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Warp removing any risk from pvp needs to end.


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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:

Apparently we do, it is called build mode where you can delete your structure

I wouldn't call that self destruct but deconstruction because the construct can't do it itself. However, you are right that it has the same effect (if you survive long enough).

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Tit for tat I'd say mate. PvP is PvP. That's the whole name of the game. I lost count on how many times I had awesome gear in dayZ and in a moment get my ass handed to me by someone on the treeline snipe me. Lol that's the the fun part. Yes I admit it would totally piss me off but in an hour I would be geared up again and totally forgot about the previous loadout.  Also I did the same and the rewards were great.

Tit for tat!

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59 minutes ago, avghunter said:

Tit for tat I'd say mate. PvP is PvP. That's the whole name of the game. I lost count on how many times I had awesome gear in dayZ and in a moment get my ass handed to me by someone on the treeline snipe me. Lol that's the the fun part. Yes I admit it would totally piss me off but in an hour I would be geared up again and totally forgot about the previous loadout.  Also I did the same and the rewards were great.

Tit for tat!

There are several diferences between dayz and DU:

 

Dayz is 100% a griefing game. No one will play it thinking its minecraft or fair. Neither it has 5 other pilars beside pvp. 

 

You can get to full gear in less then 10 hours of gameplay and acceptable gear in 2 hours. 

 

Dayz has several servers and with a max capacity below 100 players. Dayz players can chose if they want to encounter other players by changing to another server. It is realistically impossible for a org/clan to hunt one single man with a group of 30 guys

 

Dayz players can procede with care and avoid fights with larger groups by properly scouting the area. 

 

Dayz players can easly run away from an engagement with the enemy. 

 

It is fairly easy to start a new life in dayz just by spawning on a new location or even change server. 

 

Unmoded dayz does not inform you the identity of your enemy, making anonymous attacks possible. 

 

A fresh spawn can kill a fully geared player. 

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Well I think the only real solution to space pirates is:

  • You attack non Org ships and you can be pvped anywhere at any time. You are bound to the PvP restrictions Everyone else isnt
  • If you kill rival org members then you are flagged anywhere anytime for members of that org for pvp. You are bound to PvP restrictions
  • If you kill anyone under 1-5mil exp you have to pay a fine before you can use the market again.
  • You kill a normal player you need to pay for their damages before you can buy/sell again.
  • If you steal anything from a ship you cant sell it on the market unless you pay your debt to society for the perks.
  • You can try to sell stolen goods on the market but if you try they are instantly siezed and given back to my account
  • If you cant buy/sell then you have to trade person to person or sell out of a vending machine type ship or your base. Seeing as the people you killed can destroy your ship(s) thats pretty risky.
  • I want your ability to place Territory Units since you are banned from all systems until you pay off all that damage you caused and stole. You can place TUs and cores its just you get your perms and protections to pvp turned off for everyone but you and your org members who are now accomplices.
  • Even if you pay the debt to get the lights turned back on you should still be flagged for pvp for the duration of your parole.
  • Who ever attacks you after that you can then attack them and their property.

I think we have been going about this all wrong. PvP needs to be more punishing...for them.

 

Seeing as PvEers are forced to use warp cells to avoid pvp or to fast travel that costs me something to make that choice, then PvP should also have to be forced to pay for the consiquences of their actions, damages, and debt to society.

 

You have to come to us and anytime you want to drop a TU, buy/sell on the Market you will have to pay on the back end of your choices for the theft or damages caused before you can use those functions. You can still do whatever you want just know that since you are a criminal it opens everything you own up for destruction by everyone else not just the person or org they are part of. You are now a serverwide known criminal and must be hunted down and taught a lesson.

 

You can have your disruptor I want criminal justice. If I have to pay you should have to pay too. Its only fair.

