trolls BOO Ruined The Event To Spam Salt Memes

[ManfredSideous]

2 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Lets say you were. (not what demlock transpired from his discord announcement) 

 

Was there a doubt in your mind that the "little duders" would run away or be completely destroyed? 

 

Was there a chance for the event to happen after your attack? 

 

Your choice was to ignore the event or disrupt it. 

And you did your choice. 

That choice had a consequence of the aggravation of the fall of this project. 

My choice was to pvp in a pvp event. There was no Machiavellian plot. There was PVP I like PVP I go PVP YAY!!!!!!!  I mean my name is Manfred SIDEDOUS (Manfred for Manfred Von Richtovfen and Sideous for Darth Sideous basically an ace evil guy)

[joaocordeiro]

1 minute ago, ManfredSideous said:

Dynamically driven player content is a huge marketing tool for games like Dual Universe and Eve Online

No question there. Im not a eve player and i love to read those reports. Read the sequence of events, the ammount of currency lost. Makes me dream like i was seeing a movie. 

 

But is DU at that state? 

 

Were the Star wars folks doing a invasion and you had your noble duty to repel it? 

 

Was this a good promotion of the game? 

I dont believe so. 

The promoted message was:

If you play this game, a big org will kill you on sight with no mercy. 

 

And i know most of you dont kill small fish but that was the promotion you guys did. 

[ManfredSideous]

5 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

No question there. Im not a eve player and i love to read those reports. Read the sequence of events, the ammount of currency lost. Makes me dream like i was seeing a movie. 

 

But is DU at that state? 

 

Were the Star wars folks doing a invasion and you had your noble duty to repel it? 

 

Was this a good promotion of the game? 

I dont believe so. 

The promoted message was:

If you play this game, a big org will kill you on sight with no mercy. 

 

And i know most of you dont kill small fish but that was the promotion you guys did. 

The message is it's a Massively Multi-Player game and you can not predict the actions of other players. Perhaps if we (BOO) are lucky we have made some new enemies that will seek to bring about our destruction and attempt it.  Wouldn't that be fun interesting and immersive.  Judging by the tone of "some" replies itt we have "rustled" some people. Here's hoping they make the leap to vengeance.  At any rate they can build a bridge about it and get over it , keep posting hilarious tears or lastly and my most favorite option come do something about it.

[joaocordeiro]

4 minutes ago, ManfredSideous said:

The message is it's a Massively Multi-Player game and you can not predict the actions of other players.

No, thats not the message a guy thinking about playing the game reads. 

 

He reads if i try to explore the 60% of the universe, not protected from pvp, i will be instantly killed by meta ships. 

[JohnnyTazer]

4 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

No, thats not the message a guy thinking about playing the game reads. 

 

He reads if i try to explore the 60% of the universe, not protected from pvp, i will be instantly killed by meta ships. 

Thats a great message. This isn't Star Wars or [Insert Stolen IP here].  This is DUAL UNIVERSE and people should be having fun learning the meta on building ships.  And its NQ's job to make it so there can be more than one viable meta in what/how they build, but thats for another discussion.

[joaocordeiro]

8 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Thats a great message. This isn't Star Wars or [Insert Stolen IP here].

Lol, why dont you do a comedy show for Netflix? 

[ManfredSideous]

13 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Lol, why dont you do a comedy show for Netflix? 

I am more into dramas and boy this thread is drippin.

[Noddles]

Or, or, or, you could promote the people who participated in the event who said they had a good time even after BOO's arrival. The ones who stayed and fought. NQ and NQ alone are to blame for their shitty player numbers. Those of us wanting this to be more than a worse version of Landmark are not to blame. 

[le_souriceau]

Speaking of promotion (beyond moral issues of this particular event).

 

Simple fact: DU promoted on its "landmark-style" aspect for years now, every mucking day Twitter and FB have have:

 

"Look at this another fancy crap built by another voxelmancer, DU is so amazing blablabla". For some reason its generaly only kind of post DU SMM guy (?) bother to master.

 

Yet, its also safe to assume, this "promotion" not exactly working. Millions of players not storming our front door. Sure, here and there some nerd get exited over his own Death Star with blackjack and hookers, but majority of outside gamers (who can join us) I think want some actual (idealy -- comptetitive -- this is MMO) gameplay action.

[JohnnyTazer]

4 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Speaking of promotion (beyond moral issues of this particular event).

 

Simple fact: DU promoted on its "landmark-style" aspect for years now, every mucking day Twitter and FB have have:

 

"Look at this another fancy crap built by another voxelmancer, DU is so amazing blablabla". For some reason its generaly only kind of post DU SMM guy (?) bother to master.

