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NQ does not want your ideas (or do they?)


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4 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

Yet, your logic is deeply flawed. 

 

Exact reason why people still wasting their energy here is because they care about game (granted -- now in quite bad way). Speaking of "to put off" -- no, most of this people in question in some point were (or still) seriously involved with game, invited a lot of friends (some even bought them copies) etc, made organizations, content. So they contibuted to survival of game. Its not some band of whiney degenerates who hates game and scares away newbies. No, mostly its ok productive people in bad mood, totaly targed audience playerbase.

 

Root cause of this, that 99% start from quite reasonable critics, ideas (not doom and gloom), but NQ quite miserably fails to manage this, channel such energies if not on something useful, then at least harmless. With growth of frustration, overall negativity grows too, eventualy to ugly forms we observe daily.  

 

In this light I constantly deeply questioning overall CMing strategy of this project.

No it is not deeply flawed, my late mother taught me a lot of things, the main one being there are twos ways to approach a problem, solve it, or walk away from it.  You are doing neither, your consistent baseless theorising (about both the game and NQ) does nothing to help the game or community, it just damages it further. If you like the game and want it to succeed then bloody show it, if not, sod off and leave us that want to support it to get on with it.  

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5 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Listen to me, listen to me, or I will tell everyone how I dont like your game!  Self entitlement at its greatest.

If you can find any lies in any of my statements, you can criticize me. Until then, you have no credibility.

 

On another note, I believe that new players should be given the facts. Right now, the game is in alpha state, no beta. That's the very first lie NQ has told. Pretty much their entire advertisement campaign is a lie. That's not fair to the perspective players at all.

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2 hours ago, Moosegun said:

how about we all just focus on the positives and the potential for at least one more patch!  I am really enjoying the game again, I see some light at the end of the tunnel and I hope GOD DAMN IT, it is not a train.......

It is not about positivity or negativity (which is a personal outlook) but perceiving the reality. We may be negative on our comments but that is reflective of the current situation. 

 

There is a difference between the end of a bore and an approaching train. You can tell the difference by looking at the wall. If the light is moving then that is a train. How about we be realistic than be faithful? It is a train man! You can tell the difference! The saying "there is always light at the end of a tunnel" tells you to always be positive regardless of any facts that is known and may become known. That is faith man, that is not realism! I'd rather be negative knowing things are going in the negative direction than be oblivious of the facts! 

 

Consider what is happening! 

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5 hours ago, Moosegun said:

how about we all just focus on the positives and the potential for at least one more patch!

 

I hope you realize what you are saying here.. I mean really..  As an Alpha tester you've been around for a while and frankly, if you do not yet recognize the pattern here you have not been paying attention.

 

That said, I indeed plan to give it one more chance with the coming patch.. IF NQ manages to once more shoot themselves in the foot, which yes, I fully expect them to do again, I may well decide to let go and move on, at least for the rest of the year until they release their miracle "release" patch in  9 months  (yes, we're counting single digit months to "release" now) which seems to be the one that will suddenly be a full game, have bugs fixed, be balanced and polished and all that, something that is currently completely not there yet..

 

If you actually paid attention to what some of us have been saying, there is almost always the hope that we're wrong and that NQ delivers.. unfortunately we're still very much on the "maybe next patch it will happen" train..

 

There certainly is light.. and it's getting closer. It's headlights of the 10 ton truck of "technical debt, a mountain of new functions, more work to be done and 10 months to do it all" though and NQ is the deer staring into the lights, frozen stiff just before it gets hit.

 

 

How  about we start looking at this with some sense of reality instead of blind optimism. Trust in a good outcome of what has the potential to get great needs to be earned and NQ has not been able to do that so far for me.

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8 hours ago, Moosegun said:

And yes, you have tried to improve, so how about we all do that, how about we all just focus on the positives and the potential for at least one more patch!  I am really enjoying the game again, I see some light at the end of the tunnel and I hope GOD DAMN IT, it is not a train.......

Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity. Being positive to the point of ignoring the glaring negatives isn't healthy and should not be encouraged.

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56 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity

 

I do not think anyone is toxic here but unbridled positivity and blind faith is dangerous as it will actually blind you to the facts.

 

The pattern NQ is in does not lie, their behavior is very predictable and has been the same since pre-alpha. many of us backers have been pointing that out for a long time and many who scolded us, called us toxic and negative have now pretty much left or given up for the exact reasons we always said they would.

