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THE FUTURE OF DU COMMUNITY FEEDBACK Q&A - Discussion Thread


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NQ has been quite clear since the beginning of Beta that there was no promise that they would never wipe.  They have always said they might if they need to.   And IMO they really, really nee

There will be no wipe. You seem to forget ever so slightly, how much time has been spent on DU among the community. Wiping is not an option, going into BETA you signaled to the player base that whatev

Constant communication to answer players burning questions is a monumental task that is required at any time during the release cycle, even if that answer is reiterating “We [NQ] don’t know yet”.  So

Regarding schematics, I feel they should be something you find and can sell on the market. Maybe with the asteroids, there could be a crashed ship with a schematic or two on them? Players can then sell these schematics on the market.
^^ Just a quick suggestion. 

Edit: PVE content could tie into it in the future as well as an alternative method of finding schematics.

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Glad to see some response with pretty honest answers a bit vague but I get it at this point... Dealing with CIG has jaded me on getting concise answers.  

 

I would like to know how you plan on increasing the interaction between players.   With the resources being the biggest reason to fight and the horrible distribution of resources at launch, having pretty much everything you need inside the safe zone and no planetary risk for anyone.   There is no real reason to fight.  Lastly with warp drives being so common now it is nearly impossible to do any real piracy or interdiction of a planet or moon.   Because you can jump from safe zone to safe zone.  

 

Lastly the weapons and PVP is pretty stagnated.  It is down to the shaped voxel brick with rails or missiles and the occasional beam.   There is very little variation now.

 

Next what about the useless cockpit module?  I mean it has the worst number of widgets and is pretty fragile.  It has zero benefit over the hoverchair.  At least give it a built in radar.  

 

On the radar topic... Why have two different radar types, atmo and space when you can't connect them to the same chair?   If I am willing to sacrifice the capacitor for the second radar let me use it.

 

 

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If there is a wipe (and it’s a big IF), it may be a partial one only affecting certain aspects of the universe


Starting to look more and more like the old JC management.

But hey, I'm not blind to your effort to communicate @NQ-Naerais5 stars on communication.

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4 minutes ago, EasternGamer said:

Regarding schematics, I feel they should be something you find and can sell on the market. Maybe with the asteroids, there could be a crashed ship with a schematic or two on them? Players can then sell these schematics on the market.
^^ Just a quick suggestion. 

Edit: PVE content could tie into it in the future as well as an alternative method of finding schematics.

Not sure how I feel about this.

 

If you can still buy them on the market normally I would be fine with this.  But making it strictly a hunt for it thing... No.  As the last event proved the largest orgs will quickly dominate the market.   And with safe zones being so large where would this PVE take place?  

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What about your NON response to the thread on 0.24 what are you going to fix? The transparent screens arent transparent pleaSe fix it, they all look dirty now. They didn't used to. Also, large containers used to block light.. Most of the larger elements you can place on a ship should occlude light. Voxels should also and dirt. And they made a lot of the metal honeycomb look like spray painted plastic, some of it has ugly stretch marks in it now at times. The water on Alioth looks tainted with blood or some sort of algea making it appear bloody at night, ewww (I've seen this only when it gets dark). I've check with several players on these issues and they all have the same problems. When is it going to be fixed? This is my response to your idea of the future of DU....you still aren't responding DIRECTLY to a forum you created about 0.24. Will this be different? Many people feel we are just getting a sort of lip service with regard to posting here, You ask for discussion threads about things and then YOU refuse to join in our discussion. THAT needs to change, please.

I am interested in many of the things you have mentioned in your future of DU devblog but I am trying to gain confidence that you are truly reading and listening, posting on your dev blog is NOT the same as contributing here on this beta forum created just for that purpose. Why are staff reluctant to interact on posts you start? A tiny bit of community trust goes a long way. Patch 0.24 made many parts of DU a lot kooler to play, however, it broke a lot of things you haven't bothered addressing in your 'devblog' or here. So my confidence that you are truly listening took a nosedive and now struggling to recover.

Also to note, just creating a thread post is NOT interacting it is getting US to interact while they sit back and mebe read it but I've yet to see any of them respond to the threads they create IN THE FORUM, not their devblog.

 

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1 minute ago, LouHodo said:

Not sure how I feel about this.

 

If you can still buy them on the market normally I would be fine with this.  But making it strictly a hunt for it thing... No.  As the last event proved the largest orgs will quickly dominate the market.   And with safe zones being so large where would this PVE take place?  

