Has productivity increased now that JC has stepped down?

[Shaman]

Has productivity increased now that JC has stepped down from CEO? It's hard to tell now since they are doing a lot of backend changes, but I would imagine under a new investor they would want to speed things up a little.

[blazemonger]

There is no indication of a change in pace. In fact, we have yet to see/hear anything that confirms the company will be able top continue. All they have done is remove the end of 2021 release data from the roadmap and change it to "sometime halfway 2022" as a target, so they have not actually committed to anything. The recent triple blogpost was just a pacifier IMO and really did not tell us anything substantial at all. It was just another round of posts trying to take some pressure off but by now the user base has shrunk to a point where this just flies by and no one really cares or notices.

 

A release in about a year from now is still hopelessly optimistic to be honest, seeing the current state of the game. I can't see a polished release ready product within the next two years and NQ just continuing their wet finger timeframes kind of tells me that as of now they really do not know what will happen and there is no real news about whether there will be a company by the end of the year.. But that is just my view on this and as always YMMV

 

In a month, many players of the pewpew variety will depart for SB. That will pretty much leave the builders and designers and many of those are (alpha) backers so there is no revenue from those at all.

[GraXXoR]

For a while there at the beginning of the year, it did seem that there were more patches coming through with more regularity, and even more communication and engagement from the community members at NQ. But that seems to have just been a mirage. 

 

After the 0.24 patch was castrated, we've essentially received nothing apart from a few minor emergency patch-patches. That's it. the end...

Basically siince December (nearly 6 months ago) we have received:  slightly altered jetpack, org wallets and a texture pack.

Think about that: a jetpack change, org wallets and some purchased textures... an entire company... half a year and that is all they have produced and released.
 

 

[SirJohn85]

1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

After the 0.24 patch was castrated, we've essentially received nothing apart from a few minor emergency patch-patches. That's it. the end...

Basically siince December (nearly 6 months ago) we have received:  slightly altered jetpack, org wallets and a texture pack.

Think about that: a jetpack change, org wallets and some purchased textures... an entire company... half a year and that is all they have produced and released.
 

 

 

You all do it on purpose, don't you? The trees are also worth mentioning. You really want to keep the list even smaller than it is..

This reminds me of my meme from 27 February, which I linked to below. Gosh, how time flies. 

 

 

 

 

[Lethys]

NQ posted some devblogs with no real meaning and no real new info nor did they change anything in their communication with the community but hey........

 

 

"WE'VE HEARD YOU"

 

From that hilarious post:

 

Quote

We also want to reassure you that the mission system is not the only answer to offering more varied ways to earn revenue in Dual Universe. Things like asteroid mining and mining units will be introduced in the next few months

 

Some months later this

 

Quote

In consideration of feedback we received from players who explored the Mission System on our test server, we have decided to postpone its release to a future phase of 0.24

 

Now they don't even talk about that "phase 2 0.24" Update anymore but only about 0.25:

 

Quote

Another way for players to earn quanta is the previously-announced Mission System, coming in version 0.25

 

So......guess you still have to wait "some more weeks/months" to get that mission system and asteroid mining, but after that - pvp will be reworked..

 

Quote

Once we’ve fixed the main gameplay loops, this will be the next thing we’ll tackle

 

 

So I really don't know why ppl accuse NQ of not communicating or them giving confusing statements which they don't clarify later......

 

but hey, I guess implementing some bought texture pack, some jetpack changes and a really bad and not well thought out wallet mechanic (is it still only bound to 2 rights? so everyone who can sell for the org can also buy for it? - if so, that's really, REALLY stupid) is all you get for now from DU.

 

And you are worried about progress? I would be worried about quality

[joaocordeiro]

Lol, 

You guys truly love JC. 

[CptLoRes]

10 hours ago, Shaman said:

Has productivity increased now that JC has stepped down from CEO?

 

No.

[Lethys]

 

"wait for missions with update 0.24"

"oh wait, we can't deliver them with 0.24 PART 1, but we will deliver them with some other part"

no part 2 was ever done

"we will deploy 0.25, as with the 0.24 incrementally"

 

THIS is why ppl dont trust you NQ. this is why many think you lie. this is why you're ridiculed and shit on

 

COMMUNICATE with your remaining ppl. TELL them ffs. Clearly, you learned nothing

[le_souriceau]

8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

In a month, many players of the pewpew variety will depart for SB. That will pretty much leave the builders and designers and many of those are (alpha) backers so there is no revenue from those at all.