 

Not to mention Territory wars could be handled this way. Its like a hatfields vs mcoys situation where you do something to me so I do something to you. You and someone else do something to me I grab a friend. Since it puts the aggressor's property up for grabs for stealing until they pay the damages to gain access to civ perks like the market or the TU that gives property protection. I didnt choose to be a criminal and steal things that was all you. You have the choice to attack others. Regardless you can also be pvped anywhere. Anyone who pvps you anywhere you can now attack. And it turns it into more of a GTA pirate experience of having to survive or to build a pirate org since you cant sell on the market so you will have to steal a lot of stuff. Eventually it will pull orgs into it since it will make them accomplices to your actions and they cant sell either. SO you basically have to choose to be good or bad.

 

Sounds about fair

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I think that for warp drive it should have the time it takes to spool and wind up to warp should be calculated with the weight of the ship. The cell calculation is but the windup should be as well to instantly punch it out of there. I also think that the disruptor should only be able to disrupt and active warp drive and require as many warp cells to stop the opponent as they are attempting to use. So if you have enough warp cells to counter what they are attempting to use.

 

If you want to disrupt me you should have to pony up cells too. If you bet wrong your burn the cells you tried to disrupt me with.

 

 

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Not going to read the whole thread but for some time I have been pushed for randomisation of warp entry points on the outer planets (outside Ailoth, Madis, Thades initially).  Make it so that when you warp you will arrive at a more random location, potentially OUTSIDE safe zones.  You could even have safe zone varying throughout the day.  This would bring the potential of pirate / pvp gameplay to the planets being used by players experienced enough to deal with it.

Creating this, also creates the need for security services.  You want to take your big miners / hauler to a far flung locations to reap the rewards, you might need to hire some security to help you get in and out.  Increases community engagement, allows for more varied career paths which include an element of pvp and adds some much need risk to what should be a later game activity.

The ability to completely avoid pvp, doing these sorts of activities, at this stage of the game is WRONG.

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1 hour ago, Moosegun said:

Creating this, also creates the need for security services.  

I'm dying to see all people who repeating this [nonsense] to first actualy HIRE such mythical "secrurity services" and survive their use with some economical success. Then it will bear some weight.

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3 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

I'm dying to see all people who repeating this [nonsense] to first actualy HIRE such mythical "secrurity services" and survive their use with some economical success. Then it will bear some weight.

Especially when 90% of people get ganked by the escort they hired. I cant wait to see those reactions.

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I was just thinking that if there are so many pirate groups out there, they will probably be fighting each other a lot. If one pirate group does not assert its dominance in an area, they have to share loot. If they share loot, they have a smaller profit margin and can't buy enough reserve ammo and fuel. While this has probably not settled into separate territories yet, it will, it is inevitable. Bigger corporations will also secure their major traveling lanes. So just use those same paths which they already protect. Use some diplomacy and contact that Government for a travel Visa. If they don't have a transponder system set up yet, they are behind the times. What, you thought you wouldn't have to pay a toll for a bigger group protecting a travel lane?

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I also still feel there needs to be a capture mechanic based on actions in game. If you are a pirate you run the risk of getting caught and detained. Nothing to do with "it's FFA PVP".. It has to do with you  are considered a menace to society and as such are removed from the equation. In a situation where your life means nothing as you just respawn if you die, the only real consequence of being what you are and getting caught is to be captured and held.

 

And no,  "you can't deny me my game time that I pay for" does not apply here either as when you play a nuisance, you better not get caught.. risk and reward, actions and consequences..

The sentiment that you can't be touched outside of being killed while being a general pest in game (not saying anything about the player here, just the character you play) is misplaced. A character captured can choose to sit out their time or respawn but a timer would apply in that case. Obviously we're not talking about extensive detainment, in game time I'd say at most 3-4 hours with a auto-respawn following that keeping your inventory. If you choose to respawn early you loose inventory and you get a 30 minute timer.

 

Obviously, your friends can try and break you out as well.. Maybe you can bribe a guard..

 

Not easy to implement well, but IMO it should be looked into. I can see that this would not happen anytime this year or even next year, but put it on the roadmap as coming post release so no one can go cry "no one ever told us this could happen".

