blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said: You all are talking about a detection zone, on a ship, parked at a market, being able to log the names of any players that walk past it? That's all right? They are referring to the small pillars that are placed close to the elevators at markets. They have a sensor and when someone comes in range the claim is that the timestamp and the player ID is logged. There is no proof here this is actually happening at all, it's entirely based on hearsay/speculation. Your average supermarket has more advanced tracking these days, including facial recognition. I really do not understand the issue here but seeing who is OP, it's not entirely unlikely this is just an attempt to stir the pot a bit as it would not be the first time OP does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 11 hours ago, GraXXoR said: Imma jus' gonna stop you there fella'... OP said nothing about embedding code in a player... And where the actual f... did you get the idea that someone took out MP15 "with this type of code" That's some serious imagination you got there... Unbridled extrapolation and crowbarring irrelevant shit like NQ's RDMS error on MP15 into an argument about data gathering is how groups like QAnon get their first toehold... Shit may have got real but your arguments are anything but. And... BOOM... now we have the expected ignorant, kneejerk personally-offended redneck responses... Just like Newsmax. This needs to be nipped in the bud. The game does NOT allow you to "Plant" LUA on someone. A sensor can be used to detect the presence of a player or construct. This is usually for automation, such as a sliding door, activating a screen or switching on lights. However, it can also store a timestamp and the ID of a player. THAT IS ALL... It can't tell what you're doing. It can't read the contents of your Nanopack. The MP15 was disassembled by players. No LUA was used. However, as with everything NQ, they turned a minor and somewhat amusing mistake (In a game labelled BETA that is still actually ALPHA) into a catastrophy of biblical proportions as only JC can manage. Why? NQ amusingly banned paying customers for disassembling MP15 due to applying poor RDMS permissions, to much fanfare and handwaving. No LUA was used. This would have been pretty much kosher were it not for the even more amusing fact that NQ had just days before EXPLICITLY stated that RDMS settings are 100% the responsibility of the owner and that they, NQ, would point blank refuse to assist players who had had their shit stolen by other players playing the game since it was basically their own stupid fault for not learning how to use the RDMS. Yet when NQ made a mistake, they treated as a personal attack and went into super-defensive mode with "surgical precision" in punishing the miscreants. Banning them from the game. Much like their response to the people that bought schematics mistakenly sold for a 99% discount... oh wait. Just like most of the players here, you know nothing about sustainment. It is the most important part of any game, but you are completely oblivious to it. 1. I didn't say anything about planting luas on people or that the totem is somehow illegal or against policy. It's in the game and being used for dirty gameplay 2. I may be a redneck, but you are dumber than a bag of rocks. You super-awesome-corporate-pvp-pirate-griefing gamers are only helping at destroying the SUSTAINMENT of this game. The game in its current trajectory, with the devs default response to problems being - do nothing, players taking things too far, and 2 more mass exodus on the horizon, the sustainment of this game is just not there. P.S. Just like newsmax?? You do realize that the current president of the USA is a fukn potato LMAO! you need to stop with the politics sweetheart. You can only win in an echo chamber of potatoes, where other potatoes will come to your rescue lol. Remember, you can be dumber than a bag of rocks, just don't go full potato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 20 minutes ago, Hazaatan said: It's in the game and being used for dirty gameplay Please provide us with te documentation showing this is the case. You are making a direct accusation towards someone else action here and I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion. And no, this is not an opinion nor are you free to make such accusations without being able to back it up. It's in the game for dirty gameplay how exactly? What evidence do you have to substantiate that statement? Collecting data on which playerID was within a specific range of an elevator at a specific market hardly constitutes "dirty gameplay" and that is the only data this construct can collect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triopalite Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Mind games perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atmosph3rik Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Hazaatan said: It's in the game and being used for dirty gameplay If you think creating a log of players who are visiting a market is dirt gameplay. Wait until you find out that you can actually blow up people's ships and murder them in this game! /gasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 58 minutes ago, blazemonger said: Please provide us with te documentation showing this is the case. You are making a direct accusation towards someone else action here and I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion. And no, this is not an opinion nor are you free to make such accusations without being able to back it up. It's in the game for dirty gameplay how exactly? What evidence do you have to substantiate that statement? Collecting data on which playerID was within a specific range of an elevator at a specific market hardly constitutes "dirty gameplay" and that is the only data this construct can collect. Ok hero. The guy with 3 alt accounts is running a totem to gather your information without your permission, to then sell it to corporations. Does that sound familiar?? It is literally, in most parts of the world and defiantly in the USA, ILLEGAL. Companies get sued and have to pay large fines for doing what this player is doing in the game. What is wrong with your brain? This is my justification for dirty gameplay. Allowing dirty gameplay sets a bad precedence, and is a negative variable when determining sustainability of a game. If this player wants to be legit, then a sign needs to be put up that clearly states, IF YOU USE THIS AUCTION HOUSE YOUR NAME, TIME, CORPORATION INFORMATION WILL BE LOGGED AND USED AT OUR DISCRETION. Then the player is responsible for their privacy. Now it's your turn. Explain to us how you justify an act in a game, that is illegal in real life. How can you see this as 'just part of the game'. Because something is used to do something legit, it should be allowed to be used for something not legit? Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said: If you think creating a log of players who are visiting a market is dirt gameplay. Wait until you find out that you can actually blow up people's ships and murder them in this game! /gasp just STFU. really, just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeddrick Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 IMO this type of gameplay is great and should be encouraged. But there should be some counter-gameplay as well. If I don't want to appear in the logs, what can I do about it? If I want to disrupt their operation (by interfering with the totems or otherwise interfering with the org) there are not many legitimate in-game things I can do about it. I can't jam the detection zone, blow up the totem, feed it false information, etc. Also I don't think being able to have structures sat at marketplaces should be a thing you can for free. Otherwise eventually there will be 20+ totems sat there outside every market entrance all collecting the same thing. There should be some sort of parking fee involved which escallates over time with the punishment being that the construct gets impounded and removed from the pad. Not sure if the totem owner is reading this -- it would be cool to publish some daily aggregates of people visiting markets over time so we could see what the in-game activity levels are like ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunty Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 1/18/2021 at 7:29 PM, Warlander said: Not unless NQ decides to not allow people to use scripts on other players. Maybe if NQ gave the option to disable scripts running from constructs you don't own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deintus Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Hazaatan said: It is literally, in most parts of the world and defiantly in the USA, ILLEGAL. Companies get sued and have to pay large fines for doing what this player is doing in the game. Just chiming in. No this is not illegal. Ask Apple, Tesla, your local electric company... List is large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelk Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 51 minutes ago, Deintus said: Just chiming in. No this is not illegal. Ask Apple, Tesla, your local electric company... List is large Lol, people have some really weird ideas about privacy and law. This very forum uses Google Analytics...it's literally the first lines of the source code. You're being tracked as you read this very message. Collecting anonymous data without your consent isn't illegal in the US. Collecting data and selling it to third parties isn't illegal, either! You must provide an opt-out form per California's new law (CCPA)...that doesn't make it illegal to sell your information without consent, it just mandates a method to opt-out of such transactions and requires you to burry some text in your TOUs. Spamming people isn't even illegal, there's plenty of wiggle room in CANSPAM. Hate to break it to you, but the law in the US really doesn't care about your online privacy. I don't know what you think people will do with this data that makes it so invasive... Deintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Hazaatan said: Ok hero. The guy with 3 alt accounts is running a totem to gather your information without your permission, to then sell it to corporations. Does that sound familiar?? It is literally, in most parts of the world and defiantly in the USA, ILLEGAL. You think that what an in game item does with relation to a fictional in game character with no relevance to your real world identity or any personal data has any merit regarding Real world privacy regulations? Please.. but thanks for playing anyway. RL laws and rules do not apply in a game in case you were asking.. If they were, we'd see millions of people being put in jail for murder Besides all that, again, what evidence do you actually have this is happening and that if it is happening it is being used for malicious purposes. If i choose to collect information on your in game character I do not need permission to do so and if I choose to create a business out of selling that data in game there is nothing that prevents me from doing so. Again, RL laws and regulations do not apply here unless I am able to use the information collected in game to link to your RL persona. That is not possible. At best the item collects character ID (not player ID), time you entered the range of the built in detector and possible the time you left it, that is all. Outside of the game this information is completely and utterly useless and means exactly .. nothing. 10 minutes ago, michaelk said: Lol, people have some really weird ideas about privacy and law. This very forum uses Google Analytics...it's literally the first lines of the source code. You're being tracked as you read this very message Exactly, the website you are typing this on collects more and actual private data from you. And yes, you did consent to this when you started using the forums so if this is such an issue for you, why are you even here? (not you michalk.. obviously) Deintus and GraXXoR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraXXoR Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Hazaatan said: just STFU. really, just stop. Really, that’s where you’re going with this? Someone clearly didn’t get sex last night. not worth any further interaction with this joker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraXXoR Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Haunty said: Maybe if NQ gave the option to disable scripts running from constructs you don't own. So that you could just sneak up on security measures without triggering them. Awesome. Deintus, Lethys and [BOO] Sylva 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deintus Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 It's all in every agreement you make all the papers you sign. All EULA has it as well as loan agreements, phone app installs, literally everything. Next time you get a chance read through the license you agree to that is 20 pages long and nobody ever reads it's there. At best you can opt out of some of it with a written statement towards the company in question but not always. Depends on state you live in when it comes to the United States of A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Haunty said: Maybe if NQ gave the option to disable scripts running from constructs you don't own. Problem I see is t hat NQ may actually restrict the in game functionality for an unfounded fear that this may cause problems or even to make still more complaining players go away (even when they choose the wrong ones to accommodate). It would not be beyond their ability to knee-jerk respond to this in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraXXoR Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 15 minutes ago, blazemonger said: Problem I see is t hat NQ may actually restrict the in game functionality for an unfounded fear that this may cause problems or even to make still more complaining players go away (even when they choose the wrong ones to accommodate). It would not be beyond their ability to knee-jerk respond to this in such a way. I’m out of like reacts for the day, sorry.... but yes, this is their SOP to date. Flatten any potential bugs with a 60 pound jack hammer, causing ten times more fallout than the ahem...