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Schematics


Watru88

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Ok so am a new player picked this up 2 days ago. But been wanting to try it for a while. Now i get that stuff takes some time to get done, have no problem with that. Watching some stuff on YouTube that was clear.

 

But last night i figuerd out that you dont just need the refinary and so 4th but you actualy need to buy the Blueprints/ Schematics as well as you have to figurer out what talents you need and gather the ore.

 

Now the fact that you need the Schematics and they are not available in the Refinary, Smelter or what ever is IMO to much it draged the fun right out of the game for me. Am sure i am going to get alot of hate for this thread. But if the Devs read this post i Hope the consider doing something. The game seems som fun and you could have som much fun but now its a total money grinder. 

 

I dont know but must have been like that before becuse no one mentions this inn the YouTube videos.

 

Please consider making this game a bit less grindy and i will sub for ever.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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Welcome to the game.

Schematics were added in December with patch 0.23 and a lot of the youtube content was made in September/October when the beta was first released. For industry related content that includes schematics, you should look for things made after December 10th or that mention the patch. There were other industry changes as well that earlier videos would not have covered. More advanced items now require different tiers of industry machines. For example, refining a tier 3 ore now requires a higher level refinery.

 

As a new player, I think you'll enjoy the game more by avoiding the industry aspects while you learn other areas of the game. Buying the items you need will generally be much cheaper than the startup costs of setting up the industry to produce it. Start out buying what you need to build a ship/base, explore other planets, try out pvp, find a community of players to interact with, etc. Once you get an idea of what you enjoy doing, then you can focus your industry on just the items you need in bulk.

 

If you really want to get started with industry because it interests you, then the only way to limit the initial grind is to focus. Don't try to make everything. Find an item you think you can sell and just setup the industry for it. Then use the knowledge/profits from that setup to expand. Industry is now an expensive investment though, so you're going to have to grind for quanta.

 

Mining ore and selling on the market is the most straightforward way to make quanta right now. If you mine a lot, look into territory scanners. You can run them while mining and they help you find which tiles have more abundant ore. If you want to diversify the grind, there are some other ways to make money though.

One example is hauling items between markets. Buy things at a lower cost and then resell them. This is a fairly consistent way to make money, but market demand for many items is low so it will take more time than mining to grow your quanta. The benefit is you can spend that time doing other things in game while waiting for items to sell. Hauling can transition well into industry if that is your goal. For example, I found a location where I could build a shop to sell fuel and scrap. I didn't have the industry skills to make low cost fuel yet, so I initially bought the items at the market to resell at my shop. As my industry skill improves I'm making some of the items now and still buying others from players/markets.

Edited by fiddlybits
Added information about tiered industry machines.
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@Watru88

Keep in mind that for anything you can craft in the nano crafter you do not need schematics. Also the intention is that industry should not be a fully DIY solution for parts. 

 

Let's say you experiment a lot with small core ships. A lot of what you'd use for that can be crafted in your nano pack. you could also buy an Assembly line M and the schematic for the part and then craft a stock of the needed subcomponents in inventory.. If that makes sense.

 

The game is young and a lot of things, like a proper functional market economy such as seen in EVE, are some time away from becoming a reality. That said, there's certainly room for making a quick buck on markets if you are observant and smart. Since the markets are still very small and young, prices can fluctuate and it's relatively easy for some to manipulate markets. 

 

Also, while the schematic system in itself is not a bad idea at all (it is pretty much the same as the blueprint system in EVE industry), what is missing is the mechanics around it that feed it and we can only hope NQ will eventually start implementing such mechanics removing the need to have bots seed schematics.

 

See THIS POST for an example of how that could work. All we can do is hope NQ pays attention to posts like this and starts designing solutions  for this.

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19 hours ago, fiddlybits said:



One example is hauling items between markets. Buy things at a lower cost and then resell them. This is a fairly consistent way to make money, 

That mostly stopped working after the first month of beta. Stuff is equally expensive to make no matter where you are, so prices settle toward the same point everywhere. The only exception is ore, which you mostly can't buy on the planet of origin because anyone mining it is hauling it back to Alioth to sell or wherever their factory is to use.

