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Warp:

-make it so you have to warp from 5-10 SU outside of the safe zone (excluding the 3 inner planets) and leave warp at a similar distance. this adds risk to warp unlike the current system where you can just reap rewards from.

-make it so your warp bring you out to a random position. this adds variation to warping and still gives players a chance of not dying instantly after leaving warp.

-add the ability to warp as a group. This will solve a problem if you have all of the same size core or don't want to bring a bigger ship to be able to warp multiple ships out.

Core sizes:

-revert the radar changes to how they behaved before .23. this is a controversial point but one I believe is necessary as it will add variation to what cores people use for PVP.

-give a ship with 10 gunners on it a place in a fight along with a ship that has 1.

Reasons to fight:

-xs cores should be used for fun with your friends, s cores should be a cheap entry level, m's should be the main stream core size and L's should be what you pull out for a big fight that you need to win.

The game needs central point to fight over that aren't near safe zones. This could be:

-Asteroids (supplies the game with ore)

-stations (could have resources on the station or maybe a double talent point buff for a week for the org that controls it)

-more rewards other than a fun experience to take away from combat.

Armour:

-nerf voxels. voxel armour is insanely good for tanking damage and not too expensive.

-remove build mode when in PVP (could easily be triggered along with the warp drive cooldown at the begging of firing). This causes players to keep regenerating their armour throughout a fight further more making it harder to kill an already hard to kill enemy.

-give a reason to not pile on more and more and even more armour onto your PVP ships. add reason to have the fastest ship on the field and reason to be the tankiest or reason to be a hybrid variant.

-fix element obstruction, I shouldn't be able to sink an element in voxels to limit the damage it takes.

weapons:

-close the gap between different weapon sizes a little. smalls may hit an L core 100% of the time but their damage is so negligible your basically tickling the other ship.

-the new weapon types are a good step in the right direction but I want to feel as though I'm using a different weapon not a buffed/nerfed variant of one that already exists.

 

 Overall this is just a list of changes i would like to see and believe will be best for the game.

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Can we stop wit the "WARP is unfair" already. Besides it implying you want acces to easy kills, while NQ works on proper counters and planet side combat, the safezones around planets stay in place and warp should have the endpoint in the safezone. Moving warp endpoints outside the safezones will not "fix PVP", it will just hand kills to those not willing to put in effort and/or find actual fights.

 

The Warp exit point is not fixed, it depends on the incoming vector thus by slow boating to a ping before making the jump you land on a different endpoint. It's really not hard to make pings a reasonable distance and in a random spot from the departure point.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Can we stop wit the "WARP is unfair" already. Besides it implying you want acces to easy kills, while NQ works on proper counters and planet side combat, the safezones around planets stay in place and warp should have the endpoint in the safezone. Moving warp endpoints outside the safezones will not "fix PVP", it will just hand kills to those not willing to put in effort and/or find actual fights.

that's why I want a 5-10 SU gap making it near impossible for  a large org to blockade an entire planet but still pickup several kills if they have enough numbers.

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ATM warp is a cheap mechanic to completely avoid PVP with 0 ways to counter it.

 

It was already announced that warp bubbles will be in the game and it will be possible to get ship out of warp with it to intercept.

 

For now, as a temporary solution we should make warp exits be close but not inside the safe zones.

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There's nothing wrong with warp avoiding PVP. Combat doesn't work right yet and the only valid reason to do it is for willing participants to test it.

 

When I can add reasonable defenses, e.g., shields, so I have some chance of surviving an attack without taking a huge loss, then it would be fair for me to have to take a risk commensurate with the reward if I succeed. (Currently, the reward for mining outlying planets is nowhere near enough to justify any risk of combat. It's also not enough to hire escorts if you're going to sing that tired refrain.)

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19 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Can we stop wit the "WARP is unfair" already. Besides it implying you want acces to easy kills, while NQ works on proper counters and planet side combat, the safezones around planets stay in place and warp should have the endpoint in the safezone. Moving warp endpoints outside the safezones will not "fix PVP", it will just hand kills to those not willing to put in effort and/or find actual fights.