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

I also still feel there needs to be a capture mechanic based on actions in game. If you are a pirate you run the risk of getting caught and detained. Nothing to do with "it's FFA PVP".. It has to do with you  are considered a menace to society and as such are removed from the equation. In a situation where your life means nothing as you just respawn if you die, the only real consequence of being what you are and getting caught is to be captured and held.

 

And no,  "you can't deny me my game time that I pay for" does not apply here either as when you play a nuisance, you better not get caught.. risk and reward, actions and consequences..

The sentiment that you can't be touched outside of being killed while being a general pest in game (not saying anything about the player here, just the character you play) is misplaced. A character captured can choose to sit out their time or respawn but a timer would apply in that case. Obviously we're not talking about extensive detainment, in game time I'd say at most 3-4 hours with a auto-respawn following that keeping your inventory. If you choose to respawn early you loose inventory and you get a 30 minute timer.

 

Obviously, your friends can try and break you out as well.. Maybe you can bribe a guard..

 

Not easy to implement well, but IMO it should be looked into. I can see that this would not happen anytime this year or even next year, but put it on the roadmap as coming post release so no one can go cry "no one ever told us this could happen".

I agree with that with 1 caviot which should be that it should affect all the people you are connected to from your friends list to your org. If you have a bunch of pirates in your org then your org should be affected by the actions of its members. So if you kill and steal it reflects on your guild, perhaps their tax rates at the market, market acces, and property pvp flagged. If your org cant sell and their property is being flagged for PvP im sure youll get all the pvp you can handle. Or that those timers reset every time someone kills someone else until a truce is made. So if your org likes selling things they either tell you to stop or kick you to clear their name and break associations with known criminals in order to sell again.

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55 minutes ago, Warlander said:

I agree with that with 1 caviot which should be that it should affect all the people you are connected to from your friends list to your org.

I can see that be true for your org, yes. a standings system of sorts was suggested a few times and that could be linked to RDMS. So in order to gain certain rights, you (or your org) need to have a standing of X for the access/right to be available to you. that should really not be very difficult to implement.

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Detention plus kin liability won't really do anything. Just have that one org for piracy and have alts or your second/third char slot for trade. Plus pirates won't have anything on them anyway when Hunting so respawning instantly is always an option

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7 hours ago, blazemonger said:

I can see that be true for your org, yes. a standings system of sorts was suggested a few times and that could be linked to RDMS. So in order to gain certain rights, you (or your org) need to have a standing of X for the access/right to be available to you. that should really not be very difficult to implement.

I think in order to make it work ships need some kind of blue book value based on what all is on the ship as its current market value. Once a ships value is calculated under some kind of apraisal type system you can actually apply that to the fines of siezing a ship and compensating the victim.

 

That cost should first be passed on to the org in order to sell on the market. If you are siezing ships worth 100mil h then your guild will have to pnny that up in order to sell. If the members of their Org keep seizing ships that fine accumulates until paid before they can gain access. I also think that for pirate orgs there should be an alternate black market system to sell. Its a much smaller market for sure but they should still be able to sell to some capacity for pure pirate orgs.

 

But unless you have control over your Org members regardless of size and tell them not to go pirate since it not only forced you or someone in your org to pay your fines before they can sell there should be a timer for every ship you sieze that opens up the larger orgs property as another layer. If you risk your org's property there is incentive to remain in good standing or that even if you boot the player you are still stuck paying their fine before you gain access and need to vet people before you allow them in.

 

If the agressor is a large org against a large org retaliation or siezing property from the agressor makes you an agressor and should make you a temporary pirate org if you steal your property back since the fines should go to the victims as compensation for doing criminal acts and settles up the debt. Which allows the player to rebuild a ship in the case of a newbie the fines are.nt that steep but you dont want to end the new players game just trying to get into space the first time if they lose everything.