 

Why only pewpew? There is stuff beyond pure instance scale PvP dimension.

 

Shipbuilding in SB objectivly much deeper and interesting from functionality/interactivity/immersion standpoint, promising capital ship mechanics with really large ships (end game for large groups). Industry planned to be again with focus on interacitivity/engineering challenge (conveyor belts with programmable robot arms etc).  Some exploration/expedition elements (hostile enviroments). There will be obviously more healthy population (at least -- initialy), so politics and social/diplomacy things -- at least on level of average MMO with factions/clans wars.

 

Granted, SB have lesser scale (ambition), then DU and quasi-one shard, there is still fun with voxels vs premade parts, but competition actualy more complex, then simplified pewpew against so called civilization building. With all this I still hestitant to super hyping SB, because its jumping from one rough Alpha to another bit less rough one, with own share of problems. There will be people dissapointed about SB too. 

 

But what is fore sure -- FrozenByte seems to be leagues ahead more responsable with what they doing and communicative with players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SirJohn85]

1 hour ago, Lethys said:

 

"wait for missions with update 0.24"

"oh wait, we can't deliver them with 0.24 PART 1, but we will deliver them with some other part"

no part 2 was ever done

"we will deploy 0.25, as with the 0.24 incrementally"

 

THIS is why ppl dont trust you NQ. this is why many think you lie. this is why you're ridiculed and shit on

 

COMMUNICATE with your remaining ppl. TELL them ffs. Clearly, you learned nothing

 

"Push mission system to 0.24 patch, make it part 1, later say it comes with 0.25 and it comes later again."

- My thoughts when I read the news. Thank you that I'm probably not the only one who thinks this way. 

 

I think we might just be playing patch roulette, when mission system comes. That seems to be more predictable.

[CptLoRes]

The only way this extended delay would make any sense, would be if they decided to include some of the more advanced mission types like NPC missions etc.

But knowing NQ and despite the long delay. This will probably be some 'early' version of the mission planner with hauling missions only. And the 'early' part of the mission system, like with PvP will remain a long, long time.

[XKentX]

1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

The only way this extended delay would make any sense, would be if they decided to include some of the more advanced mission types like NPC missions etc.

But knowing NQ and despite the long delay. This will probably be some 'early' version of the mission planner with hauling missions only. And the 'early' part of the mission system, like with PvP will remain a long, long time.

there will be no missions at all

[Paralen]

13 hours ago, Shaman said:

Has productivity increased now that JC has stepped down from CEO? It's hard to tell now since they are doing a lot of backend changes, but I would imagine under a new investor they would want to speed things up a little.

I think it's too soon for us to see the change. Changes like this take time and even if they wanted to do a major transformation of their workflow or hire new people, it would probably take months before we can see any significant results.
IMHO there's been an improvement in communication this year, but it's still too soon to say if this change is good or not.

[CoyoteNZ]

I feel there is a improvement in communication since JC got ‘shifted’ to a new role.

 

A lot of people are upset (or laughing) that the mission system hasn’t arrived on live yet. A quick question, of those people have any of you tried it out on PTS and thought to yourself this is ready to go live?

 

When there is a mess up which advantages one group for a while, like the duplicates, or the cheap schematics everybody is in a huge uproar. Maybe they have listened to us and are trying to not enter such a big game changer until it is closer to right?

[Burble]

I doubt very much if there is even a development team left. Even with zero guidance or incentive a group of coders and concept designers would have come up with more than we have seen since December. The game now is to release previously shelved, low importance content at a fast enough rate to keep capturing a few new subscribers. But it's obvious that no one is doing any new work at all.

All it took was to quit the game to see things more clearly. At this point my only honourable move is to say I was wrong, foolish, smitten by the charm of my own fantasy of what the game could be. You guys were very much right.

This is a very high profile abandonware project from all I can tell now.

 

[Lethys]

12 hours ago, CoyoteNZ said:

A lot of people are upset (or laughing) that the mission system hasn’t arrived on live yet. A quick question, of those people have any of you tried it out on PTS and thought to yourself this is ready to go live?