 

The Warp exit point is not fixed, it depends on the incoming vector thus by slow boating to a ping before making the jump you land on a different endpoint. It's really not hard to make pings a reasonable distance and in a random spot from the departure point.

 

 

Yes thank you, Warp is not unfair Warp is just simply warp and that is all it is.

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9 minutes ago, Corphius said:

Yes thank you, Warp is not unfair Warp is just simply warp and that is all it is.

No, warp is a ridiculous mechanic as it currently stands. It is the reason that this is 99.99% a game for carebears, with no risk, reward, or purpose. 
 

May as well be playing no mans sky.

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53 minutes ago, Shredder said:

No, warp is a ridiculous mechanic as it currently stands. It is the reason that this is 99.99% a game for carebears, with no risk, reward, or purpose. 
 

May as well be playing no mans sky.

Almost as ridiculous as no shields or other defensive devices and combat mechanics that amount to shoot first or die. The only thing (aside from fast travel) that warp does atm is allow unarmed undefendable ships to opt out of combat.

 

If shooting unarmed ships is important to you, you're a griefer, not a PVPer.

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The truth is that if they remove/nerf warp those players that now use warp to avoid PvP will simply stop traveling.

If going to the outer planets become too expensive or too dangerous there's literally no reason to do that, period.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shredder said:

No, warp is a ridiculous mechanic as it currently stands. It is the reason that this is 99.99% a game for carebears, with no risk, reward, or purpose. 
 

May as well be playing no mans sky.

You know you have nothing to say of substance when you resort to arbitrary judgement values like "carebear". 

 

If you care so much about PvP, how about playing a PvP game?! DU isn't a PvP game. It's a building game with PvP slapped on top as a crude afterthought, with core pillars of the PvP gameplay unknown or undecided by NQ...and with no known ETA on changes. 

 

Welcome to DU's Alpha. Be patient or just move on and play a game with actual PvP as a core feature. DU isn't that game.

 

Frankly I don't understand how they will ever create anything close to "civilization" if they attract that crowd of people that loves to throw around "carebear" like it's the ultimate pejorative. Bears are great. Just visit pride sometime.

 

Some people think combat is insanely boring (especially DU's version), others think coding in LUA all day is boring, others think mining and hauling is boring. If you can't get over the fact that different people like different things, why bother playing a multiplayer game at all...? 

 

Anyway....I'm over people whining because PvP doesn't yet work. Nothing really works yet. Everyone is in the same boat.

 

It isn't because "carebears" want to avoid danger -- it's because NQ hasn't come close to finishing their game. 

 

Get over it, be patient, or move on. 

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4 hours ago, nathanwiseman19@gmail.com said:

Warp:

-make it so you have to warp from 5-10 SU outside of the safe zone (excluding the 3 inner planets) and leave warp at a similar distance. this adds risk to warp unlike the current system where you can just reap rewards from.

-make it so your warp bring you out to a random position. this adds variation to warping and still gives players a chance of not dying instantly after leaving warp.

-add the ability to warp as a group. This will solve a problem if you have all of the same size core or don't want to bring a bigger ship to be able to warp multiple ships out.

Core sizes:

-revert the radar changes to how they behaved before .23. this is a controversial point but one I believe is necessary as it will add variation to what cores people use for PVP.

-give a ship with 10 gunners on it a place in a fight along with a ship that has 1.

Reasons to fight:

-xs cores should be used for fun with your friends, s cores should be a cheap entry level, m's should be the main stream core size and L's should be what you pull out for a big fight that you need to win.

The game needs central point to fight over that aren't near safe zones. This could be:

-Asteroids (supplies the game with ore)

-stations (could have resources on the station or maybe a double talent point buff for a week for the org that controls it)

-more rewards other than a fun experience to take away from combat.

Armour:

-nerf voxels. voxel armour is insanely good for tanking damage and not too expensive.

-remove build mode when in PVP (could easily be triggered along with the warp drive cooldown at the begging of firing). This causes players to keep regenerating their armour throughout a fight further more making it harder to kill an already hard to kill enemy.

