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NQ suggests buffing engines, your thoughts?


ELX987

NQ engines buff suggestions: your take  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. should engines be buffed?

    • yes
      62
    • no
      28
    • im not sure
      7
  2. 2. what updates would greatly effect this change, in your opinion

    • energy management
      52
    • PVP revamp
      14
    • new ship parts (XL cores, XL atmospheric engines, XL fuel tanks, etc)
      31
  3. 3. do you think engines will get buffed, like it or not

    • yes
      26
    • no
      25
    • wait and see
      46


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We must remember that engine power and ability transport cargo is only a small fragment in this complex game.

How ever it is related to many things and has effect into those other game-play loops.

 

Ships are the backbone for our logistics.

Economy, building, pvp, prospecting, mining, industry,  trading, warfare and many other features are dependent of logistics and ability to move ore, products, elements. voxels, guns ammo and other ships.

 

If this backbone (ships) is under-powered whole ecosystem is suffering.

Under-powered engines leads players to search exploits and other solutions to move materials, in a non intended ways.

 

And still engine power such a small fragment of the big picture and game-play.

 

Also we need to remember that real-world examples hardly apply. This is not a simulator for rocket-science of 2021 nor this is Filgth simulator from same year.

 

Examples from SCIFI movies may apply much better.

 

How much cargo and engine power Serenity, Rocinante or Enterprise may have.

 

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55 minutes ago, Nokens said:

Current aircrafts can fly a few hundred tons (boeing 747 can fly 400 tons, if google is right)

Falcon 9 can get 22 tons to orbit according to space x website

 

I know it is the future, but maybe we shouldn't get to trivialize transporting 3KT Cargo from planets to planets with a single ship

 

I believe we need better rockets, specialized to get heavy cargo to orbit => we would have specialized cargo ship for surface to orbit and then a specialized space cargo would take it from there.

Hover engines should be the preferred way to move heavy cargo in atmo

Atmo engine should be used for small cargo / passenger.

 

 

 

No problem, then either reduce container size or reduce weight of Ores.

Just, make it ballanced. 

Ever seen cargo space of a boeing? its huge. Compared to the engines. 

Here we have 1 container supported by a wall of engines.

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Already some good points and discussion here based off of a Discord message from a NQ employee. Guess what's missing in the discussion here (not surprising, but still)?

 

Needless to say anything good said here will likely end up with all the other good and great ideas and suggestions over the last few years..

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Have the simple option of turning a certain group of engines on/off, is much more important to me.

That way I can like, have 4 engines. Turn on only 2 for normal speed/power, turn on all 4 for more speed power when needed/wanted.

 

And work on simple hovers too! So we can have more 'landbased vehicles'.

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We do need an engine buff and a wing buff and yes they need to be limited to a specific amount of each element.  it does not matter to me how they do this power or whatever.     If you build a Small core ship and it weighs 135t  to effectively get that ship off Ali  you need 1 Large  military engine!!!    This is a Small ship with zero cargo does anyone else see a problem here ?  If  you put 6 M engines on it it would weigh more. its pointless to use any other engine but large. 

my suggestions 

  • Limit engines per core
  • Buff engines X6 starting with S because as they should be viable for a S core ship. 
  • Buff wings
  • Buff Adjusters
  •  XL Atmo engines
  •  XL adjusters
  •  L wings 

This is a game and not real life its also supposed to be in the future so how about adding some of the following suggestions. 

  • Ion Cannons 
  • Fusion Drives
  • Hybrid engines
  • Teleporters 
  • cross core linking! 
  • Actual good armor material (Duranium) something that is made instead of raw gold silver. 


 

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This makes me return to one of my old grievances with this game.

From a logical and logistical perspective the flying technology in DU does not justify a society where everything flies. Meaning the would have to be something much more efficient for that to make sense.

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8 hours ago, Pacman-1 said:

I think they should hard cap the maximum of cargo per ship otherwise people will just ducktape as much cargo containers as they can to engines.