 

When there is a mess up which advantages one group for a while, like the duplicates, or the cheap schematics everybody is in a huge uproar. Maybe they have listened to us and are trying to not enter such a big game changer until it is closer to right?

this is not the point why I laughed, at all

 

the point is they told us "mission system will be in 0.24"

 

then they told us "mission system will be in 0.24, but in a later phase of the update" this NEVER happend and that "phase 2" of the update NEVER was communicated, nor was the mission system ever implemented an NO reason was given whatsoever

 

now they tell us "mission system will be in 0.25, but in a later phase of the update because we do this just as update 0.24"

and THAT is laughable.

 

such updates are always incrementally updated to 0.24.3 / 0.24.5 / whatever, so no reason to explicitly state that "an update is incrementelly worked upon". That's a given.

 

Now you could argue ofc, that regardless what they do (tell us a timeframe or don't tell us a timeframe), there will always be ppl who dislike either. True. But that is ALSO not the reason why ppl ridicule NQ and that is exactly what they NEVER understood. It doesn't matter if they need more time to complete a feature to make it not exploitable and stable and that is not why I make fun of them

 

It's about communication.

 

"We plan on releasing Missions with update 0.24"

 

BEFORE 0.24 hits

"We're sorry, we ran in a problem X in the mission system. We have tried Y but to no avail. Now we just deployed an update to PTS with solution Z to test for the ppl who want to"

 

0.24 hits, no mission system - all good. because it was communicated

"We aim the mission system to be in 0.25, but the problem X we encountered is still there (insert a litte info about what and how smth is wrong) and solution Z didn't really improve things"

 

BEFORE 0.25 hits

"Problem X is solved but X.1 occured *insert description*, so we might not be able to get the mission system in 0.25"

 

something like this.

 

And NO, they don't need to do that for every little stupid bug and every little shitty fuckup. Those happen and aren't really a big deal to anyone. But they should COMMUNICATE where communication is due - like when a completely new mechanic hits the live server which MANY ppl waited for (I still don't see any benefit from that mechanic in the current state, but that's another topic) or when ppl are asking for info on LONG STANDING problems with DU.

[GraXXoR]

10 hours ago, Burble said:

This is a very high profile abandonware project from all I can tell now.

 

 

Hardly high profile, mate. every time I have ever uttered the phrase Dual Universe, I've been met with the question-mark-dude meme. Basically nobody knows about this game, evidenced by the number of streamer video views (in the low ks or 10s of ks) and anything other than the "release" trailer in April 2020 which admittedly did get over 1kk views after a shotgun(?) article.  

 

There was a brief period last year when it looked like the game might actually become something.

[Burble]

1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

 

Hardly high profile, mate. every time I have ever uttered the phrase Dual Universe, I've been met with the question-mark-dude meme. Basically nobody knows about this game, evidenced by the number of streamer video views (in the low ks or 10s of ks) and anything other than the "release" trailer in April 2020 which admittedly did get over 1kk views after a shotgun(?) article.  

 

There was a brief period last year when it looked like the game might actually become something.

 

Fair point there. I remember seeing youtube and other social media advertising a while back and thinking DU was getting to the main stage. Not so much now.

[Bazzy_505]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:49 PM, Burble said:

 

Fair point there. I remember seeing youtube and other social media advertising a while back and thinking DU was getting to the main stage. Not so much now.

 

There was a fair bit of positive buzz going about DU sometime in 2018 when they released a new batch of videos, it even got covered by a few, what you can call mainstream, gaming portals, but since NQ had nothing more to stoke the fire with, it quickly fizzled out and fell back to obscurity by the end of the year.

After that it has gotten a few mentions when paid beta started, but no frontpage coverage.   

[CoyoteNZ]

On 5/22/2021 at 8:24 AM, Bazzy_505 said:

After that it has gotten a few mentions when paid beta started, but no frontpage coverage. 

It got front page coverage when somebody stole parts of the market because NQ messed up their RDMS just a week after posting a message saying it is your fault, and not a violation stealing stuff if you mess up your RDMS.

 

It’s not that they messed up, but how they handled it. I think that actually made it to some mainstream media, not just gaming media. 

[GraXXoR]

10 hours ago, CoyoteNZ said:

It got front page coverage when somebody stole parts of the market because NQ messed up their RDMS just a week after posting a message saying it is your fault, and not a violation stealing stuff if you mess up your RDMS.

