Is this supposed to be fun - First Ship to build

[lobolito]

Im pretty new to the Game. So maybe Im missing an important part or someting.

I want to go into building a Ship, as i need an option to sell the stuff i mined.

 

And i have pretty much no clue what to do.

All i see is that i cant afford the Blueprints which i need to build the Parts.

So i figured i try to buy them.

But how can i know what i need?

I have no clue how many wings/brakes/engines (and what kind) /and what else i need.

Im 35 km away from the nearest Market. It takes a huge amount of time to visit the next one.

 

Im I supposed to do multiple trips before i have everything i need or is there a simpler solution i just dont see?

 

[klobber]

simple is bad. 

may be you ask someone to be friendly and bring you some starter stuff,

but otherwise, go in the mines and bring ore to the market, then you can buy the stuff needed.

 

[Fra119]

1 hour ago, lobolito said:

Im pretty new to the Game. So maybe Im missing an important part or someting.

I want to go into building a Ship, as i need an option to sell the stuff i mined.

 

And i have pretty much no clue what to do.

All i see is that i cant afford the Blueprints which i need to build the Parts.

So i figured i try to buy them.

But how can i know what i need?

I have no clue how many wings/brakes/engines (and what kind) /and what else i need.

Im 35 km away from the nearest Market. It takes a huge amount of time to visit the next one.

 

Im I supposed to do multiple trips before i have everything i need or is there a simpler solution i just dont see?

 

There is no easier solution atm.

If you are on Sanctuary you can no longer keep your home there becouse the ores in your tile are not even remotely enough to set up a basic factory, your best option is to build a simple ship using your nanopack and move to alioth.

I believe you can also use shuttles to travel between sanc and alioth, you can find them in districts, you can only carry what fits in you inventory tho.

[Burble]

1 hour ago, lobolito said:

Im pretty new to the Game. So maybe Im missing an important part or someting.

I want to go into building a Ship, as i need an option to sell the stuff i mined.

 

And i have pretty much no clue what to do.

All i see is that i cant afford the Blueprints which i need to build the Parts.

So i figured i try to buy them.

But how can i know what i need?

I have no clue how many wings/brakes/engines (and what kind) /and what else i need.

Im 35 km away from the nearest Market. It takes a huge amount of time to visit the next one.

 

Im I supposed to do multiple trips before i have everything i need or is there a simpler solution i just dont see?

 

 

Man, I know how you feel. My first three days in game, on Sanctuary, I made a similar post. Then I pushed through, got myself to Alioth and now am building a giant race track that covers a whole lake while flying around in a ship that carries 1000 tonnes and can get me to any planet in the system.  Don't give up. This part is almost like the test in Fight Club to get into the house.

[GraXXoR]

2 hours ago, lobolito said:

Im pretty new to the Game. So maybe Im missing an important part or someting.

I want to go into building a Ship, as i need an option to sell the stuff i mined.

 

And i have pretty much no clue what to do.

All i see is that i cant afford the Blueprints which i need to build the Parts.

So i figured i try to buy them.

But how can i know what i need?

I have no clue how many wings/brakes/engines (and what kind) /and what else i need.

Im 35 km away from the nearest Market. It takes a huge amount of time to visit the next one.

 

Im I supposed to do multiple trips before i have everything i need or is there a simpler solution i just dont see?

 

Start small and build up. Take your time to learn. Now crashing doesn’t destroy components again, things are peachy. 
 

start using small and extra small components you can make in your pack or buy locally. Then wander around a market place to see how others are doing it. 
 Pressing H while looking at something will tell you what the element or voxel is. 
 

This game’s physics model is super simplistic so you can even get a cube to fly if you strap motors on it t. And there is no torque so you can just slap your engines anywhere willie nillie.

 

also do the ship building tutorial. 

[Bobbie]

.

[lobolito]

Thanks for the replys.

 

Im not sure if i will start the game again.

To be honest, i prob will, because of the 3 month paid.

 

The Tutorial would help a lot. But they dont work "invalid transporter location". Only the first 3 Tutorials are working.

Thanks for the youtube Link. I may give it a try.

Im rly not sure if i want to play a game which makes it so hard.

If there would be not blueprints (lets say for Tier1 and all in and under Assembly Line M) i wohld have no problem.

I love to figure stuff out by myself.

But with the vast way to the market it feels like i need to waste so much time....

Im 1 Wing short? Ok, lets waste 15 min again.

Oh, 1 Brake was not enough? K, theres another 15 min Traveltime to the Market....

 

[Bobbie]

.

[Fra119]

You don't need blueprints on your nanopack, you can build most of the basic elements there and slowly introduce industry machines.