 

As astutely mentioned in this thread, a non trivial physics engine would see to this... Nothing more annoying to me than a naïve and abitrary cap on numbers... Like the encumberance systems in many 1990s RPGs.. And ironically 2077 Cyberpunk...  Completely fine until the encumberance limit is reached and then suddenly oof:

Carrying 10kg? completely fine can longjump 15 feet.   Carrying 50kg? still fine... can longjump 15ft... Carrying 100kg? fine, can still longjump exactly 15 feet without apparent effort... Carrying 101kg?  Nope can now barely even move. Have to eat that single ration to reduce your carry back down to 100kg.

 

stupid systems make stupid games.

 

If DU actually implemented proper stress and strain and more involved physics we'd not only see an end to walls of engines creating impossibly high thrust by crushing everything in front of it, but also those endless needle towers stretching 4km into Alioth's stratosphere would all come crashing down.

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10 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

If DU actually implemented proper stress and strain and more involved physics we'd not only see an end to walls of engines creating impossibly high thrust by crushing everything in front of it, but also those endless needle towers stretching 4km into Alioth's stratosphere would all come crashing down.

 

Completely agree, but that is the type of functionality that has to been planned for ahead of time and implemented at the core of the game.

Key word here being "planned for ahead of time"... sigh..  It is frustrating how old many aspects of this so called next gen mmo is.

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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

 

Completely agree, but that is the type of functionality that has to been planned for ahead of time and implemented at the core of the game.

Key word here being "planned for ahead of time"... sigh..  It is frustrating how old many aspects of this so called next gen mmo is.

Not calling you out here but I have seen so many posts like this.   Do all the people asking for this type of thing realize that only the hard core players are still in the game ?   Then There is even a smaller subset of the hardcore left in the game want this type of thing ?  

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Just like we currently have 2 items required, the fuel tank and the engine, add a third item of signinficant mass and size (but not placement restriction/obstruction).

That new items increases engine thrust by a large amount and could have other modifiers (like there are currently different engines).

That way you are shifting the currently limiting factor, space in the back of the craft, to just generally lift and size.

Now a craft that used to have 40 engines in the back only needs 15, but it also needs an engine room with the new items inside (anywhere on the craft), which are as big as a few XL containers. Less engines on the outside, but still no ability to "just spam" the now stronger engine in a wall on the back, as this would require more of the new item. It also means no hard limit.

In addition of course, finally give us L wings etc.

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Personally I dont care for PvP anymore. Its mainly ship building and building structures that keep me here.

 

What I dont get is that we have XL parts but still are missing XL or even L parts for a ton of things like wings (M) vs Stabilizers (L) vs Ailerons (M) for instance. Personally I dont get why they had to go and make new styles of the parts when they could have litterally went and just scaled up the sizes of the parts to be the exact same thing just bigger and just had a round, square, rectangle version of that part that is exactly the same from XS-XL+.

 

The main thing here is engines are fine and if you dont have enough you probably arent using the Rare Military grade versions. Still with that said it would be nice if NQ actually made parts to scale with the sizes of the cores so that you just needed a single engine even if its an L that is 2-3 stories tall but can move whatever is in that core vs being forced to use 50 L atmo engines to do the same thing. As always their short sighted nature of modular building is coming back it bite them in the ass again thanks to JC.

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7 hours ago, Fembot68 said:

Not calling you out here but I have seen so many posts like this.   Do all the people asking for this type of thing realize that only the hard core players are still in the game ?   Then There is even a smaller subset of the hardcore left in the game want this type of thing ?  

Not sure I follow. This game is already heavily based on physics for flight, so it would be normal to expect the same behavior for other parts of the game. Don't get me wrong, I think DU is way, way to grindy at the moment, but consistency in the game loop is also very important.

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On 5/19/2021 at 6:44 AM, Bozarius said:

No problem, then either reduce container size or reduce weight of Ores.

Just, make it ballanced. 

Ever seen cargo space of a boeing? its huge. Compared to the engines. 

Here we have 1 container supported by a wall of engines.

I am not sure how many people have even calculated this but,  if I refine 100L of hema the result of this weighs more than the original 100L did.   fixing ores  and materials to not weigh so much might be a viable solution.     When Titanium weighs more than concrete  something is wrong lol. 