-give a reason to not pile on more and more and even more armour onto your PVP ships. add reason to have the fastest ship on the field and reason to be the tankiest or reason to be a hybrid variant.

-fix element obstruction, I shouldn't be able to sink an element in voxels to limit the damage it takes.

weapons:

-close the gap between different weapon sizes a little. smalls may hit an L core 100% of the time but their damage is so negligible your basically tickling the other ship.

-the new weapon types are a good step in the right direction but I want to feel as though I'm using a different weapon not a buffed/nerfed variant of one that already exists.

 

 Overall this is just a list of changes i would like to see and believe will be best for the game.

PvP is broken because of mining which they cant fix without breaking the game more or adding more limits that makes it even more time consuming or grindy for a vast majority of people and makes it even more costly for people to play and thus less pvp. Taking warp from people without any kind of fast travel is also going to break more than it fixes if you can rail everything out of the sky and make it more difficult to progress for 90% of the people playing and thus destroying the game.

 

Its all about mining. And since the devs developed themselves into a corner you cant make this game viable without imposing hard limits on the top orgs. Since they dont want to do that its a dead game until they change the whole game to make pvp more of a cost effective option. Not destroying the whole mining meta to destroy the industry meta and ultimately the ability to pvp since there will be nobody left to fight because everyone is unable to progress or built orgs without losing everything they earn.

 

Mining is the root of all evil not haulers. If you had people to fight if there was a good flow to progression would be a different story but since they need a full game redesign to make it work pvp is pretty much stuck in perpetual limbo with only hunting defensless hauling crews is not pvp if nobody else wants to participate in it and all you have left is crying to kill fast travel so you can enguage in pvp at all is a bigger sign that this concept has failed.

 

Its not my fault you killed pvp for your playstyle. Its not your fault that you only have ganking through predatory pvp either. NQ has no idea on how to design a cohesive game design.

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1 hour ago, Fra119 said:

The truth is that if they remove/nerf warp those players that now use warp to avoid PvP will simply stop traveling.

If going to the outer planets become too expensive or too dangerous there's literally no reason to do that, period.

 

 

If people stop travelling, prices for the ores increase, and there is then risk reward for travelling.

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1 hour ago, Daphne Jones said:

Almost as ridiculous as no shields or other defensive devices and combat mechanics that amount to shoot first or die. The only thing (aside from fast travel) that warp does atm is allow unarmed undefendable ships to opt out of combat.

 

If shooting unarmed ships is important to you, you're a griefer, not a PVPer.

There’s lots of ways to defend yourself, voxel tanks, being faster, scouting, slow boating. People just can’t be bothered because the reward isn’t there.
 

If there’s more risk, prices for ores will increase, and people will have to build their ships accordingly to take advantage.

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1 minute ago, Shredder said:

There’s lots of ways to defend yourself, voxel tanks, being faster, scouting, slow boating. People just can’t be bothered because the reward isn’t there.
 

If there’s more risk, prices for ores will increase, and people will have to build their ships accordingly to take advantage.

I have yet to see the market factor in transportation cost. That makes me suspect that prices will not respond to increased risk.

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For me its obvious some people dont understand that nothing will happen until we get Warp Interdiction because Mission system is nearby and whatever you have to move you can move through a mission or dont buy warp cells and hire pvp escort. Dont pay 100% Warp cell price, pay 50-75% Warp Cell cost to pvp cargo and pew pew have fun there chasing haulers with escort behind :))))))))

Warp off wont change anything, not one single thing! Your camp boats will die in 1 shot when you will meet pvp escort. :)

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1 hour ago, Elitez said:

For me its obvious some people dont understand that nothing will happen until we get Warp Interdiction because Mission system is nearby and whatever you have to move you can move through a mission or dont buy warp cells and hire pvp escort. Dont pay 100% Warp cell price, pay 50-75% Warp Cell cost to pvp cargo and pew pew have fun there chasing haulers with escort behind :))))))))

Warp off wont change anything, not one single thing! Your camp boats will die in 1 shot when you will meet pvp escort. :)

Sounds solid, hire your gankers and pay them to gank you on top of the loss of your ship. That will solve everything indeed.

