Ship Building - Need some info and help

[Bozarius]

Hi All,

 

Since 2 months playing this game. Lots of fun, lots of mining 
I run into some questions that i simply cant seem to find the answer too. 

 

Mainly about shipbuilding and finding the extremes.

I have been trying to increasingly build more fast and durable ships. But i cannot seem to figure out the mechanics and calculations behind it. 

I understand the concept of cross section, lift, thrust etc.

 

I have ships able to fly 2000+ consistant in atmo without getting damage. 

 

What i struggle with: How to calculate where is the limits. How to know what ships can sustain what speeds.

More improtantly. Do honeycomb protect against it or not.

It seems very inconsistant. 

 

Example: a 20M3 frontal ship will start to glow orange at 1750 km/h, a 130M3 at 1100 km/h,  a make a 1M3 small. But get a measily 1800 km/h. 

 

While honeycomb voxels prevent fall / impact damage and provide armor in PVP.

I have a hard time checking to see how they help or not help with high speeds / re-entry. 

Structural damage to components seems very random and unpredictable. 

 

Any info on this would be greatly appriciated.

 

Thanks
Boz

 

[Physics]

To my understanding types of voxel does not assist with high speed burns and does not assist with impact damage calculations. 
 

however impact damage calculation works like an invisible expanding sphere hurting any elements it catches starting at the point of impact. Only element that directly effects the sphere growth calculation is landing gears (if they are the point of origin). 
 

What makes me wonder and worth testing is burn damage may work the same way. If you have a large distance from the front cross section Voxel and your elements (including front adjusters) there is a chance you could do burn damage but have your elements further away allowing you to push that tiny bit harder. 

[Bozarius]

IT can be possible. It just not seem always to make sense.

There are times things get damaged or broken in a way that makes sense, eg. sticking out, front of ship.
At other times something inside or complete back will break. 

 

It is really hard to figure out. Sometimes it seems to follow all logically. Other times it seems totally random. 

different parts getting different damage on simular test flights. 

 

I have done re-entry at 5500+ KM/H with only 6 HP damage to 1 Retro Rocket.

I cant find the logic. Even with or without voxel. The damage done. How much and Where. Seems totally random.

 

But its interresting and i will test this  Thanks

 

 

[Bazzy_505]

codeword of the day is air-resistance (aka drag).

Which elements get damaged on chuck norris re-entries are affected by angle of attack, current trajectory, rotation of ship surfaces in relation to current movement momentum.

 

let's say you've been applying trust straight with -20 deg nose down  nad cut thrust and rotate ship to the 10deg to right just before htting atmo you'll burn off  adjustor on left side of  nose and top side of left wing ( always extremities on the most out of misaligned axis in relation to trajectory) 

 

[Bozarius]

Bazzy, it is not always like this.

 

I have ships going on altitude hold in a straight line. not touching any controlls or any up / down, left / right movement. 

Having break the fuel tank which is in the dead center of the vessel completely incased in voxels. 

 

Most times, the damage seems to go indeed to parts on edges and sticking out. However, not always. Sometimes they are really random.

 

While i understand all mechinacs behind it. Cross Sections, Thrust, Drag, Break.  etc.

The one thing i cant find out. Is how to protect. If it is indeed possible? 

 

How the damage is done.

 

Is it like above. A sphere spreading outwards? Does it do something else?   Do voxels provide any protection? Is placement affecting? 

 

I cant find a logic in the damage being done. 

 

[Bazzy_505]

From what i can tell from my experience with ships i designed, the odd damage to tanks and such dissapeared as long i had an air gap between tank and voxel skin of the ship. Placing them near center of gravity seems to be a plus and has quite a few additional benefits when it comes to handling.

 

Also the damage calculation seems rather simplistic so it seems it's realistically just a few impact vectors calculated at the front the construct, and the inconsistencies are mostly due to float variables used instead of double variables.  float has 23 bits of significand, 8 bits of exponent, and 1 sign bit coversely double has 52 bits of significand, 11 bits of exponent, and 1 sign bit.

calculations with doubles are twice as accurate, but also much much slower, and than there's question of what size is the actual grid on which these calculations are performed. You can see the occasinal drift even when hand placing voxels when the construct you're working on is sitting at an angle.

 

That said i don't see voxels soaking any damage, rather they affect where at what angle the impact happens. 

I'm personally on the "brakes are pussies, real men flare up 30m from the ground" sides of things, and i've noticed i prevented most of the damage to front adjustors by tapering edges of the nose. 

 

 

 

 

[Bozarius]

Ok, thanks for that info. I will do some experimenting. 
 

We already tried to "move"  the point of impact by extending Voxels forward.

Not always seems to adhere to logic. I will try to spacing and tapering. 

 

[GraXXoR]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:55 PM, Physics said:

To my understanding types of voxel does not assist with high speed burns and does not assist with impact damage calculations. 
 

however impact damage calculation works like an invisible expanding sphere hurting any elements it catches starting at the point of impact. Only element that directly effects the sphere growth calculation is landing gears (if they are the point of origin). 
 

What makes me wonder and worth testing is burn damage may work the same way. If you have a large distance from the front cross section Voxel and your elements (including front adjusters) there is a chance you could do burn damage but have your elements further away allowing you to push that tiny bit harder. 

 

I have tested this... I have things on the rear of my ship catch fire as well as the front. I've had my a rear space engine burn out on reentry but the front wings were fine....

[joaocordeiro]

I wonder how cross-section is calculated.
Like imagine a small ship with 8 by 8 cross-section. If we offset the entire ship to an edge of the build cube will it still be 8 by 8 cross-section?

Its cross-section/periphery of the ship(used for burn calculations) calculated from center of the build cube? Or from the core? Or from the center of mass?

[Bozarius]

No the place is not affecting the cross section.

 

It just looks front to back through the whole build cube. Any cube occupied is added. 

 

If cubes are behind each other, not.

 

No matter if center or not. Floating parts. If the element is all the way in front or totally back

[Bozarius]

1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

 

I have tested this... I have things on the rear of my ship catch fire as well as the front. I've had my a rear space engine burn out on reentry but the front wings were fine....

Well can be the engine sticks out.

Place of component is can be totally back if it is sticking outside of front section.

 

But yes, i encounter also totally random dmg. Even inside the ship.

[GraXXoR]

1 hour ago, Bozarius said:

Well can be the engine sticks out.

Place of component is can be totally back if it is sticking outside of front section.

 

But yes, i encounter also totally random dmg. Even inside the ship.

 

Damn, run out of heart reacts for today...

Believe me, I am the master of minimising cross section: My daily driver is called the "SkySausage." ? 

[Bazzy_505]

21 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

 

Damn, run out of heart reacts for today...

Believe me, I am the master of minimising cross section: My daily driver is called the "SkySausage." ? 

 

i would say your defining trait would rather be your obsession with ailerons  

but that's okay, you can never have too many xs ailerons ?