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So, when is the game getting rolled back?


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After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to

The only thing that saves this burning dumpster fire besides removing all ill gotten schematics or a rollback is to flat come out now and say there will be a full wipe before release. Seriously NQ, yo

Why is this such a hard thing to fix?  Just find those purchases in the database, refund the money to the player, and remove the schematics.  It might be too late by now, players may have already made

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56 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:

 

 

 

And here we have it, NQ is completely clueless about their own mistakes and the fallout it has on the game. Once more they allow the big orgs to take advantage of the blunders NQ makes and seems afraid to take corrective action. NQ seems entirely oblivious about their own game and in the process continues to cause damage and harm that is left as is..

 

Until one or a handful of players make a mistake that causes no harm really to then come down hard and ban these players from the game.. It seems NQ is hell bent of seeing their game fail.

 

As and example of how this should be handled:

 

During an event in EVE, CCP by mistake seeded original blueprints for a faction battlecruiser. Doing so causes great potential for damage to the economy of the game and so CCP immediately announced the mistake and told player  to not copy or research these blueprints and also that all blueprints seeded would be removed form the game, collected blueprints would be exchanged for copies as intended and any copied or researched blueprints made by players would be removed.

 

Put in the same situation NQ would not even recognize the potential damage and just shrug it off. They just allowed big orgs to obtain high tier schematics like warp beacons at less than the production cost of such item, pretty much handing these orgs free beacons, just like they allowed these same orgs to obtain scanner, warp drives an d similar items day 1 of the pre-beta by dropping wrecks with  such items in the world. And NQ thinks that is fine.

 

This is a massive blunder to begin with and a spineless response showing NQ really does not actually care for the game and/or it's community.

 

If they do not change their attitude the game _wil_ fail.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Utlaen said:

It was when they banned Scoopy so it is now by their logic.

I don't know who Scoopy is and the story around it.
But even so, it is not technically a bug.
You are going the wrong path by claiming otherwise, be smarter, go higher.

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2 minutes ago, DreejL said:

I don't know who Scoopy is and the story around it.
But even so, it is not technically a bug.
You are going the wrong path by claiming otherwise, be smarter, go higher.

Tell them not me, I know thats not a bug.

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7 minutes ago, Utlaen said:

Tell them not me, I know thats not a bug.

That's clearly not comparable honestly..
Those guys intentionally destroyed a "NPC" building to take advantage of the salvaged materials and/or, just to be destructive and negative.
Furthermore, and then, and only then, comes the question about bug or mistake.
We don't know if it was a mistake from NQ by not changing the building status or if they did but it was bugged.

Anyway, this is not the topic.

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5 minutes ago, DreejL said:

That's clearly not comparable honestly..
Those guys intentionally destroyed a "NPC" building to take advantage of the salvaged materials and/or, just to be destructive and negative.
Furthermore, and then, and only then, comes the question about bug or mistake.
We don't know if it was a mistake from NQ by not changing the building status or if they did but it was bugged.

Anyway, this is not the topic.

Of course is not comparable, destroying one market vs destroying the economy. First case some guys get banned, second case, nothing.

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Roll it back, or dock the correct amount of quanta from the players wallets and set up bots to sell BP's back to at the same price they are currently sold for

 

Easy

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16 minutes ago, Utlaen said:

Of course is not comparable, destroying one market vs destroying the economy. First case some guys get banned, second case, nothing.

NQ is destroying the economy, not the players intentionally.
They took advantage of NQ's mistake.

 

The blame is still NQ, not the players who bought those.

I've canceled auto sub renew, so i'm quite not pleased with NQ's Status Quo choice, even though i'm not an industrialist, i find their attitude shocking.
I hope, that they made this choice because they know that in the end, there will indeed be a wipe.
A wipe they cannot talk about, because they want the players to play the game at its full potentionnal in order to make it better.
Or,
The amount of players that took advantage of this is so small that they have assumed it won't impact the economy that much.
Or,
They simply have no tools to take action about this

Either way, it would be interesting to let the player base know how much players took advantage of this situation in order for each and everyone of those player to judge by themselves the impact it could have in the long term.
Either way, this is hard decision.. and once again, sadly, they chose the wrong one in my opinion.

(first being to drop the Schematics prices, so you can see on what side i'm on, if any sides at all)

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1 minute ago, DreejL said:

NQ is destroying the economy, not the players intentionally.
They took advantage of NQ's mistake.

 

The blame is still NQ, not the players who bought those.

I've canceled auto sub renew, so i'm quite not pleased with NQ's Status Quo choice, even though i'm not an industrialist, i find their attitude shocking.
I hope, that they did those choice because they know that in the end, there will indeed be a wipe.
A wipe they cannot talk about, because they want the players to play the game at its full potentionnal in order to make it better.
Or,
The amount of players that took advantage of this is so small that they have assumed it won't impact the economy that much.
Or,
They simply have no tools to take action about this

Either way, it would be interesting to let the player base know how much players took advantage of this situation in order for each and everyone of those player to judge by themselves the impact it could have in the long term.
Either way, this is hard decision.. and once again, sadly, they chose the wrong one in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree 100%. Frustration is making me argue about minor details sorry.