 

The promise of DU is massive and it's potential to be great is certainly there. IMO though, NQ will not be able to make that promise a reality, not because the people actually working on the game are incapable but because from what I see, those that set the course and make the decisions lack a sense of reality. If your CEO and creative director does not see anything that would indicate that the game will not be ready for release by the end of 2021 while these red flags are glaringly obvious, how is he ever going to be able to make the choices and decisions needed to make the game work and get to "release" within 9 months from now OR have the understanding and realism to reset and rearrange the roadmap?

 

I for one would _really_ appreciate it if NQ found some courage somewhere and was able to say "we misjudged our ability to build the game we set out to build in the time we though it would take on the 2nd version of the roadmap. We need to rethink this and will soon present what we believe is a more realistic way forward". That alone would suddenly create so much space for them to really sit down and work this out instead of having to force feed "we must do all this by the end of the year". But it all feels like everything is driven by an extremely small and tight budget that forces a release by the end of the year for a fighting chance to survive. And that can only lead to one thing; NQ may tick all the boxes on what they say will be coming in this year but it wil be a buggy mess and only partially implemented. 

 

They will bring 0.24 with a very rudimentary version of the mission system, tick the box on the launcher page and that's it for 2021.. mission system done to not be revisited until after release because there simply is no time.

 

NQ got cold feet doing the new biomes because they are scared shitless regarding losing the little player base they have if they wipe for that to come in. So they just promise to bring a whole new solar system compete with star gates and all on top of everything else they need to do before release. The next big hurdle will be power management on planets as it will mean nearly the same as the biomes, entire bases will need to be moved and rebuilt unless NQ manipulates the way they assign this arbitrary value to tiles to "randomly" see the big org bases having been built on tiles that just happen to have sufficient energy output.

 

It's what you get when you try and sell a game which is hardly Alpha as a Beta and make promises you must know will be extremely limiting to your ability to actually develop the game. Setting the expectation that you will not wipe unless you _really_ have to and word it so vaguely that many take it as " we will not wipe" is just plan bad management of both expectations and your own ability to do your work. And again, it all points to being ins a situation where you need the revenue to survive.

 

And yes, I do expect we will start to see NQ cut cost (and corners) in the coming months.. As is usual the case in such situations, the support structure will be first to go so expect to see direct support by NQ on Discord go away for instance and NQ will start to lean on "community helpers" more and more as they are not on the payroll so it's a free workforce.

 

 

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5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

How  about we start looking at this with some sense of reality instead of blind optimism. Trust in a good outcome of what has the potential to get great needs to be earned and NQ has not been able to do that so far for me.

So much this

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So I ask yet again. Why are you still here? Just to make sure everyone else agrees with your opinion?

I think you are here because you feel butthurt that you dumped some backing money and didn't get exactly what you want.

It is not some altruistic community service to warn new players of the truth. If you were caring about others, you (the collective nay-sayers) would go away and stop constantly ruining the vibe here.

This behaviour is like having a partner that lies to you. What you are doing is telling them you love them and will give them another chance to stop lying while constantly telling them and everyone else that they can't do it.

 



'You're a liar and you cannot stop. You're a liar and you cannot stop. You're a liar, a liar and you cannot stop. I love you and I will give you the chance to get better. You're a liar.'

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5 minutes ago, Burble said:

So I ask yet again. Why are you still here? Just to make sure everyone else agrees with your opinion?

Called freedom of speach/expression. 

 

Why you still here too? You can make another topic about racing or something, if not enjoying this elite club of delopment analytics. 

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8 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Called freedom of speach/expression. 

 

Why you still here too? You can make another topic about racing or something, if not enjoying this elite club of delopment analytics. 

Fair question mate. I will probably get tired of this forum as will everyone else who wants the game to continue. Then it will be a forum full of an endless cycle of pointless rhetoric that NQ doesn't listen to and the active players don't listen to. Maybe that is almost what it already is.

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45 minutes ago, Burble said:

... as will everyone else who wants the game to continue.

Its very primitive, divisive concept (yet somehow ultra-popular between more "positive-minded" players), that people who more or less "behave" themselves are good for game/true playerbase and those who not (in different aspects of critics) -- are like only dreaming for its failure day and night, totaly not even playing.

 

Reality is far more complicated grey area.

 

Like some mega-vocal simp silently quit (to never be seen again), and grumpy-endless-posts guy still playing, even invited couple of friends. Who, in reality, speaking in your terms, are more useful for game and its continuation?

 

Also, speaking of examples, I think contributing factor of negativity here, that people like to fight not with ideas/opinions (by counter-arguments) but attack each other personaly (even if little bit masked way, like you do, Burble, with Blaze).

 

 

 

 

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So everyone who calls NQ out on smth or feels like this game could do much better when X was there or anyone who feels like X was a bad idea by NQ should just stfu and move on. 