“emergent use case” itself. docking, anyone? blazemonger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Deintus said: Just chiming in. No this is not illegal. Ask Apple, Tesla, your local electric company... List is large You are suggesting that big tech companies have never been sued for privacy issues? Are you being serious? I want to look up cases but I don't think it will help you. But off the top of my head, Goole for street view some years ago. Facebook with 5 billion a few years ago.. many more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 23 minutes ago, Deintus said: It's all in every agreement you make all the papers you sign. All EULA has it as well as loan agreements, phone app installs, literally everything. Next time you get a chance read through the license you agree to that is 20 pages long and nobody ever reads it's there. At best you can opt out of some of it with a written statement towards the company in question but not always. Depends on state you live in when it comes to the United States of A. Show me in one of those EULA where I as a user can use a platform to take other users information without them knowing. Did you even read my post? It's like you picked out the part you could object to, while ignoring the rest of it. When did I say that NQ can't collect our data? It is clear as day that I am talking about another player collecting data form other players without their knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hazaatan said: You are suggesting that big tech companies have never been sued for privacy issues? Are you being serious? I want to look up cases but I don't think it will help you. But off the top of my head, Goole for street view some years ago. Facebook with 5 billion a few years ago.. many more... Irrelevant to the topic of this thread which has no relevance to RL regulations to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hazaatan said: Show me in one of those EULA where I as a user can use a platform to take other users information without them knowing. No one is taking any user information here.. user != ingame character While technically, the ID is linked to the player and not the character sure.. it does not in anyway reveal anything about the account the character is played on. not a single thing. It is just that.. a number .. and there is no way for an in game mechanic, even if it does what you think it does (I have yet to see one single piece of proof it does, not that it matters) to use that data outside of the game against the person owning the account the character is on. Only if you can show that I am wrong there would you have a point.. and you will not be able to show that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 54 minutes ago, michaelk said: Lol, people have some really weird ideas about privacy and law. This very forum uses Google Analytics...it's literally the first lines of the source code. You're being tracked as you read this very message. Collecting anonymous data without your consent isn't illegal in the US. Collecting data and selling it to third parties isn't illegal, either! You must provide an opt-out form per California's new law (CCPA)...that doesn't make it illegal to sell your information without consent, it just mandates a method to opt-out of such transactions and requires you to burry some text in your TOUs. Spamming people isn't even illegal, there's plenty of wiggle room in CANSPAM. Hate to break it to you, but the law in the US really doesn't care about your online privacy. I don't know what you think people will do with this data that makes it so invasive... Really. So if I start using this forum to gather real names form people and your posting habits, then sell that to a third party... it is not illegal, and your ok with it because its part of being on the forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazaatan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, blazemonger said: No one is taking any user information here.. user != ingame character That's not how this conversation began. I was defining dirty gameplay. Your going to far, all of you are going to far to win an argument you can't win. If it was real life and I was taking your information without you knowing and profiting, it would be illegal period. Doing it in a video game is dirty gameplay. Keep up or get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hazaatan said: Really. So if I start using this forum to gather real names form people and your posting habits, then sell that to a third party... it is not illegal, and your ok with it because its part of being on the forums? You can't gather real names from people here and so can't linke anyone's posting habits to sell that. even if you wanted to. ANd according to the EULA you agreed with when you joined, NQ could so that, yes. COULD.. not saying they do, intent to or have.. And again, RL vs fictional in game .. you're reaching here.. beyond what is reasonable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelk Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hazaatan said: Really. So if I start using this forum to gather real names form people and your posting habits, then sell that to a third party... it is not illegal, and your ok with it because its part of being on the forums? First, there's a different between something being legal and me agreeing with it ethically. People use bots to scrape forums all the time. There's no way to obtain my real name (or any PII) from the data available unless I actually post it, so feel free to bot away. Bots are already scraping every post in this very forum, programmatically extracting emails for spam lists. That's why you don't post information like that anywhere.... In the same way, there's no way to obtain PII (personally identifiable information) from someone's in-game avatar in DU...which is what people keep repeating time and time again. No one cares if your avatar is logged when visiting a market. That isn't an invasion of privacy because that information isn't private. Nor is it remotely useful to track you as a human being... There's a LOT to be concerned about with internet privacy, don't get me wrong...but this isn't really at the top of any list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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