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Spaceboys ask big wipe


Kormolos

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3 minutes ago, Triopalite said:

But the game is in Beta, not full release. They said they 'hope' not to have to wipe the game. I just think it would help because the game really is still Alpha, from what I have experienced. They released into beta too early.

 

In early access games, expect the unexpected.

Saying "ow, there is imbalance of some people getting too far ahead of others" and doing a wipe to achieve space communism is not a valid reason for "we hope not to wipe".

 

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1 minute ago, XKentX said:

Saying "ow, there is imbalance of some people getting too far ahead of others" and doing a wipe to achieve space communism is not a valid reason for "we hope not to wipe".

 

Its also not really valid to put a game into beta whilst clearly still only Alpha. Its also not valid for players to cry about changes in early access games, you have to expect to get any type of change, including a wipe to the whole game. Just the way dev goes.

 

DU isn't released we're all in it early, even in beta.

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1 minute ago, Triopalite said:

Its also not really valid to put a game into beta whilst clearly still only Alpha. Its also not valid for players to cry about changes in early access games, you have to expect to get any type of change, including a wipe to the whole game. Just the way dev goes.

 

DU isn't released we're all in it early, even in beta.

I don't care how it released and when.

 

They said "no wipe unless there is no other way". Having economic imbalance (that will eventually come anyway, look at eve, try joining competing economically with 10 year old economic vet) is not a reason for a wipe.

Rebalance, patch stuff, make it upside down. Don't wipe.

 

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2 minutes ago, XKentX said:

I don't care how it released and when.

 

They said "no wipe unless there is no other way". Having economic imbalance (that will eventually come anyway, look at eve, try joining competing economically with 10 year old economic vet) is not a reason for a wipe.

Rebalance, patch stuff, make it upside down. Don't wipe.

 

If you think you have too much to lose, then you really shouldn't play early access games.

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5 minutes ago, Triopalite said:

If you think you have too much to lose, then you really shouldn't play early access games.

I read the game description, it says "beta". In game industry 2020 it means "it just compiled for the first time, no idea how it will run".

Then I read "we will not wipe unless there is no other way".

I calculated should I get on now or not, decided to get on and paid 21$ for a sub.

It's not about how much I have to lose, it's about my time invested in this.

 

If they would say "you can get on now but we will wipe before release" I would 100% not sign up. If they play me and wipe for weak reason, I will feel betrayed and cancel my sub. That's one promise too many broken.

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1 minute ago, XKentX said:

I read the game description, it says "beta". In game industry 2020 it means "it just compiled for the first time, no idea how it will run".

Then I read "we will not wipe unless there is no other way".

I calculated should I get on now or not, decided to get on and paid 21$ for a sub.

It's not about how much I have to lose, it's about my time invested in this.

When I said too much to lose, I didn't mean money.

 

My whole game collection is from early access. I get into games early if I like what they are trying to achieve. I also know 'not' to take anything they (the devs) say as 'in stone'. Dev changes will happen when they least think it will, because its the players playing early access that brings up game problems, it would be impossible without players playing and testing a game, even triple 'A' titles have testers.

 

I always expect changes, in my view the game, when finally released, which I think is some way off yet, however, I think it would benefit from a wipe to start afresh and inject new players with the game at a stable stage, not as it is now.

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8 minutes ago, Triopalite said:

When I said too much to lose, I didn't mean money.

 

My whole game collection is from early access. I get into games early if I like what they are trying to achieve. I also know 'not' to take anything they (the devs) say as 'in stone'. Dev changes will happen when they least think it will, because its the players playing early access that brings up game problems, it would be impossible without players playing and testing a game, even triple 'A' titles have testers.

 

I always expect changes, in my view the game, when finally released, which I think is some way off yet, however, I think it would benefit from a wipe to start afresh and inject new players with the game at a stable stage, not as it is now.

"Wipe" will make more harm than good.

 

Here are the options that are possible to achieve the same without actually wiping:

 

1) Introduce new ways to generate wealth that highly outclass the old methods making what people had in past irrelevant.

2) After release, introduce "new solar system" (second ark ship or something for lore):

People can "reset" and start in new system OR they continue in the old system but it will take 30-60-90 days(adjust per balance) until the gate is built that is connecting the systems so new folks at release in the "new system" get the whole experience before they are flooded by vets with their assets. You also get that cool "getting united" moment for free too. + Some vets will buy second account just to have access to new system while keeping their old folk running too - more account revenue.

 

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

The economy in game is broken because NQ has permitted and continues to allow several big orgs and players to benefit off of oversight, mistakes, bugs and exploits which were apparent a day after the full wipe prior to the beta start. They have continued this throughout beta so far. The economy not starting is not because of "isolationist and self sufficient" solo and small group players but due to big orgs who have no need to feed or use the economy in game at all as they are entirely able to tend to their own. And the mission system coming in three months will not change any of that as they will use it only to cater to their own members exclusively and spread the wealth internally.

