and a bunch of new publicity stuff enabled every time Windows updates?

 

A Windows user has no real control over their computer. We have to assume MS will take care of it. And that assumption comes at the cost of privacy and security level.

 

The only reason we still use this crap is because that's what everyone else uses, makes tutorials about and makes software for.

It's a bad product forced to us by its monopoly position.

It's the exact reason why anti monopoly laws exist.

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