 

BTW, schematics and blueprints are very different things. A schematic allows an industry machine to craft a specific thing. A blueprint allows you to duplicate something that you (or someone else) has built. Crafting is not the same as building in DU. (I don't craft if I can avoid it, but building is a major part of my game-play.)

 

Many players - maybe half the player base - quit when schematics came in. If I cared about crafting, I would have quit. You're not alone in thinking the grind needs to be toned down a bit.

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A factory isn't meant for building things you need - it's meant for building things that you sell on the market, so you can buy the things you need.  It's also a bit advanced and not really for new players - just mine for a while to make money.  

When you make a little bit (and really, it is just a tiny amount), you can start producing something small and cheap, and sell it on market for +15% value compared to the ores.  Then you put your ores into your industry, instead of selling them to market, and sell your products.  

Eventually after a while of this you make enough money to buy a real big-profit industry, then you're just rolling in profit

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2 hours ago, Daphne Jones said:

That mostly stopped working after the first month of beta. Stuff is equally expensive to make no matter where you are, so prices settle toward the same point everywhere. The only exception is ore, which you mostly can't buy on the planet of origin because anyone mining it is hauling it back to Alioth to sell or wherever their factory is to use.

I guess it depends on the margin you're looking for. I just looked a territory units today and there are several markets on Alioth that either have 0 sell orders or sell orders at 100%+ of the prices at district 1, 6 and 7. I'm still making money by moving things between Alioth markets for 20-50% markup depending on the item. Bringing schematics in to Alioth from the outer planets is profitable as well, although that takes a bit more startup capital to get going. The main issue I'm seeing right now is that overall demand for items is low, so it takes time for inventory to sell. Most things sell within a few weeks though.

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Just now, fiddlybits said:

I guess it depends on the margin you're looking for. I just looked a territory units today and there are several markets on Alioth that either have 0 sell orders or sell orders at 100%+ of the prices at district 1, 6 and 7. I'm still making money by moving things between Alioth markets for 20-50% markup depending on the item. Bringing schematics in to Alioth from the outer planets is profitable as well, although that takes a bit more startup capital to get going. The main issue I'm seeing right now is that overall demand for items is low, so it takes time for inventory to sell. Most things sell within a few weeks though.

Oh schematics to Alioth. Yeah. That works pretty well and I've done some of that. Usually on a contract to pick up a schematic for someone to use, I'll buy extras and sell on the market. (If someone is contracting for it, it will probably sell. I don't do enough industry to actually know what schematics are in demand otherwise.)

 

I guess it may be time to look at market trading again. I'd rather be doing that than mining.

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Hey i tried using the nanocrafter after i read the comments, wanted to make a dynamic core but the one item you need to build half of it.
You need a smelter for, i cant belive this is the case i enjoy mining and building, my goal was to get into space.

But as it stands now (unless am missing something) it is imposible with out grinding like mother ... .
Why did they do this and i wish i knew before subing for 3 months, i guess they got my money and don`t care now what some simple noob thinks anyway. lol

Thanks for all the tips and so on, expected this thread to go the other way.
Atleast DU have a good community going for it.

Cheers guys!!

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1 hour ago, Watru88 said:

Hey i tried using the nanocrafter after i read the comments, wanted to make a dynamic core but the one item you need to build half of it.
You need a smelter for, i cant belive this is the case i enjoy mining and building, my goal was to get into space.

XS dynamic cores (and everything you need to build one) can be built entirely in the nano former

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18 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

XS dynamic cores (and everything you need to build one) can be built entirely in the nano former

Space fuel cannot be crafted in nano pack. Also requires uncommon industry and schematic for T2 ore refining.

I'm not sure but i think most space components are not craftable in nano pack, in any size.


I'm not sure if S atmo engines can be built in nano pack. But you sure hell ain't going to get to space with xs engines.

Are any seats craftable in nano pack?

So your comment is something between being an impractical scenario or a lie.

 

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try use the nanocrafter it's slow as f...

 

Bottom line, NQ does not want creative free form PVE/PVP. They have set down their rules and taking away the ball, which is fine.

I tried they new fun game, it did not feel fun for me, cannot even be bother to login for the daily bonus. bye DU the idea was fun while it lasted.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

I tried they new fun game, it did not feel fun for me, cannot even be bother to login for the daily bonus. bye DU the idea was fun while it lasted.