Yeah, that will certainly be better for the game

 

Giving them flak for Bad decisions is as valid and good as giving them kudos for doing good stuff

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1 hour ago, Burble said:

So I ask yet again. Why are you still here? Just to make sure everyone else agrees with your opinion?

 

Because I still have some hope, thin as it may be, that NQ manages to pull this one out of the fire. I'm still here _because_ i believe DU can be a fantastic game with true endless possibilities (within reason of real expectations).

 

If players like me leave what's left? A bunch of bobbleheads who blindly accept and believe in whatever NQ tries to sell them. I just can't image people not seeing the cracks in the floor and the writing on the wall. NQ still has time to straighten the ship, they wil need more time than 9 months to do so, but it's there. 

 

Meanwhile, you are free to ignore my rambling and ranting if you like, just as much as I have every right to ramble and rant.

 

1 hour ago, Burble said:

I think you are here because you feel butthurt that you dumped some backing money and didn't get exactly what you want.

I came in to this project _expecting_ to not get what NQ promised. Their pitch has always been over promising and they would always underdeliver on that. But what I saw as possible was still well beyond anything done before.

 

And I actually get that what they set out to do was a massive undertaking especially for an inexperienced developer and I did not have a problem with at then and do not now. That NQ seems unable to actually learn from past mistakes and continue to make the same ones is what is my issue I have with them. That they are not the open and transparent company they said they would be during kickstarter is what I have issues with.

 

NQ making mistakes, creating damage in game and missing their deadlines I do not care about as that is part and parcel of the work they are doing., That they continue to refuse to take ownership and that hey do not care about actually cleaning up, learning from and moving past mistakes is getting to the point where I feel I may need to abandon ship.

 

I am not butthurt about he money I sank in to the game, even when well north of 4 digits in total. it's money that was mine to spend and mine to lose if that was the outcome, in fact I considered it lost the moment I spent it.  If NQ had actually done another crowd funding round last year instead of going public "beta" with a sub, I would have bought another pack if that allowed them to continue the work in private. If NQ has opened up a cash shop to support their development I would have probable spent money there.

 

That I am "butthurt because I'm not getting what I want" is an assumption that pretty much and very clearly defines how _you_ see this and not how I do. I shows _your_ cards, not mine.

 

 

1 hour ago, Burble said:

It is not some altruistic community service to warn new players of the truth. If you were caring about others, you (the collective nay-sayers) would go away and stop constantly ruining the vibe here.

And then what? People like yourself who are blind to facts and clear signals because you probably do not understand them are left to pretend all is well and chase off anyone who figures out what is happening?

 

 

I have praised NQ when they did things right, and they have. I will also continue to voice my opinion on when I believe they are not, which happen more frequent unfortunately.

 

NQ is in a very recognizable spiral of trying very hard to right a ship that is sinking.. slowly.. they are up to their ankles in water and are trying to stay afloat. This is not about lying or being truthful, this is about sink or swim. It's not about me wanting DU my way, it is about me wanting DU.. period..

 

I do not care if NQ needs more time, in fact I am fine with it as I fully expect they do. I also think that they have little choice and so will have to have a game out by this year's end. Problem is, they can't deliver what they say they will in that timeframe, it's just not happening. If NQ reset expectations on what we will get this year and then be clear about what comes after I'd be fine with that actually.

 

If you choose to believe NQ when they make the claim that hey will be able to deliver the game in a bug fixed, balanced and polished state with al the features they still have to (and committed to) add in the next 9-ish months then sure.. As far as I am concerned that message is unrealistic and believing it implies lack of a sense of reality as well. If NQ would come to their senses and provide a more realistic roadmap to a release than I would be all for that and if it takes them another two years or more I have no problem with that.

 

 

NQ is not lying, they are bluffing in the statements JC makes. Problem is their hand is rather weak against the cards on the table which makes the bluff easy to call.

 

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1 hour ago, le_souriceau said:

Its very primitive, divisive concept (yet somehow ultra-popular between more "positive-minded" players), that people who more or less "behave" themselves are good for game/true playerbase and those who not (in different aspects of critics) -- are like only dreaming for its failure day and night, totaly not even playing.

 

Reality is far more complicated grey area.

 

Like some mega-vocal simp silently quit (to never be seen again), and grumpy-endless-posts guy still playing, even invited couple of friends. Who, in reality, speaking in your terms, are more useful for game and its continuation?

 

Also, speaking of examples, I think contributing factor of negativity here, that people like to fight not with ideas/opinions (by counter-arguments) but attack each other personaly (even if little bit masked way, like you do, Burble, with Blaze).