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9 minutes ago, DreejL said:

Either way, it would be interesting to let the player base know how much players took advantage of this situation in order for each and everyone of those player to judge by themselves the impact it could have in the long term.

 

Based on this and previous issues it's not unreasonable to assume NQ actually does not have the logging to actually know and so they just stick their head in the sand.

 

They will once more just plug their fingers into their ears and go "Na Na NANA Na" until this goes away again.. or so they hope it will.

IMO of course..
 

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1.) Yes some people made out like bandits.

2.) There are still a lot of us who were actually mining/industry setup/etc, what your suggesting to correct those in number 1 would F up those in number 2. You may well be a number 2, however not all of us want to get slapped in the face for our hard-work during that time so you can be satisfied. Nuff said.

 

I can agree AND disagree on NQs decision. Yes it is crappy ppl took advantage of an error. Some didn't. Typically, most cases favor both parties, keep peoples work and effort and let the advantageous people keep their stuff.

 

P.S. Those are my thoughts, not trying to troll here, but NQ has to let it be a wash to both parties.

 

llama GIF by chuber channel

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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

Based on this and previous issues it's not unreasonable to assume NQ actually does not have the logging to actually know and so they just stick their head in the sand.,.

IMO of course..

Probably yes.
But they could reimbursed when they decided to drop Schematic prices, so they do have logs.
Idk...

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48 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

Well i spent 10 hours yesterday building.

 

NQ's mistake cost me nothing.  A rollback would cost me 10 hours of work.

 

So there is a reason not to rollback.

 

Without knowing the extent of the damage caused by NQ's mistake.  It's hard for me to say whether they made the right decision.  But i think everyone in here should keep in mind that NQ DOES know the extent of the damage.  And none of us do.

 

So here we are /shrug

The real argument against a rollback are the ppl that were flying. How would you react if you login and your ship is no longer where you parked it last time but it has been brought back out of the safe zone or mid-air with full cargo because you happened to be flying at the moment they've chosen to rollback to?

I bet many ppl are not willing to deal with such loss.

 

Btw it's somehow clear that a wipe will happen, but NQ can't say it because it'll make a lot of ppl quit. 

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This decision just activelly feels like it is spitting in the faces of the Majority of the community that either could not or chose not to partake in an exploit. 0.23 was a bitter pill to swallow for many as it was but those that stuck it out grinded/collaborated together to get personal/corprate industry running again spending stupid amounts of hours mind numbingly mining, and buying into industry again are now getting tossed to the curb because you can never catch up to those who have partook in this. The cost for me to recoup my scematics is months with stupid bot inflated prices, these exploiters recoup the cost by selling one of the 100's of BP's they bought and now effectively have near endless access to funds and potentially the entirity of what is craftable.

 

As a legitimate player I cannot compete.

 

You have singlehandedly made the entire point of schematics pointless and devalued mine and many of the palyerbases time they had invested.

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14 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

The real argument against a rollback are the ppl that were flying.

 

A rollback is not a solution in this case. What should have happened here is that the market transactions involving any affected items during the time this issue was present should have been reverted and refunded, especially regarding the schematics as it has lasting effects. Those filling buy orders with bot prices being massively low get a one time benefit so meh.. The schematics damage is much more severe though and allowed a massive lasting advantage to those that bought hem.

This is not rocket science, it's basic insight in your own game, something unfortunately NQ keeps showing they are pretty clueless about.

 

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The funny part is that almost the entire playerbase (that does not frequent these welcoming and positive energy filled forums) don't even know what happened thus enabling them to keep enjoying the game just the same as before.

But I can still understand why some of us here are reacting like this:

tenor.gif

I wish there was a way to fix it so everyone was happy but at this point the only result of making public changes to the server is to highlight the issue to even more players who may lose the fun because of it.

I mean, we could ask the people who exploited it to just... give the schematics back for the sake of the game. But that wont happen.

The real question now is... If those who are now jumping out the window in disgust had seen the prices and been online to buy schematics...would you have passed the opportunity by and called the NQ office to get them to fix it? Or would you have purchased them just as some others have. And if that had been the case, would you own up and return the schematics now 'for the good of the game'?

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NQ had a very small window to execute a rollback. It might not have even been feasible if they didn't snapshot the data before the production rollout.

 

This decision had to be made minutes after they realized the issue -- I don't know NQ's internal decision-making structure, but my guess is that JC made this call. 

 

Please remember that NQ's devs are spending all day wrestling with an old codebase trying to implement features that were never planned for while also trying to fix six years worth of bugs. I do sympathize.