That is beyond the scope of what I can really say. PVE should take place out in the PVP zone, where it will be more like PVPVE. Maybe an asteroid is an NPC pirate's base and you have to kill them first. The "strictly a hunt"  bit is a little inaccurate. Maybe they could be rewards for NPC missions? For explorers, the idea that exploring could yield money is great. Like, imagine finding an asteroid before everyone else and it has an exotic L weapon schematic, you could make a huge amount of profit without even digging. You could even sell the cords of the asteroid itself.

The balance has to come for how a discovery is made. Giving a massive advantage to large orgs should be avoided. They should have an advantage, but not one that is a landslide.

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Please also note that there is a waiting list of one year to have access to one of the machines of Shadow, which makes debugging all the more difficult.

 

And what is preventing you from asking any of the many who have reported this issue to help test by installing additional tools or gather data from their Shadow PC?

 

Frankly, from the answer it seems that NQ does not actually understand what Shadow is of how it functions especially in relation to other platforms. The issue is very distinct, has a 100% reproduction rate at a very much specific point in the load in phase, so what happens around the 75-78% point when loading the game as that is where the crash occurs.

 

The answer really evades the question. And the answer really only shows that NQ does not have the first idea on where to start on this. I am also pretty sure that access to a shadow PC can be arranged on shorter notice for NQ. (and no, the wait time for activation is not a year)

 

Shadow is a full Windows PC, it is not a platform which is limited to loading specific games. It is a windows PC with a dedicated GPU and the specs meet or exceed the requirements to run DU.

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There will be no wipe. You seem to forget ever so slightly, how much time has been spent on DU among the community. Wiping is not an option, going into BETA you signaled to the player base that whatever we do from now on matters, GIANT station and multicore bases have been constructed which are impossible to put back together with blueprints. Items stored in boxes won't be transferred screwing up big indies and storages, there is no possible way to preform a wipe that would be more fair than the universe we have today, sure some might have exploited for riches, but guess what, riches don't last forever, only hard work keeps you rich. By wiping, you're removing negligible advantages from exploiters while destroying the honest players hard work. Only a small minority of players who've suffered through the last months of DU (who are a minority of the original player base) will take a sucker punch like that and "start over". Come up with sustainable solutions to whatever problems may arise instead of even thinking about wiping a persistent universe.

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Thought we'd get some real answers  to the questions people have been asking, example space territory, original feedback thread was filled to the brim with questions about that, but not a single sentence of answer in the QnA post.

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We’d love to, just understand that the frequency of our communications really depends on the cadence of the game releases.

 

No, that is what NQ thinks, and we're well aware of this misconception by NQ on what communication is expected/desired/needed.

It's unfortunate that this only affirms no changes in this regard anytime soon.

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First, I appreciate the increased - and meaningful - communication. It's encouraging even to hear that you have heard us, and are thinking about a thing.

 

Personally I could take or leave the PvP - why would humanity venture out in an Arkship for thousands of years just to land and start the same petty resource squabbles? But it's a game, I get that, the emergent gameplay around PvP can drive things.

 

One of my thoughts on building a civilization is that structures on earth are typically shaped by needs and physics. Skycrapers don't go up until we have elevators. Civilizations grow along water sources. Aircraft carriers must have spaces both for the planes they carry and the crew that live on them.  Right now in DU, there's not much in the way of needs to dictate a structure. You don't need to sleep. You don't need to eat. You don't need to have storage for anything but your building materials or sellable items. One person can operate a massive battleship-sized construct, and it doesn't actually need to have any voxels, it can all just be "floating" elements.  I'm not suggesting voxel/element evaluation the way Space Engineers does it, but at the moment the only reason to build buildings is to be cool, and because we can. Cities don't need roads because we hover. Planets don't need cities, actually, because you can live and do everything from one ship.

 

I know we don't want the game to feel like going to work, but I feel like as long as there aren't more requirements put on players and structures, everything is always going to be ornamental. What's the point of putting up an tower with rooms when no one would need a room for anything?  There's no clever problem solving. No one making a cool ship design that manages to fit living space for 8 people into a small area. Routing power conduits in a certain way that saves space or weight. Things like that; boundaries that help define the engineering and visual language of the civilization.  Now maybe the game was never going to be that, but if nothing more is ever going to be required of structures, then if we have cities, they will be empty buildings that are essentially nothing more than statues.