 

 

 

 

I am not attacking anyone personally. Not masked or openly. I am describing a behavioural pattern that is both ineffective and harmful if we want the game to continue.

What you perhaps don't understand is that I agree with many of the problems that need to be fixed for the future. But I am not going to spend my time constantly shouting about it on the forum. That does not help the game. NQ does not listen here because majority of feedback by now is abusive and disrespectful, that is obvious. So the only thing that shouting on this forum achieves is turning away new players. New subscriptions = game continues. 

If you want to call me a fanboi, or 'simp' as the kids are now saying, then fine. I am not that, but I do not mind the personal attack.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Lethys said:

So everyone who calls NQ out on smth or feels like this game could do much better when X was there or anyone who feels like X was a bad idea by NQ should just stfu and move on. 

Yeah, that will certainly be better for the game

 

Giving them flak for Bad decisions is as valid and good as giving them kudos for doing good stuff

There is a big difference between respectfully calling out mistakes and constantly looking for reasons to drag the developer's name through the mud.

Look at the big picture. If you love the game:

-help new players get started

-advertise what is good about it
-be open about what is bad but do not constantly throw it in the spotlight
-DO throw what is good about the game in the spotlight
-Have an attitude towards the developers that says 'thank you for what you have done so far. If you want my feedback please ask'


NoRezevations earlier in the thread says they are staying here to warn new players about what is bad about NQ and this game. To me that is not constructive and it is not indicative of a person who loves the game and wants to see it continue.


You Alpha tagged people are the role models for how the general public will treat the game and the developers. If you cannot at least behave with some decorum and maturity then absolutely no one else will.

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14 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

It's not about me wanting DU my way, it is about me wanting DU.. period..

 

 

Then stop setting such a constant example for being negative about the developers. 

You are a role model for new players. Use it wisely if you want 'DU....period'

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36 minutes ago, Burble said:

-help new players get started

-advertise what is good about it
-be open about what is bad but do not constantly throw it in the spotlight
-DO throw what is good about the game in the spotlight
-Have an attitude towards the developers that says 'thank you for what you have done so far. If you want my feedback please ask'

1) sure

2) certainly

3) nope. Definitely keep the spotlight in bad things and make ppl aware what's wrong and right in this game. 

4) certainly. And also do that constantly ofc. Cause you know, only doing it for the positive is driving a narrative. And thats bad

5) no. Its more like. I play this game and here is my feedback. They dont have to ask for it, they get it anyway

40 minutes ago, Burble said:

You Alpha tagged people are the role models for how the general public will treat the game and the developers. If you cannot at least behave with some decorum and maturity then absolutely no one else will.

That's why I make ppl aware what's Bad in this game. I don't lure ppl in here (and never did) because I only tell them the good things. I tell them the full story and what's good and bad about du. It's just that there's little which is good and much that is bad to me 

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15 hours ago, Moosegun said:

And yes, you have tried to improve, so how about we all do that, how about we all just focus on the positives and the potential for at least one more patch!  I am really enjoying the game again, I see some light at the end of the tunnel and I hope GOD DAMN IT, it is not a train.......

The alpha forums where all about positivity. So much positivity and creativity that it bordered on the silly some times. But it can only stay that way for so long, when all actions (or lack of such) from NQ is tearing it apart. And then predictably the hopes and dreams are turned into frustration..

 

But relax. Even those of us that have stuck with this game since the very beginning, are now running out of energy. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my post count is in a sharp decline simply because I can't find the energy to bother any more. But is that a good thing?

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I've had more than my share of words already in this thread. I have no reason to fall out with anyone personally here. We are all the same type of people in the end, or at least, all came here looking for the promise of the same type of game. I've said my piece. You'll hear no more from me about this expansive topic. I am content to watch things happen in whatever direction the community pushes most strongly as a collective.

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If NQ atleast showed actual care for the negatives in DU people would not Need to put them in the spotlight But time and time again we see a totall ignorance on critique unless some vip throws it on YT or FB.

The we heard you post is just another example of this attitude.

 

Yes they did good stuff, but they also did bad stuff.

And what is unexusable is that they hold different rules for different people, that is not even bad, thats a leveled form of bad.

 

if they truly listened and actually looked at ideas opted here we would not have quanta based schematics but research based. We would not have people with 100+ schematics, we would have mergeble cores, we would have means to build infrastructures with voxels, we would have cores over 2 km, and more where that came from.

 

yes they do good stuff but in general Humanity doesnt remember good stuff, they only remember when shit hit the fan.

And sometimes there is so much of it that even the fan doesnt work anymore

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