 

The idea is to create escalting conflicts that allow PvP and Territory battles to occur based on that conflict or criminal actions. It also opens the door to anti-criminal orgs who just hunt down criminals or different roles like bounty hunters, police, or military orgs to stop the conflict long enough for the timers to run their course and restore order.

 

Once large orgs take whole planets it should be bound to a system of laws that anyone who owns a territory can vote on if they are in the org or not to control the actions/reactions/punishments for citizens living there too. So if you are a criminal it would make you kos there unless you are in good standing. Or they could decide all known criminals are kos and should not be allowed to live there. Citizens should also be able to vote to go to war, zone out properties, or to sue for peace. Amonst all sorts of rulesets. There should also be some kind of solar system voting for laws in the solar system as well.

 

It should force a pure pirate org or faction to emerge and generate conflict if they are legally allowed to steal or be killed anywhere since you can hunt them down anywhere. Since they can only use the black market they either live or die by their ability to run, hide their bases, and launch raids. Or they get destroyed into oblivion and lose everything. It should not be just caming outside of a safezone or near jump gates with impunity and then going into the safe zone with no consiquence or fines for their actions.

 

I dont think that imprisonment really does anything but restrict playtime. But I do think that the timers acrued from criminal activity should be bound to the player being logged on to reduce their timer so you dont just constantly steal and log off and the timer keeps running. It should only tick down when you are on. Which presents the org you are part of to either make you stay logged on to reduce the timer protected in a safe house somewhere if they like you or disassociate from you to allow the timer to tick down but still be responsible for your actions and still have to pay the fine on top of it.

 

7 hours ago, Lethys said:

Detention plus kin liability won't really do anything. Just have that one org for piracy and have alts or your second/third char slot for trade. Plus pirates won't have anything on them anyway when Hunting so respawning instantly is always an option

If you want to pay for 4 subs NQ still wins if you want to go that far. There is nothing saying a pirate faction wont need industry or production since they likely cant steal enough to keep things repaired.

 

If you are trying to skirt the system and trade stolen goods to another player such as an alt who is a criminal then if you try to sell the stolen parts you get charged with piracy too as an accomplice and then those items are left at that market but siezed and given back to the owner who has to come pick it up. Or if you sell large quantities of goods to pirates then your organization should be charged with aiding and embedding known criminals. So unless you are super dedicated to being a pirate and want to pledge 4 accounts to making it work you just either have to leave a double life and not associate accounts or go all into it. You could always hand your ship or cargo over to your other char by having 1 account steal the ship from the other but you still need to attack yourself and have to repair it regardless. So it works in that regard too.

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7 hours ago, Lethys said:

 so respawning instantly is always an option

Which is why, when detained, a respawn should have a timer. in a detainment situation you can only respawn 30 minutes after you click the button. Losing Talent points (and thus random talents trained) could also be an option as an alternative.. As you get detained, you can respawn at any time but you wil lose talent points, the amount you lose counts down over say 2 hours and depends on your standing with the org/player that captured you.

 

 

You can either hang out and possible RP or respawn and take the hit of a timer or lose points.

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19 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Which is why, when detained, a respawn should have a timer. in a detainment situation you can only respawn 30 minutes after you click the button. Losing Talent points (and thus random talents trained) could also be an option as an alternative.. As you get detained, you can respawn at any time but you wil lose talent points, the amount you lose counts down over say 2 hours and depends on your standing with the org/player that captured you.

 

 

You can either hang out and possible RP or respawn and take the hit of a timer or lose points.

I cant remember what game it was but dungeon lords comes to mind where if you died you permanantly lost exp from your level and after a while your character became lame and could no longer fight later in the game and had to start over.

 

Talents or random selected talents or taking away the exp of qued talents would not work. Potentially the exp rate per min could be a better targer for a death penalty. You could just make it so that you can respawn as many times as needed its just you lose 10 exp for the next hour and every death compounds that loss by 5-10exp per min with each subsiquent death. I think this should also apply to forced rez too. You cant really restrict its use as there are many factors in play outside combat but if you turely need it you can take the exp hit. If you are exploiting the rez system while mining or using it as a teleporter then you get hit with losing 600 exp will add up over time.