Yea. I'm on the same boat.

But this is not the end for me and should not be the end for you.

 

As it is,(IMO) the game will not survive, at least not for long.

So one of 2 things will happen in the future.

  1. The game changes and becomes attractive
  2. The game closes and NQ is forced by investors to sell the salvaged technology developed to others.

Both this options will create new opportunities for me and you to have fun again in the future.

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7 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

So your comment is something between being an impractical scenario or a lie.

 

They're specifically asking about crafting an XS Dynamic core.   Everything you need for one can be done in the nanocrafter.  You don't need a smelter.

 

You can also craft all the S sized engines and fuel tanks in the Nanocrafter.

 

You can also craft a Hover seat or a command seat in the Nanocrafter.

 

Once i flew to Jago in a speeder with 10 XS atmo engines and 2 XS space engines ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

 

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1 minute ago, Atmosph3rik said:

They're specifically asking about crafting an XS Dynamic core

Hum, my mistake then, I assumed the OP objective to go to space was part of the conversation.

1 hour ago, Watru88 said:

You need a smelter for, i cant belive this is the case i enjoy mining and building, my goal was to get into space.

 

3 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

You can also craft all the S sized engines and fuel tanks in the Nanocrafter.

 

You can also craft a Hover seat or a command seat in the Nanocrafter.

Ups, been too long since I played for more than 2 hours. Sorry.

 

4 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

Once i flew to Jago in a speeder with 10 XS atmo engines and 2 XS space engines ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

 

Yea. So did I, but not that easy to accomplish without prior knowhow. And quite impossible without space fuel.

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In my opinion they should create a new space fuel. X-5
Made 100% T1 or unrefined T2. But craftable in nanopack.

 

Then make that fuel unviable for big ships and seasoned players.

By making it supper heavy or making it consume 10 times faster than regular space fuel.

 

That way new players could craft their own space fuel in nanopack but not alter the market balance of it.

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30 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Hum, my mistake then

I appreciate that you responded to each of my points with a separate excuse for why you were totally wrong.  ?

 

Just to make sure we've cleared up any confusion.

 

For anyone wanting to craft parts to get into space, on the Nanocrafter.  You can craft literally EVERYTHING you need to build an XS or S sized ship, on the Nanocrafter.

 

The ONLY thing you need, that you can't craft yourself, is the space fuel.

 

EDIT: Correction,  S Dynamic core can't be crafted on the Nano.  But all the S sized parts can be.  There's plenty of room on an XS core to build a ship that can easily haul a hundred tons.  So that shouldn't be stopping anyone from getting into space.

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20 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

For anyone wanting to craft parts to get into space, on the Nanocrafter.  You can craft literally EVERYTHING you need to build an XS or S sized ship, on the Nanocrafter.

 

The ONLY thing you need, that you can't craft yourself, is the space fuel.

Yea, This 100% truth, thank you. ( I just checked my self )

 

Even some M stuff can be crafted like hovers, adjusters and brakes.

 

I wonder if I simply imagined this or if the list of craftable elements was expanded since November. (last time i played properly)

 

 

So i was sure about the fuel (because last week i needed space fuel and went to buy all the industry and schematics needed to make it.)

But instead of limiting my self to what I was sure, I went with long term memory.

 

@blazemonger & @Atmosph3rik Sorry.

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For anyone who played before 0.23, schematics are going to feel like a harsh reality.

 

But in terms of the first few days, it's really not any harder for a new player to get into the game.  

 

Let's say the goal is to build a ship that can actually haul some ore.  So you're going to need a few S sized containers, and some M sized parts at least, that can't be made in the Nanocrafter.

 

Before 0.23 the easiest thing to do was mine a bunch of ore, and build a little factory.  The problem, once you've got your small hauler built, you also have a factory ready to produce ten more.  But no one to buy them, because everyone else has a little factory too.

 

Now, still, all you need to do is go out and mine a bunch of ore.  Then sell it, and buy some parts to build a ship. 

 

0.23 didn't make it harder to build a ship, it just made it harder to build a ship factory.  This is what JC was talking about with his iphone analogy.