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On 5/19/2021 at 10:47 AM, Nokens said:

I know it is the future, but maybe we shouldn't get to trivialize transporting 3KT Cargo from planets to planets with a single ship

In the future the laws pf physics still apply and will not have changed.

 

 

On 5/19/2021 at 11:44 AM, Bozarius said:

Ever seen cargo space of a boeing? its huge. Compared to the engines. 

Here we have 1 container supported by a wall of engines.

 Volume is not a factor here, mass is (and thrust).

 

I's day NQ should balance engines not so much by increasing thrust but by decreasing mass and by introducing power management. A lighter engine with the same amount of thrust can support more mass for cargo, power management would control the amount of thrust you can apply at any given time.

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I would love to see a temporary overdrive on engines. 

Like a system that would temporarily(5-10 secs) make your engines preform above 100%. 

 

Maybe with some kind of consequence. 

 

That way ppl could activate the boost at atmo exit, or at some important pvp maneuver. 

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15 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

I would love to see a temporary overdrive on engines. 

Like a system that would temporarily(5-10 secs) make your engines preform above 100%.

The NQ way of doing this was rockets.

I.e. they added even more time-gating elements that adds mostly unused weight during normal flight and makes your constructs look ugly.

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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

The NQ way of doing this was rockets.

I.e. they added even more time-gating elements that adds mostly unused weight during normal flight and makes your constructs look ugly.

Yea. The way rockets are implemented is definitely a mistake....
Most transport rockets can be active for 2 to 10 minutes. Yet NQ decided to have 5 second rockets....

RL rockets use very inexpensive fuel compared to ion engines. Yet NQ decided to make rocket fuel the most expensive.

Rocket engines are cheaper to manufacture ( in relation to its thrust) than ion engines. Yet NQ decided to make them a premium item....

To me, rockets should have longer burn times, lower thrust and very cheap fuel.
Making rockets occupy the role of a "work in all environments but very inefficient" engine.

Instead of a premium engine that 95% of the players won't use.

Then give a small 120% thrust window to regular engines.
 

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The fact that L rockets are second highest tier behind antigravity (they are Tier 4) says a lot about NQ’s science credentials. 
 

NQ be like: programming games is hard... it’s like rocket science....

 

erm... Tier 4 hard?

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2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

To me, rockets should have longer burn times, lower thrust and very cheap fuel.

A sci-fi game should at the very least have technology as efficient as we have in RL.

Take for example JATO rockets, which are solid fuel rockets used for takeoff assist. No huge tanks or expensive fuel required, just small and cheap single use rockets that you strap on and replace after use.

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/US_Navy_030324-N-1539M-001_Fat_Albert%2C_a_U.S._Marine_Corps_C-130_Hercules_assigned_to_the_Navy%27s_Flight_Demonstration_Team%2C_Blue_Angels_ignites_its_Jet_Assisted_Take_Off_%28JATO%29_bottles_on_take-off.jpg

 

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The rocket discussion is interesting as it clearly depends on what kind of rockets we are talking about.

 

The rockets that put things into space are massive, use enormous amounts of fuel and are hugely expensive. So, if that is your view of a rocket - for getting into space - then yeah they are expensive and chew fuel like it is going out of fashion. Saying that it is not really advanced technology per-se so it likely should not be top tier technology but should deliver the thrust needed to put things in orbit at a fuel cost.

 

Ion engines n the other hand should be high tech but likely a lot less thrust. Space propulsion also requires you to throw some mass in the opposite direction that you want to travel - so that should add another interesting twist. Then, of course, we have solar sails - but sadly we don't have them in game.

 

As to take-off assist, sur you could have disposable rockets but it would be much easier just to add an afterburn capability to the atmospheric engines. More thrust, a lot more fuel.

 

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7 minutes ago, Cheith said:

The rockets that put things into space are massive, use enormous amounts of fuel and are hugely expensive

But never more expensive than ion fuel.

Rocket fuel should be H2 + O2 or CH4 + O2, Basically the most common elements in the universe. While ion fuel requires heavier and much rarer elements.

 

If a rocket tank has 1000 L inside and an Ion tank has 1000L inside, then the rocket fuel should be 100 times cheaper than Ion fuel.

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