 

Just my thoughts as I play through and visit things like the city on Teoma, which is both very cool and very ghostly.

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I have the strong feeling, that if you realy wanted to avoid a wipe, even a partial one.. you should have (re)acted accordingly to the bugs/ flawed mechanics you introduced over the time.

E.g. giving away schematics for a tiny fraction of their price..and now you probably even 'compensate' the abuser, making them provit twice. You could have done a rollback to an earlier backup immediately. (i hope there are backups at all..)

Or the mechanic that chars can use infinite territory scanners simultaniously, enabling orgs to scan and claim whole moons in short time. There should be a limit, probably skillable to an higher ammount of scanners..like 6-9..IMO.

 

But overall the existing world now just leaves the taste of growing imbalance.

I know that the no-wipe-promise is still high valued at NQ, but i honestly dont see how you want to correct the 'system' in a meaningfull fair way..specially for player that come way later, if you aim for a release mid 2022, and all they'll find claimed tiles and billionaires.

 

On a side note..i don't feel that mining units will do any good to that situation.

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2 minutes ago, smurfenq said:

Thought we'd get some real answers  to the questions people have been asking, example space territory, original feedback thread was filled to the brim with questions about that, but not a single sentence of answer in the QnA post.

just like I keep saying - see my post about their NON response issue - lets create posts and only respond in our safe 'space' the devblog, the dev blog is NOT the same as responding to players IN the beta forum.

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12 minutes ago, sysadrift said:

On that last point about a wipe, please do not take the incessant ranting of a very vocal minority as a legitimate request from the community.  There's probably about >1% of players who actually want that, most of them new. 

You have zero means to actually come to that %. 

 

So this comment is totally your uninformed opinion, or worse, your attenpt to manipulate the argument with a clear lie. 

 

I also talk to ppl that play the game from new players to old alpha backers. None agree that the current situation is fair or that they should not wipe. 

 

But even if your % was true. NQ needs to do what is best for the game. Not what the majority of the players wany. 

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1 minute ago, joaocordeiro said:

You have zero means to actually come to that %. 

 

So this comment is totally your uninformed opinion, or worse, your attenpt to manipulate the argument with a clear lie. 

 

I also talk to ppl that play the game from new players to old alpha backers. None agree that the current situation is fair or that they should not wipe. 

 

But even if your % was true. NQ needs to do what is best for the game. Not what the majority of the players wany. 

then a discussion is needed as to HOW a wipe might work how do bases and factories get rebuilt that are in the ground? a discussion on that alone is necessary if they even consider it.

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Just now, WooTiPanTz said:

then a discussion is needed as to HOW a wipe might work how do bases and factories get rebuilt that are in the ground? a discussion on that alone is necessary if they even consider it.

That's the point..if you just respawn everything after an wipe..you don't need an wipe.

Ppl will just place all their ressources on cores, hoping for the 'magical' blueprint..nothing gained.

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Constant communication to answer players burning questions is a monumental task that is required at any time during the release cycle, even if that answer is reiterating “We [NQ] don’t know yet”.  So keep up the great comms @NQ-Naerais !

 

On another note, if the dreaded schematics arn’t banished back to the pits of hell that spawned them, players should be able to create them... though science!

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Good to hear some open honest answers to community.  I know its a big vague, but the reasons are quite reasonable. Top points for the response, lets keep the momentum. PTS is a great step in the right direction and a way the community can actively contribute to game future.

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3 minutes ago, WooTiPanTz said:

then a discussion is needed as to HOW a wipe might work how do bases and factories get rebuilt that are in the ground? a discussion on that alone is necessary if they even consider it.

A wipe will do nothing at this point.  If there are no major redistribution of resources, drastic reduced safe zones and construction redesign from the ground up.  It will do nothing but reduce the playerbase of players already holding on by a thread.

 

A wipe will do nothing at this point as the initial beta launch showed.  Experienced orgs will just throw together some quick built ships with a few territory markers and scanners and go to the planets rich in the resources they want.   And claim the valuable tiles and build from there.

 

Unlike other games a wipe will not help.  An event that forces a redistribution of resources and reduces the safe zones around planets.   Along with giving the ability to clean up abandoned claimed tiles would go a long way to improve the state of the game.

 

Force people to start paying taxes on all of their tiles.  Force upkeep costs.  Don't login to keep up on those fees and your stuff goes unclaimed.    You will always have your starter tile on Sanctuary.

