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'Fetch Ship' feature completely useless when ship is stuck in air above 4km !


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So the 'fetch ship' feature that everyone was so excited about is broken. 4km range from planet surface only???? really? I mean, no one has ever got their ship stuck above 4k...right? Because otherwise, its impossible to get the ship. I get the exploit. I get how people would 'misuse' this. BUT.....the fact that its needed, and if you put a 1 per day limit on it, it will eliminate the exploit, it should really be changed to no km limit, from ship, air, or wherever...now I have to wait for antigrav to reach 12000 km to get my ship, which has made the 'fetch' feature completely useless for me. Yes, I had time to write this post, and probably a couple of newspapers articles as I stare at the antigrav altitude get slowly higher...

 

 

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Personally, I think it should be limited to fetching a ship to the surface of a planet if in atmosphere with no distance limit, but not across the atmospheric 0% barrier.
Otherwise if range were unlimited, it would be too easy to load up a ship with 200kT of stuff and zap it into space for free or safely land a monster ship without effort from space.

 

Far more tedious is the manoeuvre tool limit. that was just unnecessarily strict, IMO.

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Exploits?


Meh...one of the most fundamental concepts of game design is to make sure players can't get stuck/stranded -- if they don't want to deal with exploits, they should fix the problem at its core.

 

I think ships should be able to autopilot to you within a generous range (at least your last active ship), but something like that would take NQ's entire dev team 4-5 months if the last patch is any indicator... ?‍♂️

 

In general though, fear of an exploit should be secondary to fear of players getting stuck. There's no way paying customers at release will tolerate that sort of thing. 

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10 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Personally, I think it should be limited to fetching a ship to the surface of a planet if in atmosphere with no distance limit, but not across the atmospheric 0% barrier.
Otherwise if range were unlimited, it would be too easy to load up a ship with 200kT of stuff and zap it into space for free or safely land a monster ship without effort from space.

 

Far more tedious is the manoeuvre tool limit. that was just unnecessarily strict, IMO.

Too many new players fetching xs cores with L containers from dig sites to markets... 

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2 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

Exploits?


Meh...one of the most fundamental concepts of game design is to make sure players can't get stuck/stranded -- if they don't want to deal with exploits, they should fix the problem at its core.

 

I think ships should be able to autopilot to you within a generous range (at least your last active ship), but something like that would take NQ's entire dev team 4-5 months if the last patch is any indicator... ?‍♂️

 

In general though, fear of an exploit should be secondary to fear of players getting stuck. There's no way paying customers at release will tolerate that sort of thing. 

 

I remember the bravado with which NQ deleted the fetch function. patch notes were crowing, "fetch feature removed as it is no longer needed" BWAHAHHAHA!!!

 

2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Too many new players fetching xs cores with L containers from dig sites to markets... 

 

They can't dig under the markets.
Like I said right there; TO THE SURFACE.... If it's already on the surface, it wont move.

Therre is already that mechanism for your avatar (GOING BACK TO SURFACE) but not for your constructs.

 

OK, maybe a little bit of leeway is needed to compensate for the chance that it is caught in a late spawning structure.... Maybe a few hundred metres or so.
But the fact is, having a ship caught 17km underground is not fun. It happened to me several times on Alioth and I had to phone NQ to get it out.

Therefore, there should be no limit as to how deep your ship can be retrieved from.

Why do you constantly try to find fault with everything?
 

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As long as fetch is needed (why that is, is a whole other discussion), it should at least cover the common scenarios where people need to recover ship due to de-syncs and a slew of other game breaking bugs. And the 4 km limit does not do this, plain and simple.

 

 

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A while back, NQ made it so if you Alt-F4 out of the game  (as well as other scenarios) while in a dynamic construct, its (and your) velocity would be restored when you log back in. I think fetch should operate much the same way for dynamic constructs (with a control unit) within the influence range of the user's planet - the physics engine should be activated so the ship will continue its motion (e.g fall to the surface) or if below the surface (and with non-zero velocity) moved  above straight up above the surface (at 50m?) followed by enabling the physics engine. So, the construct's control unit would behave like a remote control, and the user would be "frozen" until the constuct comes to rest.

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

And the 4 km limit does not do this, plain and simple.

I feel like fetch is an unbugging tool. 

What this means is: "if your construct cannot be recovered in any other way, fetch" 

 

"any other way" also includes paying some dude to give you a ride to your ship. 

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52 minutes ago, NQ-Naerais said:

Unfortunately there was a lot of abuse happening with the tool. Don't forget however if it's beyond 4km, you can still reach out to support as well either in game via the @gm, or ticket (https://support.dualthegame.com/hc/en-us)  

 

In my opinion, the potential for abuse ought to be less of a concern than the potential for players to get stuck/stranded in a paid beta/alpha product. 

 

Abuse has an impact as people teleport their ships around and save time, but is that really a worse impact than players getting stuck? Don't you think it is likely that at least some players have quit out of frustration because of this (or because they didn't know they could reach out to support for help, or didn't want to wait)? 

 

I don't think the abuse that this tool causes exceeds the damage caused by stranding people and forcing them to get GM help...especially since the root issue will be fixed soon anyway? ?

