JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 With new pvp updates coming, we need some sort of timer/shield protection for Space cores, and giving them a reason to be put in pvp space. Once that happens we can remove all abilities to warp to planet/moons and instead can only warp to warp beacons. Also take the time to fix them so the RDMS works on them, and actually include the duties to so people can charge per warp. Now we will have something to fight over in the outer planets, or reason for alliances/empires/federations to place warp beacons,. and protect them., and could make them public but add a small fee to be used. Asirmoth, XKentX and MopnexAndreyno 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vylqun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 43 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said: Once that happens we can remove all abilities to warp to planet/moons and instead can only warp to warp beacons. No. blazemonger, sHuRuLuNi, Maxim Kammerer and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaocordeiro Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, vylqun said: No. Nice answer. Specially for johnny. Any more text or justification will lead to him derail this into some hypothetical scenario where he may have a shred of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 57 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said: With new pvp updates coming, we need some sort of timer/shield protection for Space cores, and giving them a reason to be put in pvp space. Once that happens we can remove all abilities to warp to planet/moons and instead can only warp to warp beacons. Why? That suggestion makes absolutely zero sense unless you have a vested interest that happening. It's not enough that with Territory Warfare coming safezones go away, you are seriously saying that anyone but the rich and those who managed to benefit from the mistakes NQ made/makes should have the ability to control who can use Warp travel and who don't? I can not see any circumstance where this is even a suggestion worth considering but feel free to actually bring an argument that supports it, if you have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiturn Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, blazemonger said: Why? That suggestion makes absolutely zero sense unless you have a vested interest that happening. It's not enough that with Territory Warfare coming safezones go away, you are seriously saying that anyone but the rich and those who managed to benefit from the mistakes NQ made/makes should have the ability to control who can use Warp travel and who don't? I can not see any circumstance where this is even a suggestion worth considering but feel free to actually bring an argument that supports it, if you have one. It's just another excuse for newbies to be forced to be hunted due to lack of safe warp.These pvpers are relentless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Hiturn said: It's just another excuse for newbies to be forced to be hunted due to lack of safe warp.These pvpers are relentless So what happens when NQ removes safe zones in the outer planets, and you warp to a planet like Feli and you land and pvpers are waiting for you, and kill you. With my proposal you can warp and land in a protection bubble around the space station. So in effect, my idea actually helps prevent kills from warping haulers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 While Johnny and I may not see eye to eye on a lot of things, I do not take him as someone looking for easy kills and I do think he has a genuine desire to see PVP get better and more inclusive and engaging. And that makes his suggestion even more strange to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said: With my proposal you can warp and land in a protection bubble around the space station. So in effect, my idea actually helps prevent kills from warping haulers. That would be a fair argument if it included that the cost for a beacon should be 1/10 of what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, blazemonger said: Why? That suggestion makes absolutely zero sense unless you have a vested interest that happening. It's not enough that with Territory Warfare coming safezones go away, you are seriously saying that anyone but the rich and those who managed to benefit from the mistakes NQ made/makes should have the ability to control who can use Warp travel and who don't? I can not see any circumstance where this is even a suggestion worth considering but feel free to actually bring an argument that supports it, if you have one. Because right now warp beacons are pretty meaningless. And with no mechanic to protect space stations (similar to eves citadel timers) it makes them obsolete. We know for a fact they said warp wont be safe much longer, and we know for a fact safe zones are going away. So when they do if you warp to a planet you land at 0 and can be dead in the water to campers. So, by removing ability to warp to planets you can then warp to space station you have access to and land in its shield bubble or whatever NQ comes up with to land safe. These stations and beacons now become very valuable and strategic, and also allow for safe travel (if you can protect them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 True, beacons are meaningless though because they are well out of reach of anyone but the big orgs and then a mostly those who have been able to benefit from mistakes NQ has made in the past few months, enriching themselves in the process. I can agree that without further context your idea has merit but by positioning the beacon as they have, NQ have pretty much excluded what you suggest because it would hand control of warp mechanic to the rich few in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, blazemonger said: That would be a fair argument if it included that the cost for a beacon should be 1/10 of what it is now. I wouldn't mind seeing them come down in cost some. I was told (not sure if true) that the ore build cost is only 15mil for a beacon. So maybe 6 months to a year people can sell them for 50/100mil for a profit thus making them a little more viable for deploying them in pvp zones for warping. (Think eve fortizars, they are easily obtainable by even small groups of people). And I know for a fact there are always people who like to play light side jedi in games, so I'm sure people would try to create public ones for travel, and would use profits from the rdms to help defend. This actually creates dynamic power struggles that NQ claims they want to see in DU. And of course, leads to emergant gameplay, and also doesnt cater to "easy ganks" as space stations can be defended and also add lengthy timers depending on upgrades, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiturn Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said: So what happens when NQ removes safe zones in the outer planets, and you warp to a planet like Feli and you land and pvpers are waiting for you, and kill you. With my proposal you can warp and land in a protection bubble around the space station. So in effect, my idea actually helps prevent kills from warping haulers. Newbies and most solos would have no access to warp beacons and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hiturn said: Newbies and most solos would have no access to warp beacons and you know it. Newbies are gonna die when the outer safe zones drop, and they warp to the planet, and land with 5 pvp ships waiting to blast them. You are aware that's gonna happen right? Like, you know the outer safe zone is being removed right? Newbies will have access to warp beacons. RDMS, the D is for duties, which JC said we could charge a price to use something, such as, but not limited to, warp beacons. What a great money maker charging a small fee to use a public beacon so a newbie can warp and land in the protection of the space station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlybits Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hiturn said: Newbies and most solos would have no access to warp beacons and you know it. Space markets with public beacons could be a good way to bring in business. Even without the warp beacon, I would expect this to exist for higher grav planets like Alioth. Just