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 While I question a lot of answers given in this post, especially the two I posted on above, I do see first signs of some things that are really needed but at the same time it's a shame NQ stops short of actually taking ownership of these and come out clean and clear.

 

Also, the complete absence of anything related to the change in leadership is .. well.. questionable. I'd expect all of this is still up ion the air until the final word comes doen from the investors on the viability for NQ to continue and fresh investment to be made available.

 

 

Yes, it is good to see NQ finally letting go of the 2021 "release". But then you turn right around and set the expectation you are shooting for  a delay of about 6 months. No amount of " this is not a commitment" will stop that expectation from being established. The roadmap is obviously out the window and that is fine as it makes sense to anyone with a brain. NQ can't currently say anything solid as they are still trying to figure out whether they can actually keep going and then how much time they will need to get done what needs to be done. And until then, a new roadmap makes no sense. I mean just say it.. You should know by now your community is perfectly willing to accept reasonable and sensible updates whatever they are as we all see the signs.

 

And  thank you for taking the "no wipe" of the table, even if worded in a very cautious way.. that was needed and is sensible

 

Lastly:

 

Quote

There are different general topics we could discuss between releases, but they wouldn’t really bring anything concrete to the table and that communication could be seen as shallow and vague. It’s actually an interesting topic we’d like to explore with you: what is it exactly that you expect in terms of communication? How can we balance having meaningful content to present with what seems to be the need of our players to see ongoing communication? Based on reactions we’ve seen in the past, we  believe that communicating simply for the sake of it when we have nothing really new to talk about is never well-received.

 

Do you _really_ need us to tell you what we expect/would like to see here? Frankly, that you even ask tell me you are pretty much oblivious to what is happening on the forums specifically. Maybe if you  replace "communication" with "Engagement with your community".. Does that ring any bells?

 

DU would be a better game and further along if NQ actually took note of so many threads in the forums with some great content, suggestions and ideas. But not ever a beep from NQ, no idea if it is ever seen or taking on board/considered (from the lack of any follow up it appears not) and then we see NQ make mistakes or strange choices that we discussed and suggested for months prior all of which was for nothing and ignored. There was one CM who understood this and tried, she really tried (at least that is the impression we all got and we appreciated her for it) but NQ lost her for whatever reason. And I will leave it at that.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, WooTiPanTz said:

then a discussion is needed as to HOW a wipe might work how do bases and factories get rebuilt that are in the ground? a discussion on that alone is necessary if they even consider it.

There are no good options here. 

This is about bitting a crap sandwich or a crap risoto. 

 

NQ should never had promissed that changes on a Beta/buggy/exploitable phase would matter for release. 

 

Now they have to chose between very serious unfair power and wealth accumulations or go back on their word and wipe. 

 

And beta is not over yet. More exploits will come. 

More bugs will cause major loss to some players and near infinite gains to others. 

 

Sure they can try to quick fix those unfair situations but they wont be able to. 

 

During that 1st week that we sold t5 to bot orders, we knew they would try to fix it. 

Many like me took action. 

A simple buy order i placed and later canceled was able to hide my 120M quanta from their 50M cap limit. 

 

I got away with 70M extra. But i know ppl that got away with 1000M

 

And how about all those industrialists that got their initial industry using their friends quanta? How did that 50M cap fix their 200M factory? 

 

They cant fix this. We are 10000 thinking minds trying to evade their 30 mind fixes. Some will succeed. 

 

The solution is only one. 

1 - Fix the game, exit beta stage. 

2 - Wipe. 

 

There is no partial wipe that will fix this. 

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3 minutes ago, LouHodo said:

Experienced orgs will just throw together some quick built ships with a few territory markers and scanners and go to the planets rich in the resources they want.   And claim the valuable tiles and build from there.

 

As said..the game mechanics need to be fixed first. Any wipe before makes as you say no sense at all.

I'm aware that there will be loud crying of ppl that are afraid of having 'wasted' their time playing a game. But i guess the majority of those are the ones whom hoped to throw loads of money early at NQ, now sitting on their fowl money from flawed game mechanics hoping to dominate new players on release.

I think it's also in NQs interest to address that issue.

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I think the holes in the ground should deteriorate over time via earthquake activity or weight - this would allow for healing the ground. Also new ore deposits can form as they are shaken from the previously compacted 'undisturbed' soil. Personal tiles can be set so they do not renew any soil. Or like landmark did set it so you can create a zones on your own tiles where the terrain doesn't regenerate.

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