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Spaceboys ask big wipe


Kormolos

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3 minutes ago, Netheris said:

Renewable ore is needed in the safe zone as well, Its only t1-t3, and its vital to keep non pvp people in game. Remember the herbivores vs carnivores/predators on earth, when one die, so do the other, just a little later.

Here is the error in that thinking in my view. If T1-T3 are renewable in the safe zone no needs to bother with T4/T5. They have nearly no uses aside from fluff parts. Plus if they keep these stupid bots buying low tier ore no one ever has to leave the safe zone to make $$. You can make the case for renewable T1/T2 ore maybe if you remove bots buying ore ever again. All of which would function far better after a hard wipe letting people only keep their skill points. This would likely need to be after TW and the PvP revamp , Energy , etc.

 

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8 minutes ago, Xennial said:

Here is the error in that thinking in my view. If T1-T3 are renewable in the safe zone no needs to bother with T4/T5. They have nearly no uses aside from fluff parts. Plus if they keep these stupid bots buying low tier ore no one ever has to leave the safe zone to make $$. You can make the case for renewable T1/T2 ore maybe if you remove bots buying ore ever again. All of which would function far better after a hard wipe letting people only keep their skill points. This would likely need to be after TW and the PvP revamp , Energy , etc.

 

Renewable should not mean a full respawn,  a % of ore should respawn and still require time. Bots, I agree with, but they need to be removed as features providing cash do arrive (missions, pve, bounty, etc). About people going for t4 and t5,  lots of people will attempt to get it, and if successful even once, that will bring more activity to pvp zones. God knows pvp zones need them. If a number of players remain in safe zones only and just do creative stuff, good for game, they still pay subs.

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50 minutes ago, Netheris said:

Thats a really good idea there, to make asteroids spread and numerous and to prevent camping. That way fast small crews can sneak in, steal stuff and have a chance to accomplish something while playing hide and shriek with the pvp predator, rather then just coming into a pvp camp/kill zone. 

 

Renewable ore is needed in the safe zone as well, Its only t1-t3, and its vital to keep non pvp people in game. Remember the herbivores vs carnivores/predators on earth, when one die, so do the other, just a little later.

Camping asteroids was the thing I was most concerned about when I first heard about them. Just look at how things are done here, if that particular asteroid with T3/T4/T5 ore is going to endlessly respawn where it is then the first thing that will happen is orgs walling that rock with L cores and that's it, no more asteroid.

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My mind has changed on this: I used to be completely anti-wipe but now I would support it. I have not played DU in months for a combination of personal reasons and because the core gameplay is still being developed (I effectively quit when the upvote site went up that revealed that all my work setting up complicated factories was going to have to be re-done when the industry functionality got changed), and also because... I had kinda reached the end of the content.

 

I do believe that NQ effectively promised no wipes, and I do worry about the cost of them going back on that promise. I don't have an opinion of whether it's appropriate to be balancing *core gameplay* functionality in a Beta, but I do believe you've gotta wipe between that kind of balancing and full release.

 

Their financial situation may prevent this, but I'd like to see:

- NQ more clearly define their vision for the game, *concretely enough that it will turn some people off*

- NQ proceed to work to implement that vision

- once that vision is fundamentally complete and core aspects are balanced, wipe

 

I don't see a problem with charging subscriptions during this process (that said I'm an Alpha backer so, this doesn't affect me).

 

At the end of the day, this is a game, if we play it it should be because we enjoy it. Some of the feature changes that frustrated me (due to effect on what I'd done in the game already) look pretty cool if I consider what it'd be like to be a new player! I loved the rush at the start of Beta, as an industrialist. I would enjoy doing that again, and with the new functionality that rush would last a lot longer as the content would be harder to access!

 

I am motivated in these games by long-term progress, so I do understand the aversion to a wipe. But I stopped playing in part because... there wasn't much more long-term progress to be made.

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4 minutes ago, Poliwopper said:

- NQ more clearly define their vision for the game, *concretely enough that it will turn some people off*

- NQ proceed to work to implement that vision

- once that vision is fundamentally complete and core aspects are balanced, wipe

Doing this makes the most sense concerning wipes. It also seems likely the wipe would occur as far as a year or more away. One thing NQ should consider, doing a wipe is bound to loose some subscribers. But the loss will be far more damaging if players feel blind-sided or misled like previously.

 

I think it's in their best interest to announce a definitive wipe now, instead of waiting until later. The damage to number of subscribers and perceived company reliability/believability could be far worse later if they keep up the vague "maybe we will maybe we won't"

 

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21 hours ago, Deintus said:

Doing this makes the most sense concerning wipes. It also seems likely the wipe would occur as far as a year or more away. One thing NQ should consider, doing a wipe is bound to loose some subscribers. But the loss will be far more damaging if players feel blind-sided or misled like previously.