do business for a slight markup in a nearby space market rather than dealing with agg or hauling to the planet. JohnnyTazer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, fiddlybits said: Space markets with public beacons could be a good way to bring in business. Even without the warp beacon, I would expect this to exist for higher grav planets like Alioth. Just do business for a slight markup in a nearby space market rather than dealing with agg or hauling to the planet. I would 100% pay an increased price to not have to deal with alioth. That's just me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 In the existing understanding of changes once the safe zones drop, it's not at all hard to at least seriously reduce the risk of getting caught and the coming counters in that regard as they are included in the PVP revamp it will be up to the orgs recruiting to educate their new members. Newbies should die when they make newbie mistakes. Getting killed in a game like DU needs to happen to establish a sense of loss and the value of mitigating risk. There is some serious and interesting data from CCP that shows that new players that die early on in them playing EVE are actually more likely to stick around and progress and I believe that for DU this certainly will hold true as well. Now that there is a bit more context around the OP I certainly think there is a good reason to actually have this discussion and it is one where it would be great to see NQ weigh in and engage even when I do not have much hope that they will beyond some superficial "great discussion guys, keep it going". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vylqun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said: So what happens when NQ removes safe zones in the outer planets, and you warp to a planet like Feli and you land and pvpers are waiting for you, and kill you. With my proposal you can warp and land in a protection bubble around the space station. So in effect, my idea actually helps prevent kills from warping haulers. They would still be able to do that if planets and moons remain warp points, its their own choice. There is absolutely no reason, not a single one, to remove the planets as warp points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, vylqun said: They would still be able to do that if planets and moons remain warp points, its their own choice. There is absolutely no reason, not a single one, to remove the planets as warp points. There is, to make warp beacons actually meaningful. These are end game items and are virtually meaningless. You will see a handful in the safe zone, for people with space stations to shave a couple minutes off a slowboat, but other than that they will never be used. Never be deployed In pvp zone. Why would they when i can just warp to a planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim Kammerer Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said: Never be deployed In pvp zone. Why would they when i can just warp to a planet? That depends on how asteroids will be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Maxim Kammerer said: That depends on how asteroids will be implemented. Perhaps, but supposedly asteroids are coming soon. And as it stands now, if you deploy a space core in the pvp zone, there is no protection. So someone can just blast it away while you are sleeping. So we wont see any Warp Beacons deployed outside the safe zone until that issue is addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vylqun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said: There is, to make warp beacons actually meaningful. These are end game items and are virtually meaningless. You will see a handful in the safe zone, for people with space stations to shave a couple minutes off a slowboat, but other than that they will never be used. Never be deployed In pvp zone. Why would they when i can just warp to a planet? Far from it, they will have quite a big significance even if planets remain warp-points: 1. space station hubs for space only haulers (no atmos elements means less warp cells for jumping and a higher possible load) 2. save exit points when warping towards PvP planets 3. hidden space stations relatively close to pvp planets 4. travelhub inbetween several planets to change the location for the warp exit after traveling to those planets 5. temporary deployment as rally point when ppl want to attack space stations or similar and there are probably many more, so don't worry about the value of warp beacons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, vylqun said: Far from it, they will have quite a big significance even if planets remain warp-points: 1. space station hubs for space only haulers (no atmos elements means less warp cells for jumping and a higher possible load) 2. save exit points when warping towards PvP planets 3. hidden space stations relatively close to pvp planets 4. travelhub inbetween several planets to change the location for the warp exit after traveling to those planets 5. temporary deployment as rally point when ppl want to attack space stations or similar and there are probably many more, so don't worry about the value of warp beacons. Those are all meaningless unless they implement some sort of protection like I suggested. And with the form of timers. There is a reason EvE operates this way. Everyone can handle losses, but to lose it, and especially the most expensive thing in the game, while you are sleeping or at work will lead to people never deploying them. Why would anyone spend 300mil for a beacon right now, deploy it, then log off for the night to only have it blown up while sleeping. Part of my proposal is to have some sort of timer/bubble protection like eve has. NQ has talked about territories on the planet, but not one word has been mentioned of space stations. Without this warp beacons wont be used outside a few trade areas in the safe zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vylqun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Just now, JohnnyTazer said: Those are all meaningless unless they implement some sort of protection like I suggested. And with the form of timers. There is a reason EvE operates this way. Everyone can handle losses, but to lose it, and especially the most expensive thing in the game, while you are sleeping or at work will lead to people never deploying them. don't mix up two points that have nothing to do with each other. Your topic stated 2 main suggestions: "protect warp beacons" and "disable planets as warp beacons". I'm arguing about the second one, and so did you in the answer to my posts. There is no reason to change the argument to protection now, as it doesn't invalidate my arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTazer Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, vylqun said: don't mix up two points that have nothing to do with each other. Your topic stated 2 main suggestions: "protect warp beacons" and "disable planets as warp beacons". I'm arguing about the second one, and so did you in the answer to my posts. There is no reason to change the argument to protection now, as it doesn't invalidate my arguments. I stated that in my original post. All your arguments are invalid because without protection no one would do any of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim Kammerer Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said: And as it stands now, if you deploy a space core in the pvp zone, there is no protection. So someone can just blast it away while you are sleeping. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Constructions in PvP zone do and will require permanent defence. That makes them limited to big international orgs only. They will use warp beacons to mine valuable asteroids in deep space as fast as possible. You are pretty much suggesting to give them control over the outer planets as well. I don't share your optimism that they would provide public access for a reasonable fee. They would reather limit access to their own members and lock their bridgeheads for everybody else in order to get exclusive control over the recources. I wouldn't even surprised about letters of marque to fight slowboating with piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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