 

Morale is a huge deal in dev -- they're facing a narrowing timeline for releasing a big update, subscription churn, and mountains of tech debt. Disciplined release procedures aren't likely the top of their list.

 

They might not even have approval to run a dev/test server -- DynamoDB can get pricey. 100 TB of storage is about $25k a month -- that's over 3,000 subs worth of revenue. Spinning up a dev instance is material at that scale (I have no idea how much they stash in Dynamo vs. Mongo or how much data they really have). They surely have a test environment, but possibly not a replication of production data due to cost. 

 

A careful reversion where they query the DB to precisely target and roll back exploiters...? That isn't necessarily simple -- it may not even be possible. We can only guess about what data NQ actually logs or how it is structured! 

 

If they don't even have a real dev environment to test changes to production data, doing a reversion like this would only introduce more risk. 

 

I'd be very nice to know how widespread this exploit actually was -- are we talking a small handful of players, or trillions in schematics? I guess time will tell? 

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14 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

The real argument against a rollback are the ppl that were flying. How would you react if you login and your ship is no longer where you parked it last time but it has been brought back out of the safe zone or mid-air with full cargo because you happened to be flying at the moment they've chosen to rollback to?

I bet many ppl are not willing to deal with such loss.

 

I hadn't even considered the "ships in motion" factor.  That would really be a mess lol

 

I think a lot of people here aren't fully considering what a rollback would look like, if NQ had decided to do one this morning.

 

There's a good chance 90% of the player base doesn't even know what happened.  They're just minding their own business playing the game.  A rollback would mean 100% of the player base logs back in to a dumpsterfire, guaranteed.

 

I think we can all agree that NQ should stop doing stuff like this.  And i'm sure they agree too.

 

But we literally don't have enough info to know if they made the right decision or not.  Just a lot of guessing going on 

 

 

 

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what you say,  The first mistake was to let some players keep millions and millions what could have been easy fixed, then alot of similar things followed and now we have this.

 

For some reason it has no lasting effect according to NQ when some players, i guess the usuals, have a gamebreaking advantage in a game that is to build long lasting civilizations and have organizations wage war against each other through PvP.

 

No influence whatever.

 

So when the United states had nuclear weapons and actually used them during WW2 that had no influence whatever on the rest of history.

 

Some game elements are at the moment almost impossible to build due to schematic prices but now some people can just build whatever they like while the rest of the universe cannot, and this is not intended either?

 

So some people kill your economy and with that Any possibility to release this game positive with no grudge on it And full trust of the people who actually tested the game through pre-alpha, alpha and beta? then I do Not understand why the reaction is to do nothing.

 

However, if this was no mistake but an intend then everything makes sence.

 

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2 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:

 

This is completely unacceptable. I don't think you understand what "100x" is. If a player spent the money they got from 2 months of playing, anyone else now needs to spend almost 17 years to accomplish what they did in 5 minutes. There is absolutely no integrity in the game now, there are people with billions who should not have it at all; and even worse since it is in the form of expensive schematics you've given them the license to print money for as long as the play the game.

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32 minutes ago, Burble said:

The real question now is... If those who are now jumping out the window in disgust had seen the prices and been online to buy schematics...would you have passed the opportunity by and called the NQ office to get them to fix it? Or would you have purchased them just as some others have. And if that had been the case, would you own up and return the schematics now 'for the good of the game'?

I like to think my mother raised me well enough not to have impulsions as those.
In fact, if i were in markets at that moment, i would've pinged an NQ Staff on #help immediately.
Believe it or not.
I could go further and explain my political opinions as well to prove my good faith, but this is unneccessary and outtopic.

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10 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

This is completely unacceptable. I don't think you understand what "100x" is. 

The issue is that NQ does not understand period.. They simply do not get it and thus keep fumbling around allowing the same group of players to consistently benefit from the mistakes NQ makes while on the other end lashing out at isolated incidents and individual players without ever even remotely taking ownership of their own failing and mistakes. They keep shielding some while punishing the rest and seem to be actually clueless they are doing this. If they are aware that woud make it even worse.

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History lesson: Several months ago and long before dreaded patch .23 there was a patch day we lovingly called "Batch Enhancement Day".  It was hilarious.  Basically if you had a big enough factory then it ended up making MASSIVE amounts of certain items, like just a mind boggling amount of em.  It instantly made near billionaires of a few guild members when the sold the items to the bots.  Obviously unintended and seriously game breaking, so we waited for the wipe/reset......

 

It never came.  Ever.

 

After that we knew that NQ either can't rollback or is unbelievably unwilling to rollback, no matter what.  When cluster**** patch .23 happened a few newer guild members expected a rollback, we laughed at them.  They may revert some changes, but rolling back the entire servers is just not going to happen.

 

And it still won't happen.

 

So, anybody got an extra warp beacon schematic?  I would like to get that line up and running again for my bro.

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