 

Yet, its also safe to assume, this "promotion" not exactly working. Millions of players not storming our front door. Sure, here and there some nerd get exited over his own Death Star with blackjack and hookers, but majority of outside gamers I think want some actual (idealy -- comptetitive -- this is MMO) gameplay action.

It's so fucking stupid they promote that garbage.  "LOOK AT THIS LUXURY YACHT! oh ya those chairs made of voxels sorry you cant sit on them."  Pretty to look at once. Then you immediately dismiss it because its meaningless and serves no function.  Not a great way to retain someone to pay a monthly sub for years. On the other hand I know people that play other MMOs for decades(WoW, EvE)

[Maxim Kammerer]

8 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

The promoted message was:

If you play this game, a big org will kill you on sight with no mercy.

That's good because NQ is not honest about it. DU is still advertised with the promise that you can play it solo. But JC obviously hates solo players and small orgs. He wants DU to be dominated by big orgs (aka civilization building).

[le_souriceau]

3 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

That's good because NQ is not honest about it. DU is still advertised with the promise that you can play it solo. But JC obviously hates solo players and small orgs. He wants DU to be dominated by big orgs (aka civilization building).

I think JC hates (almost) everyone then, if we follow your logic here.

 

Because overhelming majority of so called "large orgs" are totaly FUBAR in current state of game. Problem much deeper, then solo-small-big org balancing, its about content severly lacking for many potential playstyles (independedly of grouping and its size). So, realisticly, does it even matter if you go to quitting from boredom/burnout alone or along with several friends or 100 other people. End result is same.

[joaocordeiro]

53 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Problem much deeper, then solo-small-big org balancing, its about content severly lacking for many potential playstyles

Yep. 

But why is DU like that? 

 

Is it simply a question of delayed development? Like most content being over delayed and now not happening before release? 

 

I dont think so. I think there were clear choices that could have added some quality of life to DU play that were decided on the opposite direction. 

 

Surrogate nerf being one of them. We all know the game would be a different game if ppl could be anywhere, anytime. 

But it would massively reduce the pain of playing du. 

You could help a friend on another planet without having to spend 3 hours of travel. 

You could join a space battle or retreat from one without the major pain of 3 hours of gathering to say "we are calling this off" 

It would give ppl more options, with less consequences, making the game less painfull. 

 

NPC buy orders that were nerfed. 

The only problem this orders had was the quick enrichment at the start of beta. But that was caused by the commonality of t5 ore. And not with the existence of the orders. Orders were way outside of player price ranges, so no competition happened. 

But nerfing those orders had a big impact on how slow the game develops. 

Specialy for lone players. 

Making it a pain to make a pvp ship. 

That makes it a pain to lose one. 

Restricting pvp to players affiliated with big orgs. 

 

Schematics had the same effect. 

Having 100 elements of the same type, in military, advanced, rare.. Also slows down the game. 

 

The fix meta pvp ships was also a bad fix. 

Meta is only usefull because radar ditection range is locked on core size. 

Instead of fixing it to lock on volume or cross-section they locked yet another thing to core size. 

 

Creative mode is a good thing, unless they spend a ton of resources to end up nerfing it like surrogates. 

 

But we cant fully blame NQ on this. 

Although they are the primary responsible, we know that a large group of long-timer players heavily lobbied for those goals. 

They lobbed so having a powerfull org would give them tremendous advantages. 

And NQ did what they wanted. 

[le_souriceau]

2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Is it simply a question of delayed development? Like most content being over delayed and now not happening before release? 

 

I dont think so. I think there were clear choices that could have added some quality of life to DU play that were decided on the opposite direction. 

Something like that. I stuggle to formulate this in english (with my level of language), but I think JC kinda agressivly dreams to make "serious" game of some "scientific simulation of civilization" narrative, but in meanwhile arrogantly butchering actual "gaming", "fun" component of loops and systems, that makes games... games. 

So we constantly ending up with half-assed "simulator" that takes too long and give too little (for majority), then enjoyable mmo we promised initialy in pink glasses phase.

 

Slow development just not helps in any case, only makes any problems more noticeble and painful.

 

Yet I bit disagree on "conspiracy" of old big orgs or something. Probably at some point NQ little bit overflirted (so to say) with "landmark" part of community, but even this likely in past at this point of trajectory. Most large orgs totaly disfunctional or practicly disbanded (because of less and less members interested). So they fell victims as anyone else, solo or small group.

[joaocordeiro]

2 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Yet I bit disagree on "conspiracy" of old big orgs or something

Its not a "conspiracy" about orgs. 

Its certain players, singular ppl, that heavily lobbied to get this to the situation it is. 