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16 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

I don't think the abuse that this tool causes exceeds the damage caused by stranding people and forcing them to get GM help...especially since the root issue will be fixed soon anyway? ?

 

Can you provide an example of a legit bug that left a player stranded more than 4km away from his ship? 

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All you have to do is fly higher then 4km, get a de-sync and fall off. Or if there are other people onboard, the ship will continue for much more then 4km, especially in sub-orbital. Also, any game bug leading to you dying and re spawning away from the ship.

 

Those are just the ones I have experienced, I am sure there are many more.

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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

All you have to do is fly higher then 4km, get a de-sync and fall off

I never had a de-sync making me fall from a ship. I did fall many times from ships for being careless. 

 

1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

Also, any game bug leading to you dying and re spawning away from the ship.

I had this happened because of 4 issues:

1 - player forgot to buy a respawn node

2 - respawn node was not activated

3 - respawn node got destroyed in crash

4 - server had some heavy maintenance and respawn nodes were reseted. 

 

The only thing that is actually NQ fault is the 4th.

Every thing else was the player's responsibility. 

 

Also, as was already stated, NQ will respond to any uncommon bugs. And if this occurrences become frequent, then making NQ aware of the problem is beneficial to the game. 

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The times I’ve needed it was because I burnt up in re-entry.

 

Both last times I was about 4300 km up.

 

I figured no problem, I’d make a little pile of rocks and make it to 4km, but now the limit of the height you can build up to with the dig tool has changed and can only do 100 meters now.

 

Crash due to pilot error, not sync issue, but it was hard getting somebody to rescue me as the player base has shrunk so much.

 

I need a back pack with a real comet booster!

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Fetch was not really brought back to cater to ships stuck in the air or glitched, it was reactivated to allow the "solution" of hiding ships on markets as it is needed to get them un-hidden.

 

Fetch is debug tool so it will be interesting to see how NQ eventually, maybe, possibly gets around to actually providing a solution for the lag issues around markets. So far their solutions, even when they claim they are based on data they have, did not resolve much, if not made things worse.

 

It's still a mystery why NQ can't implement an impound system which has been pretty much spelled out in several forum threads by now.

 

to be continued ...

 

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9 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

I never had a de-sync making me fall from a ship. I did fall many times from ships for being careless. 

 

I had this happened because of 4 issues:

1 - player forgot to buy a respawn node

2 - respawn node was not activated

3 - respawn node got destroyed in crash

4 - server had some heavy maintenance and respawn nodes were reseted. 

 

The only thing that is actually NQ fault is the 4th.

Every thing else was the player's responsibility. 

 

Also, as was already stated, NQ will respond to any uncommon bugs. And if this occurrences become frequent, then making NQ aware of the problem is beneficial to the game. 

 

12 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

Can you provide an example of a legit bug that left a player stranded more than 4km away from his ship? 

 

I already have done. So I don’t see why someone has to supply you with another example.
 

I am amazed how you constantly have a different experience to so many other people in this forum. It’s like you are using a different build to everybody else. 

 

I have had to call NQ due to errors not of my own making. 

 

my ship coming in to land at our base in Alioth after returning from MP3; the ground did not rez in until I was landed and the ground appeared around me and my ship. Which then started to fall. 
 

I was returned to the surface, my ship wasn’t. 
 

this happened several times.  It turns out there was a massive cave 17km below our base. Where my ship always seemed to end by the time I reappeared. 
 

how do I know? Because I had a res node on my ship and once I tried to spawn to it but got trapped in the underground cave with no exit. 
 

Another less worrying error but very common is that I have also been flying a ship using a remote pad and suddenly I am stopped in midair and my ship is continuing by itself. By the time I hit the ground, my ship is km away.
 

several times, my ship was more than 4km up.  
 

so now that you have this information (again) what do you intend to do with it? You specifically asked for an example. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I am amazed how you constantly have a different experience to so many other people in this forum. It’s like you are using a different build to everybody else. 

 

JoaoCordeiro

JC

 

:)

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2 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I am amazed how you constantly have a different experience to so many other people in this forum. It’s like you are using a different build to everybody else. 

 

Because people who think like him don't come to this forum. It's worse here than in Mordor. You only come in here if you are desperate.

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5 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

this happened several times.  It turns out there was a massive cave 17km below our base. Where my ship always seemed to end by the time I reappeared. 

 

Look, im not saying that it does not happen. 

But its not frequent. 

 

But the alternative is ppl using fetch to place ships in orbit or get ships from orbit. 

Or have NQ do some spaghetti code to decide when fetch ia allowed or not, and then have 1 new topic every week with some dude not understanding how fetch works. 

 

If occurrences are low, just ask a GM to help you when it happens. 

If you found the trigger of the bug, report it to NQ and try not to trigger it(if there is a cave below your base, move your base or dont land on your base) 

 

 

And in some point i even agree with you, 1st thing i said to NQ was "24h cool down is too long". 

 

But it is unfair to call this feature useless, specialy on a ship stranded in the air. When the player can easly go there by their own means. 

 

And it is clear, by the tone some ppl use, that some ppl think it is a feature they can use and abuse it every time they need to move something heavy. 

 

Maybe they could check if the ship is underground and extend the range in that case. 

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