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[Discussion] DevBlog: The Mission System


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3 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

That is not strictly true though, the pirate gets to choose the engagement and is generally not going into the fight risking cargo, if you are entering fights with the same risk then you are doing it wrong.  There is nothing wrong with that though, pirates throughout history have preyed on the weak / undefended, they are PIRATES ffs.  NEVER in history did a pirate have a choice between attacking a whaler and a frigate and chosen the frigate.

Yep but without good intel a lot of people will not know their target is a hauler or a warship until they are already in lock range.

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3 minutes ago, k3rmit said:

There are no counter-measures to pirates. If they catch you, you die. There is no way of escaping. Arming a hauler is also not viable as they can out-gun you.

Warp is the only option for safe travel.

 

Player-driven police force doesn't make sense - it would be unprofitable

There is no real punishment for piracy, no jail, no perma-death, not even reputation. Even if a pirate dies, he just respawns.

 

Even in the current system this is untrue, this actually leads to another problem. A bad ship for pvp zone take seconds / minutes to kill, a ship built for the zone can take hours to kill and thousands and thousands of L rounds...

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1 minute ago, Physics said:

Even in the current system this is untrue, this actually leads to another problem. A bad ship for pvp zone take seconds / minutes to kill, a ship built for the zone can take hours to kill and thousands and thousands of L rounds...

If you build a ship for pvp how much power you have left for transporting cargo? I'd like to see a hauler that takes hours to kill...

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9 minutes ago, k3rmit said:

Player-driven police force doesn't make sense - it would be unprofitable

 

SORRY really not a good enough, you dont even have a clue how much it will cost but you dismiss it out of hand.  Suggests you arent actually that open minded about the whole thing 

I actually know orgs that would defend haulers just for the laughs if it meant pvp.

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Just now, k3rmit said:

If you build a ship for pvp how much power you have left for transporting cargo? I'd like to see a hauler that takes hours to kill...

My team hauls KT’s of weight on heavy armour ships often. Last few pirates that tried to gank us are now trophies in a room..

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So hauling missions.....guess I called it right xD 

 

Depending on how they do aphelia missions, markets will lag out even more now. My guess: aphelia only creates missions from market A to B. GL doing those I guess - markets lag out for me even now when noone is around.

 

So what you get is an unfinished and untested system with hauling missions only for now ("but the dreams! The possibilities! Just think of what will be possible!" - can already hear the fanbois) while at the same time you don't even have org wallets. Nice, I guess.

 

Also, how to prevent ppl from hiding that Target container from you? 

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2 minutes ago, Physics said:

My team hauls KT’s of weight on heavy armour ships often. Last few pirates that tried to gank us are now trophies in a room..

What's your team? I'd like to see the hauler that not only survived pirate attack, but also killed them and brought home.

 

3 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

I actually know orgs that would defend haulers just for the laughs if it meant pvp.

Why aren't they? Any ads, offers?

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1 hour ago, smurfenq said:

Us pirates would like to have a piece of the cake you know. 

And you will get your shot (pun) .. once safezones go away and/or proper counters come into play bringing the risk/reward of slow boating to an acceptable level.

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14 minutes ago, Subakai said:

More important to me would be a list of other issues that are truly missing. These include:

* A working journal. Items sold, items purchased, transaction history...
* Please, a working email system for in game communications between players who may log on at different times from each other.

* A list of game active org members in chat, maybe with a "do not disturb" function.

* Wallets, and a transaction system between players and orgs.
 

Realy Same man !

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Here are a bunch of ways people can abuse this system presented in the devblog:

 

Method 1: Making it mechanically impossible to complete the mission.

 

- Abuser issues the mission. Puts something of low value in it (e.g. 1 L of quarts).
- Assigns a very high collateral and reward to it.

- Innocent hauler accepts it.

- Abuser scoops the mission container, kill its construct, or does whatever else it takes to mechanically make it impossible to finish the mission.

- Mission fails, abuser gets the collateral in exchange of 1 L of quartz.

 

Solution: Add "if something happens to the mission containers" rule to cases in which the mission is voided.

 

Method 2: Camping the mission destinations. 

 

- The same steps as above. Except in the 4th step, the abuser(s) will select a PvP space construct as either origin or the destination. They will then camp it for both free kills and also the collateral money.

 

Solution: Unfortunately I suggest an elimination of Space Stations in PvP space as mission origins or destinations.

 

Method 3: Contracting extremely massive or high volume stuff.

 

- The same steps as above. Except in the 4th step, the abuser(s) will issue the mission for impossibly heavy or large stuff.

 

Solution: The mass/volume of the stuff should be not only revealed, but also sortable on the Job Forum for the contractor runner quality of life.  

 

Not only that, but hauling contents shouldn't be really be hidden from the mission runner. I am sure there are more abuses waiting to happen around this that I am missing.

 

My 2 Cents:

 

Taking contracts from Eve and calling them missions is highly misleading for both your existing players and for new players (even your shareholders). These aren't missions. If you call them missions post-beta, the new players will be disappointed when they begin doing them after they hear there are missions in DU and buying the game.

 

Contracts are great to have in DU. They have greater potential than Eve as well. One thing that doesn't exist for example is a "kill" contract for a specific ship. That can be achieved in DU with modifications to the RDMS system plus adding the type to the contracts.