 

It’s not that they messed up, but how they handled it. I think that actually made it to some mainstream media, not just gaming media. 

Wow! Who covered them? That must have been seriously cringey for the devs to read. 
 

oof. 

[Triopalite]

Unfortunately, but what I believe is happening now is.. they're thinking of an exit strategy..

[HangerHangar]

Yeah it’s all exit strategy with Starbase releasing next month.

 

though they’re not going to be able find any buyers/leasees for their software stack.   Even the original devs can’t keep massive numbers of item duplication and access violation bugs out of their own game. Likewise they aren’t really using authoritative servers (which would be a selling point compared to SB) considering how many times I’ve seen other’s walking on air/in ground because they’ve had a different cache version.  And their stack is absurdly resource hungry even after an hour on Thadis you’re still going to sit at 5MB/S transfer, where most publishers will essentially demand 100KB/S or so for a typical area.

[Bazzy_505]

7 hours ago, HangerHangar said:

Yeah it’s all exit strategy with Starbase releasing next month.

 

though they’re not going to be able find any buyers/leasees for their software stack.   Even the original devs can’t keep massive numbers of item duplication and access violation bugs out of their own game. Likewise they aren’t really using authoritative servers (which would be a selling point compared to SB) considering how many times I’ve seen other’s walking on air/in ground because they’ve had a different cache version.  And their stack is absurdly resource hungry even after an hour on Thadis you’re still going to sit at 5MB/S transfer, where most publishers will essentially demand 100KB/S or so for a typical area.

 

While Starbase does a few things really well, they have their own technical can of worms they have yet to address. I do wish Starbase a long and happy life, they are very likely to bleed users faster than they gain new ones. In fact quite a few starbase playes were eyeing DU as possible alternative before NQ shot themselves in both of their feet with all that 0.24+ ish nonsense.

 

Most likely mid term effect of both SB and DU will be that no producer will want to touch a voxel based online project for quite a few years to come. Not that there was great interest from publishers to begin with. Esp not after the spectacular failure of Landmark/EQN.  

 

You are completely spot on about the insane size of strings passsed between client and server for DU.  Now that said 100KB/S is not a realistic figure for any voxel implementation, even in the most rudimentary implementation at least 12bytes for positional data in voxel grid and at minimum at 12bytes for surface normals, material type/color. And we're still talking about plain box voxel, now you need to implement some sort of transform, let's say we'll go with a variation index on of predermined transforms 1byte ( which is not that great but gives us a workable 256 possible predermined transform variations), you'll end up with 25bytes per voxel.  

 

  Let's say for surface 256x256 voxels (like a base of M  construct) 1 voxel deep you'll end up with  roughly 1.5mb to stream. Now even on ground you realistically need at least 2x as much even  with modestly sized viewport, that brings you little over 3mb, excluding your ship, other flying garbage around you and all those fancy space elevators and prtocol overhead ( let's say UDP with MTU at 1500,  max packet size 1518bytes -ethernet frame- IP header -UDP header gives you 1472 available for actual data (46bytes overhead)

 

Not defending NQ, just want to give you an idea of the size of dataset voxel engines work with.  

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Bazzy_505
typo

[le_souriceau]

11 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

While Starbase does a few things really well, they have their own technical can of worms they have yet to address. I do wish Starbase a long and happy life, they are very likely to bleed users faster than they gain new ones. In fact quite a few starbase playes were eyeing DU as possible alternative before NQ shot themselves in both of their feet with all that 0.24+ ish nonsense.

 

Most likely mid term effect of both SB and DU will be that no producer will want to touch a voxel based online project for quite a few years to come. Not that there was great interest from publishers to begin with. Esp not after the spectacular failure of Landmark/EQN.  

 

I think there are 3 keys here both for DU and SB and wider voxel-sandbox "genre" to be viable:

 

1) Reliably jumping beyond intitial "fun to experiment" stage and providing wide demography players with more or less engaging and sustainable "end-game" loops, obviously mostly of PvP manner; but some PvE not bad too.

2) Maintaining game reasonably playable on technical level at same time; especialy for combat.

3) Not focusing too much on "builders"; in short -- they convenient, but demographicly not deciding.

 

This last part I see as gravest mistakes of NQ. If anything, such games need more destruction. Because other way around, most people leave anyway under any pretense (hello 0.23), because its fundamentaly boring after X hours.