 

I think it's in their best interest to announce a definitive wipe now, instead of waiting until later. The damage to number of subscribers and perceived company reliability/believability could be far worse later if they keep up the vague "maybe we will maybe we won't"

 

They already made a statement on the wipe policy and that's a commitment many accepted and paid for, if you don't like it you have to live with it. Talking about it is not going to change it.

 

"No wipes unless there is no other way"

 

if some space taxi drivers want a wipe they can give me their stuff and consider wipe done.

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43 minutes ago, XKentX said:

They already made a statement on the wipe policy and that's a commitment many accepted and paid for, if you don't like it you have to live with it. Talking about it is not going to change it.

 

"No wipes unless there is no other way"

 

if some space taxi drivers want a wipe they can give me their stuff and consider wipe done.

That is the same as maybe yes maybe no. They did not define what this "no other way" means, or what their criteria actually is for this "other way". If 2 or 3 big orgs dominate is that a reason? Is space taxi drivers yell loud enough a reason? Is their wipe reason economy based?

 

That's why I think they should be more firm as to what this is. Tell us now imho

 

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Beyond all other issues, I think DU can't afford wipe simply out of demographic reasons.

 

Currently there is probably just several thousands more or less active players. Many of them (who are not fanatical voxelmancers or other cultists) play/log in/hang around not because they enjoy current game-grind-play process that much, but exactly because it all persistant and will, potentialy, benefit them in "bright future".


To reliably muck up all this people with wipe, NQ need to be pretty darn sure they can get new (replacement) players by release in huge numbers. This is at best dodgy. So, NQ need by any means preserve viable population (I hope 0.23 thing was good warning for them) until better days. Another consideration, that with wipe NQ likely to lose not just any players, but vetarans of many years, who are still backbone of game existance as something meaningful. 

 

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10 hours ago, Deintus said:

That is the same as maybe yes maybe no. They did not define what this "no other way" means, or what their criteria actually is for this "other way". If 2 or 3 big orgs dominate is that a reason? Is space taxi drivers yell loud enough a reason? Is their wipe reason economy based?

 

That's why I think they should be more firm as to what this is. Tell us now imho

 

2-3 orgs dominating happens in almost every single-shard big MMO. That's normal, it's the same even in RL (there is always just a couple of "big" empires/countries that dominate)

 

Saying that taxi drives have any say in should the world be wiped or not is like saying my grandma should have a say about American response to 9/11... It doesn't matter.

 

They should not be "more firm", they are pretty firm already. If something like dupe bug exploiting the economy and going unnoticed for long time happens or some other big messup that can't be easily reverted and completely screws up the game then it's "no other way". Anything else, like every second noob that joined yesterday or been digging for last month saying "wipe all ! so I can fail miserably again !" is not "no other way".

 

 

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7 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

To reliably muck up all this people with wipe, NQ need to be pretty darn sure they can get new (replacement) players by release in huge numbers. This is at best dodgy. So, NQ need by any means preserve viable population (I hope 0.23 thing was good warning for them) until better days. Another consideration, that with wipe NQ likely to lose not just any players, but vetarans of many years, who are still backbone of game existance as something meaningful. 

 

100% agree. More over, wipe doesn't bring any benefits it just erases what people were playing for.

 

The wealth imbalance is something that is always there in "player driven open market" aka "capitalism" system, it's normal.

 

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

They should not be "more firm", they are pretty firm already. If something like dupe bug exploiting the economy and going unnoticed for long time happens or some other big messup that can't be easily reverted and completely screws up the game then it's "no other way". Anything else, like every second noob that joined yesterday or been digging for last month saying "wipe all ! so I can fail miserably again !" is not "no other way".

More firm was the wrong word choice, my apologies. I mean there should be a more definitive rule they stick to. Unlike what they have been doing, they should be crystal clear by what they mean.

 

Do you happen to have a link to where NQ states the above?

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1 minute ago, Deintus said:

More firm was the wrong word choice, my apologies. I mean there should be a more definitive rule they stick to. Unlike what they have been doing, they should be crystal clear by what they mean.

 

Do you happen to have a link to where NQ states the above?

Agree with the crystal clear part. It should not be in any doubt.

 

Don't have exact link, it's like all other info, you remember reading it somewhere / hearing it on some interview but don't recall which one.

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11 hours ago, XKentX said:

Agree with the crystal clear part. It should not be in any doubt.

 

Don't have exact link, it's like all other info, you remember reading it somewhere / hearing it on some interview but don't recall which one.

They may not as stated have any plans "at this time" for a wipe, that does not mean one won't happen. You can't find a definitive statement without a qualifier because even NQ recognizes with the number of core systems being changed in the game the possibility of a wipe does exist. You insistence that they "promised" you is not going to help you when that day comes. While I think a wipe would have been much healthier then not with this patch, I understand them waiting to put in some more things before wiping. They should never have gone so hard on the verbiage of "no wipe unless no other way" because they are really only shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I also find it amusing that the most avid anti-wipe folk are the ones accusing anyone asking for one of just be jealous of all their "success". Dress it up all you like, but at the end of the day your just ego tripping. You would not care if a dupe was running for months undiscovered, or whatever reasons you think are the only qualifications , you would argue against it because you don't want to lose all your stuff. You have no objectivity to a wipe discussion because for you it seems to start and stop at "wait , you wanna take my virtual stuff? @#$ off!!".  