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1 minute ago, Warlander said:

I cant remember what game it was but dungeon lords comes to mind where if you died you permanantly lost exp from your level and after a while your character became lame and could no longer fight later in the game and had to start over.

 

EVE used to have broad loss of skill levels but currently only when you die while flying a Strategic Cruiser will you lose one random level from one of the support skills for the ship. That penalty is not in any way stopping anyone from using these ships as it's just part of the deal when you fly them.

 

Personally I think skill/talent loss when respawning in general would be fine, it's a great deterrent to abuse of the mechanic and when you get caught. The capture action/mechanic would then put a multiplier on that loss which is dependent on your standing with the opponent. This would also provide what I actually think is a very fair and balanced consequence of a chosen playstyle.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warlander said:

you want to pay for 4 subs NQ still wins if you want to go that far. There is nothing saying a pirate faction wont need industry or production since they likely cant steal enough to keep things repaired.

 

If you are trying to skirt the system and trade stolen goods to another player such as an alt who is a criminal then if you try to sell the stolen parts you get charged with piracy too as an accomplice and then those items are left at that market but siezed and given back to the owner who has to come pick it up. Or if you sell large quantities of goods to pirates then your organization should be charged with aiding and embedding known criminals. So unless you are super dedicated to being a pirate and want to pledge 4 accounts to making it work you just either have to leave a double life and not associate accounts or go all into it. You could always hand your ship or cargo over to your other char by having 1 account steal the ship from the other but you still need to attack yourself and have to repair it regardless. So it works in that regard too.

At least someone pays for that sub yes, not neccessarily me.

 

Again, selling TO pirates won't really happen as you can easily circumvent that, rendering it a useless mechanic 

1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Which is why, when detained, a respawn should have a timer. in a detainment situation you can only respawn 30 minutes after you click the button. Losing Talent points (and thus random talents trained) could also be an option as an alternative.. As you get detained, you can respawn at any time but you wil lose talent points, the amount you lose counts down over say 2 hours and depends on your standing with the org/player that captured you.

Well sure, everything fine by me. As long as I get to kill ppl and sell their stuff for my gains, idc. 

When NQ skews the system to heavily punish pirates for being pirates then I'll just shoot whoever and burn all they got for funzies. Since I don't play DU anyway because IT'sway top boring, I don't really care what they do. I'm just there to annoy ppl

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Discord today:

"Hello Noveans! It has come to our attention that Warp Beacons are currently not functioning as intended. We are investigating and will return with updated information when we have it. :slight_smile: Thank you for your patience while we get to the bottom of this. "

Sounds like your getting your wish, lets see how fast this goes.

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On 1/15/2021 at 10:23 PM, Context said:

I was just thinking that if there are so many pirate groups out there, they will probably be fighting each other a lot. If one pirate group does not assert its dominance in an area, they have to share loot. If they share loot, they have a smaller profit margin and can't buy enough reserve ammo and fuel. While this has probably not settled into separate territories yet, it will, it is inevitable. Bigger corporations will also secure their major traveling lanes. So just use those same paths which they already protect. Use some diplomacy and contact that Government for a travel Visa. If they don't have a transponder system set up yet, they are behind the times. What, you thought you wouldn't have to pay a toll for a bigger group protecting a travel lane?

If I could pay for some kind of travel pass from orgs or pirate groups directly to make them physically unable to attack me I would gladly do so if it meant I didnt have to use warp cells or if I ran into a group I didnt pay for safe harbour I could still punch warp. I dont trust those same people to want to protect me with escorts or anything of that sort without at least a 75-97% chance im either going to get ganked in route or that there will be a wolf pack waiting on the other end. With all the shiesty things people do in this game im never going to use that type of system unless I can directly pay them off as a toll and they cant kill me since im being protected and cant do damage to me even if they wanted to.

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