I don't see how a wipe will change this.

The way I see it, the economy is mostly struggling because the game does not have a game loop/ecosystem that justifies a thriving economy.

 

The goal of a large org's will always be to become self sufficient, and with hundreds of players pooling recurses after a wipe they will quickly get ahead again and complete self sufficiency will only be a matter of time. Meaning that long term the economy has to be able to function without large org's using markets. Or put in another words. If large org's where forced to use the markets exclusively, they would also be in a position to largely dictate the market economy. And I bet you that would not be in favor of small players.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

I don't see how a wipe will change this.

The way I see it, the economy is mostly struggling because the game does not have a game loop/ecosystem that justifies a thriving economy.

 

The goal of a large org's will always be to become self sufficient, and with hundreds of players pooling recurses after a wipe they will quickly get ahead again and complete self sufficiency will only be a matter of time. Meaning that long term the economy has to be able to function without large org's using markets. Or put in another words. If large org's where forced to use the markets exclusively, they would also be in a position to largely dictate the market economy. And I bet you that would not be in favor of small players.

That "big orgs" and "small players" discussion has nothing to do with economy. People should stop caring about big orgs. All games have it and there is nothing you can do about it. 100 people will have more "stuff" that 1 person unless game does something stupid.

 

Economy is not something you "make" it something that "evolves naturally" over time. If the environment being turned upside down every other week(schems, schem prices, element destruction), then nothing can evolve in it.

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8 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

I don't see how a wipe will change this.

The way I see it, the economy is mostly struggling because the game does not have a game loop/ecosystem that justifies a thriving economy.

 

The goal of a large org's will always be to become self sufficient, and with hundreds of players pooling recurses after a wipe they will quickly get ahead again and complete self sufficiency will only be a matter of time. Meaning that long term the economy has to be able to function without large org's using markets. Or put in another words. If large org's where forced to use the markets exclusively, they would also be in a position to largely dictate the market economy. And I bet you that would not be in favor of small players.

 

 

 

Well which is it then? I hear solo players scream all the time they are the majority thats why everything has to be in their reach. Your argument that a large org can extricate themselves from the economy shouldn't be an issue then because if the 'majority' are solo or small group they can't full leave the economy.

 

Groups will always excel by virtue of people working together rather then solo to achieve the same goal. That is not the issue for the economy. The issue for the economy is the fact that bots exist at all and there is 0 running cost to industry past the schem gate now witch is only a small part of the equation. The fact that bots were in the game at all has lead to a lot of the problems due to allowing people to exploit their way to a sum of money that would have required them to interact with the economy without bots.

 

I only support a wipe if there are 0 bots outside of schem selling when the wipe is done. NQ's fascination with bots is a broken concept and preventing an economy from forming not bootstrapping one. 

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39 minutes ago, XKentX said:

"Wipe" will make more harm than good.

 

Here are the options that are possible to achieve the same without actually wiping:

 

1) Introduce new ways to generate wealth that highly outclass the old methods making what people had in past irrelevant.

2) After release, introduce "new solar system" (second ark ship or something for lore):

People can "reset" and start in new system OR they continue in the old system but it will take 30-60-90 days(adjust per balance) until the gate is built that is connecting the systems so new folks at release in the "new system" get the whole experience before they are flooded by vets with their assets. You also get that cool "getting united" moment for free too. + Some vets will buy second account just to have access to new system while keeping their old folk running too - more account revenue.

 

No, just wipe it.

Honestly, I think the game will probably get wiped ready for full release. Players playing should expect that this may happen, because as said.... Early Access.. We're here to test the game.

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Just now, Triopalite said:

No, just wipe it.

Honestly, I think the game will probably get wiped ready for full release. Players playing should expect that this may happen, because as said.... Early Access.. We're here to test the game.

Yea you like take what's written "no wipe unless there is no other way" don't like it and make up your own theory.

/logic.

 

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I have built quite a bit but would not be opposed to a wipe if the game will be better for it.

 

The reason for all of this is that the game was sold as beta but its alpha.  Now they might not really have had a choice but here we are.  JC seems like a nice guy but he can be his own worst enemy.  Because he is so open and reachable he makes statements that he must later back flip on.  Sanctuary was going to be the only "sanctuary".  I heard JC being interviewed by Markee Dragon.  In that interview JC said they had not quite decided but were pretty sure that half of Alioth would be territory PvP but the half near the district would be safe.  One week later its announced that not only is all of Alioth safe but that the entire multiplanet bubble will remain.

 

I dont want DU to be a lifeless game with too few players.  If they are clever enough fix it without a wipe (including org rebalance), then great.  If not then wipe.  It may end up they just have to risk it for the biscuit.

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3 minutes ago, XKentX said:

Yea you like take what's written "no wipe unless there is no other way" don't like it and make up your own theory.

/logic.

 

Your here playing the game.. So am I.