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If they want to wipe they will wipe regardless of whoever feels entitled to not have one — more over, they should wipe before official launch because in a game with competitive aspects allowing people to get years of head start is just a “couldn’t actually compete wannabe elite” handholding simulator.

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JC said himself that he wants for there to be a thriving civilization come launch.

Wiping goes completely against what he wants.

 

The only way a wipe will work is if people get to use their magic blueprints and keep their talent points.

 

Aside from the notions previously mentioned.

JC also stated this was a "soft-launch", which means we're playing for keeps. Which also reinforces the notion for subscribers to keep what they've worked hard to build.

So again, if a wipe needs to happen, because they "Absolutely have to" then the magic blueprints need to be activated so those who paid physical money for the work they've put into the game see some kind of value behind their work.

 

Otherwise, NQ wiping with no magic blue prints means they've just robbed people blind... which means barely anyone would trust them at all

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11 hours ago, Demlock said:

JC said himself that he wants for there to be a thriving civilization come launch.

Wiping goes completely against what he wants.

 

The only way a wipe will work is if people get to use their magic blueprints and keep their talent points.

 

Aside from the notions previously mentioned.

JC also stated this was a "soft-launch", which means we're playing for keeps. Which also reinforces the notion for subscribers to keep what they've worked hard to build.

So again, if a wipe needs to happen, because they "Absolutely have to" then the magic blueprints need to be activated so those who paid physical money for the work they've put into the game see some kind of value behind their work.

 

Otherwise, NQ wiping with no magic blue prints means they've just robbed people blind... which means barely anyone would trust them at all

I think it's funny when people attempt to put a real world price tag on virtual items. You realize by the ToS you own NOTHING in game, have ZERO rights to it in any capacity whatsoever. It will at some point in the hopefully distant future be erased from the planet when DU servers shut down. 

 

Them wiping is not 'robbing' you of anything because you 'own' NOTHING.

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On 12/27/2020 at 6:30 PM, XKentX said:

2-3 orgs dominating happens in almost every single-shard big MMO. That's normal, it's the same even in RL (there is always just a couple of "big" empires/countries that dominate)

Could make penalties for orgs over a certain member limit. Let's suppose that for up to x members, upkeep on org owned territory is free. For every member over that limit, each org owned hex incurs a certain daily upkeep in quanta. 10 players? Fine. 20 players? Still fine. Cap is 25. At 30 players, each hex costs 1 million quanta per day fee. At 50, each hex costs 5 million quanta per day.

 

Would make life very interesting.

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20 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Could make penalties for orgs over a certain member limit. Let's suppose that for up to x members, upkeep on org owned territory is free. For every member over that limit, each org owned hex incurs a certain daily upkeep in quanta. 10 players? Fine. 20 players? Still fine. Cap is 25. At 30 players, each hex costs 1 million quanta per day fee. At 50, each hex costs 5 million quanta per day.

 

Would make life very interesting.

Not rly. Everybody would just make 1man deadzone orgs with proper rdms to avoid all that 

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If you make a game with an economy that can be manipulated by players (community driven in PC terms), big orgs will dominate by default. Just like RL with mega corps. I seriously don't understand why people are surprised by this? And no amount of wipe will avoid this, unless the entire player driven economy pillar is removed from the game.

 

But here is the trick. Which big org is 'winning' the game does not matter at all for 99% of players just doing their own thing with some friends. Or at least they used to before 0.23. And forcing people to rely on the market will just give more power to the big orgs long term since they will now be able to totally dominate production of components.

 

 

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100 percent wipe reason
1- T5 bug early in the begining of game it braked the balance of game 
2- Exploid about transfer stuff without mass
3- Alot of information leaked by ATV to only orgs
4- People who knows shematics when coming they made stock
5- Shematic price will effect new player alot they cant never make warp beacon but people have 2-3 maybe 10 warp beacon allready...
6- Finish the game fix all the bugs when you finish the game wipe it and never say lie people about we not gonna wipe be honest we will still play game in a diffrent way...

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On 12/31/2020 at 11:51 AM, Xennial said:

I think it's funny when people attempt to put a real world price tag on virtual items. You realize by the ToS you own NOTHING in game, have ZERO rights to it in any capacity whatsoever. It will at some point in the hopefully distant future be erased from the planet when DU servers shut down. 

 

Them wiping is not 'robbing' you of anything because you 'own' NOTHING.

I think its funny you assumed my "robbing people blind" statement was directly pointed towards money or ownership of anything... other than time spent.
The ToS in terms of ownership is something that is inherent with the game, and should go without saying.

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