How many times have you seen someone say "this game is not to be played alone?" 

Every time someone defends this, they are not only defending the unbalance between lone player vs org player. But also small org vs large org. 

 

We see this every day. And i know of players with "special relationships" opening discord chats and/or direct emails, lobbying for this. 

 

I know the nerfing of bot orders on the 1st week was lobbied by a communication with a joined support (signed) from several of those "influential" players. 

 

And i agree that big orgs are in disarray. But that does not mean that those players did not act.

Just means they failed to predict the outcome of their own lobbying. 

 

They took down economy's regulation. 

They took down fast travel. 

They are still lobbying to take down most of pvp protections. 

 

The consequence of this is the exponential pain of playing outside of a big org. And they dont see a problem with that.

 

And when the game fails, they will blame the bugs and the lack of content. 

[blundertwink]

3 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

But we cant fully blame NQ on this. 

Although they are the primary responsible, we know that a large group of long-timer players heavily lobbied for those goals. 

They lobbed so having a powerfull org would give them tremendous advantages. 

And NQ did what they wanted. 

no matter how many voices are telling them to do something, it is NQ's responsibility to make a choice. they are the "professional" game designers/developers. 

 

it isn't that they are "primarily" responsible, they are 100% responsible. there's literally no other power that controls what is or isn't in this game. 

 

i hate this idea that you can blame players for decisions that NQ makes, like they are helpless against some almighty Machiavellian influence. 

 

it makes no sense in the context of NQ's communication or culture -- they don't listen to players, they don't communicate with players, and according to some accounts they don't even listen to their own employees...which considering the state of the game and several high-profile departures, I completely believe. 

 

it's like NQ is rotten at listening and communicating...except when they make some changes it is because they "did what some group of players wants".

 

it's also a kind of survivor bias -- for every suggestion that ends up in the game there's dozens of others that don't

 

the reason DU is failing is because NQ isn't a skilled developer. that should be obvious based on the pace of dev, inability to fix bugs, and overall horrible state of the tech after 6+ years. 

[joaocordeiro]

33 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

the reason DU is failing is because NQ isn't a skilled developer. that should be obvious based on the pace of dev, inability to fix bugs, and overall horrible state of the tech after 6+ years. 

 

I know having long-lived, outstanding bugs is an Issue.

But I don't think that's the main reason for failing.

Let me explain:

 

I don't think people getting frustrated with something bugging out, or crash to desktop is the main drive for subscription abandonment.

But the dragging of bug fixing of consecutive bugs may be an explanation for the game failure. In the way that those bugs distracted the development team from implementing new content and balance.

 

40 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

i hate this idea that you can blame players for decisions that NQ makes, like they are helpless against some almighty Machiavellian influence. 

 

Well, it's not a simple issue.

Unlike what PPL may want to define, Responsibility is never a binary value.

 

NQ decided to gather feedback and listen to feedback. 

They could have opted to hire professionals to analyze the problems and suggest decisions.

They could have hired a team of alpha/beta testers to do it.

They could have to outsource feedback to a 3rd party company.

Instead, they decided to listen to feedback in a raw format mostly in discord troll like discussions, some in the forum, some in direct contacts (email, pms)

That's their responsibility, and it is a big one, a huge chunk.

 

But then, the players gave their feedback.

Some players failed to give any feedback(others are already doing it so why should I do something) -- This guys failed to understand that they are the "common" player, and not giving their feedback makes "extreme" feedback more normal.

Some players engaged in feedback in a "war to be won" kind of debate. -- This guys made it hard for NQ to listen to proper feedback. NQ had to dig tons of crap to read something usefull.

Some players coordinated lobbying, by going into discord and forum in groups of 3 or 4, supporting each other claims, and contesting the other part. Some times not because if factual agreement, but because of the group mentality of debate and common final goal of lobbying. -- These guys were successful suppressing opposing feedback by labeling it as "not supported by most"

 

At the end, NQ was left with bad quality feedback.

Could they simply ignore the feedback they were getting? Sure, that's their 95% responsibility.

Could we have given better quality feedback? Yes, that's our 5% responsibility

 

[le_souriceau]

28 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

But then, the players gave their feedback.

There also were ones, that kinda fanaticly repeated what NQ "wanted to hear" (endless re-iterations of broadly stated JC ideas of how great will be our civilization, organization gameplay, player content creation and all this stuff), tearing apart anyone who questioned if it even work in real game, considering existing (or more correctly -- non-existing) systems to support it.

 

And, mega ironicly, while I'm not name names, some of loudest adepts of this "school" were ones who quit first after tasting reality and likely never to be seen again.