 

[Warlander]

This is why I keep saying they need to just randomly assign new players to tiles somewhere close to a market or small market with a territroy unit already placed and some kind of optimized ship that can fly properly, a xs ontimized structure that is at the least set up for some small storage but also an industry capable of just making basic rations like scrap/gas for T1 just so new players can hit the ground running and just add on from there but also tinker with stuff and see how it is supposed to be conneccted and run and the same with the ship.

 

This current tutorial is terrible even if it is shortened and it is over complicated and stupid and could just as easily be done on a tile rather than the academy.

 

Just know you cant do everything as stupid as it sounds and the more your want to move your talents outside of 1 main focus the more you shoot yourself in the foot  in the long run since we only get so much exp until you can start to multi class a bit more. Honestly I dont know why all talents arent only for put downs so that you can enjoy all the various aspects of the game all at the same time vs the compartimentalized suicide approach they chose.

 

Just know it never really gets easier to test and optimize a ship before the destructive elements is taken into account along with being a new player. I would suggest that when your universal basic income allows that you should follow this ratio:

 

• 1 L container
• 2-4 wings / stabilizers
• 4-6 hover pads
• 2 engines
• 2-4 atmosperic air brakes

Thats the basic ratio I follow per L container depending on how well it performs for what I need it to do. But you certainly want to get your hand on a sepperate container full of like iron to really test your ship with unless you can get your hands on something heavier. That way you will know that under most circumstances it will will hold up to flight so you dont crash. I would suggest that if you do any amount of flying get at least Tier 3 skills in all the skills that arent Put Downs and like T4 in the put downs since if you play with others they can use the bonus too.

 

Beyond that dont get too hasty to go to space without some kind of plan since you will need a warp drive and the cells to escape if you get into trouble or you can lose your ship and start over if you dont have a backup ship to replace it. You can avoid a lot of headaches by warping, and even though it is expense at your stage of the game you need it.

 

Also dont worry too much about the industry unless that is your focus. You will need a lot of ore to keep it running and if its just you then you are faced with the choice of mining skills or industry and it takes a long time to progress through the industry / crafting trees moreso then everything else in the game combined which oyu cant use without spending potentially millions per blueprint.

[Deintus]

22 minutes ago, Warlander said:

This is why I keep saying they need to just randomly assign new players to tiles somewhere close to a market or small market with a territroy unit already placed and some kind of optimized ship that can fly properly, a xs ontimized structure that is at the least set up for some small storage but also an industry capable of just making basic rations like scrap/gas for T1 just so new players can hit the ground running and just add on from there but also tinker with stuff and see how it is supposed to be conneccted and run and the same with the ship.

I have always wondered why the markets on Sanctuary were grouped like they were. It really makes the most sense to create markets equidistant around the planet for many reasons.

 

One thing to try to do that I learned the hard way on ship building. After you put down your container, try to fill it with the heaviest stuff you have on hand, then continue building using the built in calculators for lift, thrust, etc. That is the easiest and quickest way to be sure you have enough brakes, wings, engines to ferry what you want back and forth.

[Warlander]

4 minutes ago, Deintus said:

I have always wondered why the markets on Sanctuary were grouped like they were. It really makes the most sense to create markets equidistant around the planet for many reasons.

 

One thing to try to do that I learned the hard way on ship building. After you put down your container, try to fill it with the heaviest stuff you have on hand, then continue building using the built in calculators for lift, thrust, etc. That is the easiest and quickest way to be sure you have enough brakes, wings, engines to ferry what you want back and forth.

Also I would consider also adding a XS container while testing / optimizing with iron or the heaviest mats you have as well since I dont know how many time we had a couple people with their pockets filled and the ship was not rated for the people / nanopacks and went down. So there is that to think about too.

 

For as much as I try to spec things I always try to get away with the least amount as I can since those repair bills go way up along with your ambitions as well as the magins of error.

 

But also I would suggest that when you do go off world to also account for how much stuff weighs in another moon / planet's gravity vs wherever you are heading back to's gravity. The gravity bodyslam when your brakes do nothing is not fun especially with larger ships.

[Shulace]

On 12/25/2020 at 6:21 AM, GraXXoR said:

Start small and build up. Take your time to learn. Now crashing doesn’t destroy components again, things are peachy. 
 

start using small and extra small components you can make in your pack or buy locally. Then wander around a market place to see how others are doing it. 
 Pressing H while looking at something will tell you what the element or voxel is. 
 

This game’s physics model is super simplistic so you can even get a cube to fly if you strap motors on it t. And there is no torque so you can just slap your engines anywhere willie nillie.

 

also do the ship building tutorial. 

I thought things can still be destroyed. Since when did they revert the element destruction? I do not see any info about that in any of the patch notes released since 0.23. I just hopped on to test on a speeder and repaired something, destruction count went down as well.