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Lets just do it all!

 

Forget about mining and forget about industry.

 

Remove warp as it is, remove safezones as they are and please also remove build mode and force deletion of cargo, also please remove weapon size lock and make it possible to add more gunners on a ship. and add territory wars at all but not on the sanctuary moon.

 

This will result in total destruction of the current player base that provides ores and components and will kill the joy of about 50% of the remaining players that might leave, or not. It will bring back more PvP but sheep will all be dead in 1 day or left.

Better to kill swift then a lingering death that takes forever.

 

Option 2: fix material control so the route from mining ore to building massive battleships is in fact lucrative enough to actually have something to fight with, And fight for. ( i would go for 2, more profit on your investment and a more stable future for employees and paychecks at the end of the month)

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Why not just treat warp like Tier 2 max speed so that its not as much as an instant escape as a head start at max of 120,000 kmph. Or warp 2 being 240,000kmph?

 

You could at least punch warp 2 and catch up to were its not an instant escape but that it still travels faster than engine travel with warp 1-5 just being faster than regular travel and build up to like light speed at like warp 10 or something.

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Warp skipping will come to an end. Until then markets will remain good for buying finished products cheaper than the ore prices to make them and more and more items will become cheaper and cheaper. 
 

When it does end people will learn how to make haulers that can sustain attacks and not get destroyed in 1-2 hits out of pure necessity. When NQ was looking for a way to jump start an economy with 0.23, I think they was looking in the wrong place.

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1 minute ago, Physics said:

Warp skipping will come to an end. Until then markets will remain good for buying finished products cheaper than the ore prices to make them and more and more items will become cheaper and cheaper. 
 

When it does end people will learn how to make haulers that can sustain attacks and not get destroyed in 1-2 hits out of pure necessity. When NQ was looking for a way to jump start an economy with 0.23, I think they was looking in the wrong place.

Thats the thing. That small% of dedicated pvpers wants to kill those that are learning how to do things right...and its not ok! The game as we want will be the one we will have release. Meanwhile we are here to adapt to changes and learn to have fun at a slower pace.

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37 minutes ago, Elitez said:

Thats the thing. That small% of dedicated pvpers wants to kill those that are learning how to do things right...and its not ok! The game as we want will be the one we will have release. Meanwhile we are here to adapt to changes and learn to have fun at a slower pace.

Its not just expensive its not really possible atm to get enough lift to have a 15 container hauler and the space enough to place parts the way the system wants. With the parts creep to weight ratio there just isnt enough space/links to do both until items progress or the size/grades line up to just haul gold which is the benchmark or gold standard if you will for hauling. The problem is getting enough weight up to antigrav levels to get to space. The stats on items are so low even with takents that it would take 200+ L Stabilizers which is pretty rediculous especially with the 2:1 ratio of wings to engine to provide enough thrust. 15 containers is nothing in the grand scheme of things. There is no room for weapons or defenses in parts placement. There isnt enough lift or thrust to do both. The stats of items is what is making haulers cost so much and such a big hit if you lose one that makes pvp out of reach for defense. If there were more stats it lowers the cost barrier to people losing ships or to be able to add weapons.

 

Im all for PvP I just cant afford to with being pulled into multiple directions at once to progress, build a fleet, base, honeycombs, machines, schematics, reaplacement parts before they nerfed destructive elements, and pet projects its just not enough to go around enough to be able to afford throwing away ships right now. I want to fight im just not at that point yet of self sufficiency I want to be at yet. Im sure many are in the same boat.

 

But like I keep saying until they apply hard limits on megaorgs or do a full redesign pvp in this game wont be a thing. They have developed themselves into a corner and their flawed design cant be fixed at this point without fully going back to the drawing board with world generation on up for this project to ever produce meaningful pvp to occur with any frequency. Warp is the least of our worries right now.

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