Difference is, I understand we're still in early access, you have got into the mind set of the game is released. But it isn't yet.

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7 minutes ago, Triopalite said:

Your here playing the game.. So am I.

Difference is, I understand we're still in early access, you have got into the mind set of the game is released. But it isn't yet.

If you think that what happens in DU atm never happened in other MMO games and they continued without a wipe.... Oh my..

 

BTW: from what I know DU till now didn't even "rollback", they keep that too for now. EVE did rollback in beta https://www.eveonline.com/article/rollback-1

 

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@blazemongerBeta is the environment to test scenarios, measure the economy, find the right thing that is needed to make things move towards the right direction. The word...healthy economy doesnt exist anywhere. In RL or Here, its broken. There will never be a player driven virtual world because it never was and it will never be. All you will get is DEV biased opinion on how he wants to run the things.

Look at Eve and look at BDO. Valid economies, both are different. Set price vs player driven. Both are not healthy but they are working. DU Is working. And the direction is good. Just because people are mining doesnt mean anything that DU its boring to stream and to watch. Players are mainly upset the stage of development when joined. THey thought they could do so many things...

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These topics are funny.  A wipe isn't going to put your org on a level playing field with the mega orgs for long.  They'll just exploit the best remaining method of gaining wealth with their superior numbers and rebuild the lead quickly.  It's silly to try for a level playing field where the system just doesn't allow for it.  Bigger wins in this type of game, deal with it.

And a wipe now would be a disaster.  The early game in DU really isn't great now.  I for one will not mine hundreds of more hours just to rebuild everything I have now.   Maybe once the game is feature complete a wipe should be considered.  Right now, no.  Stop asking please. 

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17 minutes ago, DaneDread said:

These topics are funny.  A wipe isn't going to put your org on a level playing field with the mega orgs for long.  They'll just exploit the best remaining method of gaining wealth with their superior numbers and rebuild the lead quickly.  It's silly to try for a level playing field where the system just doesn't allow for it.  Bigger wins in this type of game, deal with it.

And a wipe now would be a disaster.  The early game in DU really isn't great now.  I for one will not mine hundreds of more hours just to rebuild everything I have now.   Maybe once the game is feature complete a wipe should be considered.  Right now, no.  Stop asking please. 

Looks like someone just got bored doing taxi service and said "oh, let's wipe it maybe I will find something else to do"...

 

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5 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Or, a wipe could bring back all the people who quit because they would now feel they're on an even footing, rather than with all the exploiting megacorps and their insane stockpiles.

why would they come back if its the same game with the same problems? wipe makes only sense when the game is final and great and we are far away from that. ATLAS was killed by wipes. i know it i played 800hours of it and i saw the same trash arguments for a wipe in the atlas forums 2 years ago.

 

there is only one acceptable wipe but only at the end of beta. talent points should never be wiped in my opinion btw

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I'd say they'll "wipe" introducing a new system, I we ever get to the number of players needed to justify a new system.

Atm the raw space we have is more than enough for thousands of more players, ore-wise who knows, minable asteroids might bring enough ores to sustain everyone.

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7 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

I'd say they'll "wipe" introducing a new system, I we ever get to the number of players needed to justify a new system.

Atm the raw space we have is more than enough for thousands of more players, ore-wise who knows, minable asteroids might bring enough ores to sustain everyone.

I fear that post sub renew date we will not have enough players so there is 1 miner per planet...

If we get a wipe, then at least the new system will remain human-free I guess.

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25 minutes ago, XKentX said:

I fear that post sub renew date we will not have enough players so there is 1 miner per planet...

If we get a wipe, then at least the new system will remain human-free I guess.

Yes yes, naturally because you don't like the idea the game would insta die because of a wipe. Naturally 99% of the playerbase simply must be in your camp on the issue

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16 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Why though?

 

why are people so obsessed with other people's progress in the game.

 

Progress in games like this is cumulative.  You progress over time.  Through patience, and effort.

 

There's no leader board.  No ranking.  You can't be the winner.

 

Just let people play the game. 

Because their subs are running out soon and they want the game to die. They know that we will leave if they wipe. They also want to be those guys to yell on media on reddit...I TOLD YOU DU SUCKS, MKAY? I TOLD YOU SO! Most of these people spread FUD and FOMO because they know they've missed a train, which train? i dont know. THey also know that if Devs wipe they wont have anything to measure, to counter to decide if any future speed of progress is fast or slow or it needs tweaks. Imagine all the battles 3-6 months from now on based on elements we've farmed pre and post 0.23 imagine they have no idea we can test and devs can measure and we can provide tons of feedback based on future weapons damage, atmo tactics, new mechanics, etc. They want the game to die so 6 months from now nobody can have anything and devs have nothing to measure to development takes 2 more years. And this is what they are doing...

What they dont know...when they will leave, we will be the ones writing stories in game and they will be the ones reading our stories on reddit.

The fear of missing out, the uncertainty and doubt is their main card. And

o7
 

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