[lobolito]

Thanks again for the Tips. I have not startet the Game in two Days.

I have to see if the motivation comes back.

 

To say it clear:

I like to start small and build up. But it does not feel like i can grow.

XS Containers are so small that they simply do not make sense.

I would need to make 50-80 Trips to the Market to sell enough.

Thats about 20 hours non stop Flying.

Thats is no fun. At least for me.

 

I would rly love to build a (small) ship with M or S Containers, so i could build up.

If i could craft the stuff i need, i would have a goal which keeps me going.

But i wont build a ship with XS Containers, waste 20 hours Fly-Time to sell Stuff (which i need another 20-40 hours to harvest) only to buy the thinks i MAYBE need to build a Ship with S Containers.

And then all again to build a ship with M Containers.

 

Im ok with this, if NQ wants new Players to play like this.

But then its simply not my kind of game.

Whats pretty sad for me: As i bought the gametime (my knowledge base on the Game before the Blueprints) I thought, this game was pretty much what i wanted for years.

[Deintus]

20 minutes ago, lobolito said:

Im ok with this, if NQ wants new Players to play like this.

But then its simply not my kind of game.

Whats pretty sad for me: As i bought the gametime (my knowledge base on the Game before the Blueprints) I thought, this game was pretty much what i wanted for years.

Note that these are my own personal observations and opinions:

It seems the game is in a state of flux, so to speak. Even though the game is in Beta, it needs a lot more work, so what you see now isn't planned as the final product. 

 

I suggest reading a bit through the forums, and give it a shot. Afterall you spent the money, right? I myself have finally decided to back off the game for a bit but that doesn't mean you would have to. If I might ask, what part of the game attracted you the most?

 

[Fra119]

3 hours ago, lobolito said:

Thanks again for the Tips. I have not startet the Game in two Days.

I have to see if the motivation comes back.

 

To say it clear:

I like to start small and build up. But it does not feel like i can grow.

XS Containers are so small that they simply do not make sense.

I would need to make 50-80 Trips to the Market to sell enough.

Thats about 20 hours non stop Flying.

Thats is no fun. At least for me.

 

I would rly love to build a (small) ship with M or S Containers, so i could build up.

If i could craft the stuff i need, i would have a goal which keeps me going.

But i wont build a ship with XS Containers, waste 20 hours Fly-Time to sell Stuff (which i need another 20-40 hours to harvest) only to buy the thinks i MAYBE need to build a Ship with S Containers.

And then all again to build a ship with M Containers.

 

Im ok with this, if NQ wants new Players to play like this.

But then its simply not my kind of game.

Whats pretty sad for me: As i bought the gametime (my knowledge base on the Game before the Blueprints) I thought, this game was pretty much what i wanted for years.

I played fine for like 2 months with a ship with 6s containers (which hold around 60kl of material), it was able to lift (and land) ~120/130t of cargo WITHOUT talents, because back then I was focusing on mining talents.

I am no hauling master so I'm pretty sure anyone can achieve better results with little effort.

 

Mind that this game is 90% mining atm, even if you could build without schematics as we did before 0.23 you'll be stuck on mining anyway.

 

[Towakin]

1. You can build all T1 xs things with your nanocrafter. With that you can learn what you need and how to do it.

2. You can build a properly flyable miniship with speeder parts. If you don't want to learn that I sell such mini planes all parts included at markets 6, 7 and 17 for 50k.

3. Sell some ore to bots. One inventory load is about 100k. If you stay below 20 tons you can use a miniplane, goes about 700 km/h in practice.

4. Buy a larger container. M is great for beginners. With it deployed on your base (on Alioth!) or a ship if you can, you gain some freedom.

5. Use "support" chat for single issue questions or looking for people to help you. People there are very helpful in my experience.

6. Aquire the knowledge to build your own ship, practice with xs then buy parts from market or buy a complete ship from another player. 

 

Industry was a huge part of gameplay which is now eliminated, so I be damned if I know what to do with your time once you have some stuff. But frankly everything you describe is easily doable, all you need to fix is your attitude, and ask some people ingame for advice and help, most of them are bored anyways lol

[Burble]

1 hour ago, Towakin said:

 

 

Industry was a huge part of gameplay which is now eliminated

No, just no. We really should stop spreading this lie. It is not eliminated at all, it is just a much longer and more rewarding game. Anyone can have a factory that makes a few specialized parts within a week. The only difference is that now not everyone can build everything in the game right away. Which is vital if any kind of market economy that make sense is to exist.

 

 

[Deintus]

1 hour ago, Burble said:

No, just no. We really should stop spreading this lie. It is not eliminated at all, it is just a much longer and more rewarding game. Anyone can have a factory that makes a few specialized parts within a week. The only difference is that now not everyone can build everything in the game right away. Which is vital if any kind of market economy that make sense is to exist.