 

If your goal was to build a ship factory, the game got a lot harder.  But if your goal is for that ship factory to have a purpose, then 0.23 was a step in that direction.

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51 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

For anyone who played before 0.23, schematics are going to feel like a harsh reality.

 

But in terms of the first few days, it's really not any harder for a new player to get into the game.  

 

Let's say the goal is to build a ship that can actually haul some ore.  So you're going to need a few S sized containers, and some M sized parts at least, that can't be made in the Nanocrafter.

 

Before 0.23 the easiest thing to do was mine a bunch of ore, and build a little factory.  The problem, once you've got your small hauler built, you also have a factory ready to produce ten more.  But no one to buy them, because everyone else has a little factory too.

 

Now, still, all you need to do is go out and mine a bunch of ore.  Then sell it, and buy some parts to build a ship. 

 

0.23 didn't make it harder to build a ship, it just made it harder to build a ship factory.  This is what JC was talking about with his iphone analogy.

 

If your goal was to build a ship factory, the game got a lot harder.  But if your goal is for that ship factory to have a purpose, then 0.23 was a step in that direction.

Imho being stuck grinding at the very beginning of the game is the worst possible start a game could offer.

Before .23 you could at least feel a bit of progression by building a couple of machines to ease crafting, I remember spending my daily quantas on machines rather than on piloting elements because the nanopack was so painfully slow that I couldn't really stand it. Having the starter xs core filled with machines was actually satisfying and that got me hooked. How many ppl are now satisfied after days of mindless mining?

 

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25 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

Imho being stuck grinding at the very beginning of the game is the worst possible start a game could offer.

Before .23 you could at least feel a bit of progression by building a couple of machines to ease crafting, I remember spending my daily quantas on machines rather than on piloting elements because the nanopack was so painfully slow that I couldn't really stand it. Having the starter xs core filled with machines was actually satisfying and that got me hooked. How many ppl are now satisfied after days of mindless mining?

 

 

You only have to grind as much as you want though.  The point wasn't to make people grind more, it was to actually slow people down.

 

It just doesn't makes sense to be able to plop down an assembly line and suddenly have the recipe for everything in the game.  It was fun, but it had to end.

 

It would have been fun, hypothetically, to have 999,999,999 of every item in your inventory, in pre-alpha.  But eventually the fun would have to end, hypothetically ?

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Ok so i double checked and here is the item needed for the frame of the Dynamic Core XS
And i have the items in the inventory but i am not able to craft it.
Just in case i had the items\ components in both my inventory and linked container at the same time.
No go, am I doing something wrong here or what?
It says it can be crafted in several difrent smelters but seems not to be possible in nano crafter.
image.thumb.png.200d458826d770f63b76551b3f88bc28.png

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Maybe i have a bug then because the quantity is not updating had one of the componets en etch swapinng active container and its not updating.
Unable to craft when i have them in nano pack or container. 

EDIT I figuerd it out !
Its the dam ownership property unclaimed in comtainer and it worked. 
Man i feel a bit dumb now..

I can`t place Dynamic Core down tough says i have reached max amount got one Static one. 
How can i get more am guessing its a skill for it.??

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2 hours ago, Watru88 said:

Maybe i have a bug then because the quantity is not updating had one of the componets en etch swapinng active container and its not updating.
Unable to craft when i have them in nano pack or container. 

EDIT I figuerd it out !
Its the dam ownership property unclaimed in comtainer and it worked. 
Man i feel a bit dumb now..

I can`t place Dynamic Core down tough says i have reached max amount got one Static one. 
How can i get more am guessing its a skill for it.??

I'm not in game to get the exact names, but the skills related to this are under Mining and Inventory. There are two paths you can train:
1. Active cores controls the number of cores you can have assigned to your character. It gives two cores per level. After hitting level 5 there is then an Advanced Active cores you can grain to further increase the core count by 1 or 2 per level.

2. Organization cores - If you are the legate of an organization you can use this skill. It gives 5 per level and you can assign the core to your organization when placing it. There are two additional Advanced Organization cores skills that increase the number of cores you can place by 100% per level.

If you plan on placing a lot of cores over time for a base or a large number of ships, it's much better to create an organization for your character and assign the cores to that. You can have far more cores under an organization than you can have assigned to your character.

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