 

Friendly Note:

 

These are all very grave issues that are also easy to predict. For the love of god, please hire a designer with extensive knowledge of Eve history and mechanics to avoid issues arose in that game. You don't have to reinvent the wheel with each feature. You can even hire me as a remote feature consultant for 1000 euros a month :P.

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1 hour ago, smurfenq said:

you can't have that if there are NQ-enforced safezone

Outside of the triangle there won't be, why do some keep trying to ignore the fact NQ has been very clear on when thee safezones around planets will go away and that they will go away.

 

But we all know that once they do, the measures that come into play combined with TW (as in ECM and I hope counters like decoys) will then be the next thing "pirates" will start crying over.

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5 minutes ago, Olmeca_Gold said:

Method 1: Making it mechanically impossible to complete the mission.

Quote

The destruction of the destination container does not fail the mission. Instead, the mission responder can keep the package and open it without penalty; however, this means the mission cannot be completed anymore.

I guess, this also means that the collateral is returned?

 

Quote

 The package can be retrieved or delivered by interacting directly with the associated container (via context-menu entries) or within a 2km range by using the controls on the interface.

This should prevent hiding the container

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6 minutes ago, Olmeca_Gold said:

Here are a bunch of ways people can abuse this system presented in the devblog:

Several of these concerns were actually addressed in a suggestion I posted on and added to the upvote pages weeks ago. The suggestion was deleted by NQ without comment.

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Just now, blazemonger said:

Outside of the triangle there won't be, why do some keep trying to ignore the fact NQ has been very clear on when thee safezones around planets will go away and that they will go away.

 

But we all know that once they do, the measures that come into play combined with TW (as in ECM and I hope counters like decoys) will then be the next thing "pirates" will start crying over.

How does 3 whole safe planets not ruin the whole players make history and decide EVERYTHING that happens in game? The whole reason why there wont be any counter meassures is because there is no reason for players to start a project like that, because NQ provides it for you.

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I want to know can I :

 

1) Put down a mission container, and ask that XYZ be delivered to it within 48 hours -> generate mission. No collateral is needed as the price paid would naturally reflect whatever I'm willing to pay for the item + delivery fee. 

 

That alone would service 80% of my shipping needs. The shipping things to a market is cool and all but what we REALLY need is a way to import to a non market location missions. I personally find most of my problems with outsourcing movement of goods revolve around getting imports reliably delivered in a searchable format rather then constantly having to word of mouth everything.

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1 minute ago, Xennial said:

I want to know can I :

 

1) Put down a mission container, and ask that XYZ be delivered to it within 48 hours -> generate mission. No collateral is needed as the price paid would naturally reflect whatever I'm willing to pay for the item + delivery fee. 

 

That alone would service 80% of my shipping needs. The shipping things to a market is cool and all but what we REALLY need is a way to import to a non market location missions. I personally find most of my problems with outsourcing movement of goods revolve around getting imports reliably delivered in a searchable format rather then constantly having to word of mouth everything.

I think you want collateral. The mission can be accepted by only one person. Without collateral they could take the mission and disallow others to complete it.

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29 minutes ago, k3rmit said:

If you build a ship for pvp how much power you have left for transporting cargo? I'd like to see a hauler that takes hours to kill...

VR - Band of outlaws piracy museum. Providence on the dock there has no weapons but would still take thousands of rounds to break the armour.

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I forgot to say before <3 I didn't see it mentioned.... Is it possible to offer more than Quanta as rewards? <insert long winded video rant here>

If we could over ship blueprints, stacks of parts, ores, etc. rewards it would add more options for missions :P 

I see that there is open dialogue that would allow for that in the negotiations, which is awesome, but having that reward visible up front (SHIP IMAGE in 3D rotating super cool animation GIFs etc etc) would be cool.

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2 minutes ago, Physics said:

VR - Band of outlaws piracy museum. Providence on the dock there has no weapons but would still take thousands of rounds to break the armour.

OK, so basically, be in a huge pirate org, otherwise don't even bother hauling?

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2 minutes ago, k3rmit said:

OK, so basically, be in a huge pirate org, otherwise don't even bother hauling?

Providence was a solo build. But regardless it still comes down to a fact that there is a huge difference between ships built to survive or warp on the cheap

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@NQ

Will it be possible to set up repeating missions? Instead of having to place a new mission regularly, allow us to set a condition for a repeating mission. Perhaps a timer, or a condition for the mission container?

Also, it would be really really nice if this system could be linked to existing systems such as LUA scripting and RDMS.

  • Allow us to set temporary rights for someone doing a specific mission. This would allow access to restricted areas for the purpose of the mission.
  • Allow us to trigger the creation of missions through LUA coding. Output container full? Set a mission to haul to market.
  • Allow us to set limits on missions like dispensers. Cooldown, max uses per person, etc.
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34 minutes ago, smurfenq said:

How does 3 whole safe planets not ruin the whole players make history and decide EVERYTHING that happens in game? The whole reason why there wont be any counter meassures is because there is no reason for players to start a project like that, because NQ provides it for you.

We can argue whether the permanent safezone is too big sure.. well actually no, we agree it is ;)

NQ has announced that counter measures, specifically ECM and shields will be coming and likely with the revamp of combat PVP..

 

But as we're talking about NQ here.. who knows what will happen eventually..

 

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