 

 

I agree its not eliminated. That is a bit extreme. But I haven't seen big demands like 1000 basic s frames yet either.

 

There is still a demand needed in the market that I did not see.

 

[Fra119]

21 minutes ago, Deintus said:

I agree its not eliminated. That is a bit extreme. But I haven't seen big demands like 1000 basic s frames yet either.

 

There is still a demand needed in the market that I did not see.

 

I see no reason for intermediary product to be on the market honestly, I'd either buy the finished element or set up the entire line needed to build it myself from raw ores.

Also most of the intermediary items (like frames) are used for more than 1 element, so why should an industrialist skip them, they are basically the first thing you should have available.

[Deintus]

1 hour ago, Fra119 said:

I see no reason for intermediary product to be on the market honestly, I'd either buy the finished element or set up the entire line needed to build it myself from raw ores.

Also most of the intermediary items (like frames) are used for more than 1 element, so why should an industrialist skip them, they are basically the first thing you should have available.

I am speaking from a new player perspective as well as my own. As has been mentioned, you have to mine for endless hours to get the quanta for end products. But what products will sell? Which one element is worth sinking millions of quanta into? After spending 30 gaming hours or more mining to get to the point of say, basic medium engines. What do you do if it doesn't sell? Where can you sell a basic blueprint to make back money for another venture? And in the end, what is the reward?

 

This game gave me the impression that final elements are for non-industrialists and end consumers while intermediary was for industries and diy

 

One thing intermediary parts can serve is to bypass producing them yourself, making it to where all you need is an assembler for the final element and one blueprint. Much cheaper that way and gives new industrilists someone to sell screws to. In RL, hardware stores would not exist if there wasn't a demand for things like screws, etc. 

 

Devils advocate. In this game there is no demand, so I do understand your point of view.

 

[Bobbie]

.

[Fra119]

2 hours ago, Deintus said:

I am speaking from a new player perspective as well as my own. As has been mentioned, you have to mine for endless hours to get the quanta for end products. But what products will sell? Which one element is worth sinking millions of quanta into? After spending 30 gaming hours or more mining to get to the point of say, basic medium engines. What do you do if it doesn't sell? Where can you sell a basic blueprint to make back money for another venture? And in the end, what is the reward?

 

This game gave me the impression that final elements are for non-industrialists and end consumers while intermediary was for industries and diy

 

One thing intermediary parts can serve is to bypass producing them yourself, making it to where all you need is an assembler for the final element and one blueprint. Much cheaper that way and gives new industrilists someone to sell screws to. In RL, hardware stores would not exist if there wasn't a demand for things like screws, etc. 

 

Devils advocate. In this game there is no demand, so I do understand your point of view.

 

That is why I'm telling you there's no point in skipping intermediary part. If you go for basic engines and no-one buy them you can still switch to another element which shares some ingredients with said engines. Your first choice won't be a 100% failure.

Btw my humble suggestion is going for airfoils in general as they are the most abused elements atm.

 

Going back to the progression, this game is everything but fast, even without schematics it will take a shitload of time to build up welfare, and ~75% of that time will be mining, assuming you are alone ofc. You can find an org sure, but if you just started you won't have the talents to be a pilot or an industrialist, so again... mining.

Excuse me if I may sound like I wanted to add weight on your burden, what I'm trying to say (with my basic english) is take it slow, feel free to experiment and try not to rush, as there is absolutely nothing to rush for.

 

 

 

[Deintus]

@Fra119
yes, it is a very slow game for sure ?

[Towakin]

20 hours ago, Burble said:

No, just no. We really should stop spreading this lie. It is not eliminated at all, it is just a much longer and more rewarding game. Anyone can have a factory that makes a few specialized parts within a week. The only difference is that now not everyone can build everything in the game right away. Which is vital if any kind of market economy that make sense is to exist.

 

 

FU fanboy it is not a lie. The schematic system is broken no matter what you fanboys claim. If my 3d printer could only print a part after I paid 500€ for that 5€ part's schematic I'd throw it in the trash, so much for "like in RL". In the alpha they made it more accessible so people could build had an extra gameplay element. It turned out people liked doing industry a lot and managing and building your factory became a central aspect of DU. This is a fact and no whining from your part can change this. Now this is gone. No, setting up a single line is no fun, no, feeding it 24/7 and praying prices won't drop so I don't make a massive loss is not an option. They should have consulted someone with some game design experience because this machanic is completely broken yet it could have been done so well.

And no, industry was never meant to be used to lock yourself into producing one item only. NQ themselves stated industry and market is to build parts that are expensive on the market and switch once they get too cheap. Yep that's not gonna work anymore.