CptKidd Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 First a little discovery NASA finds rare metal asteroid worth more than global economy https://www.mining.com/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-more-than-global-economy/ A iron and nickel asteroid (with possibility of trace elements) worth at least ($10,000,000,000,000,000,000) at current prices More than ever has been mined or will ever be mined. see article how. In the future there will be unlimited ore and if you have starship technically then there will be unlimited energy. Now back to the DU Future. base on this, There is no economy, as we know it. The only problem will be getting to the asteroid and getting the good stuff back. (Side note , in past resources were moved to a center place to refined and developed because of energy needs. now best do as much work on sit of resources). What will be the economy, suggest it will be in ideas of products. Example, walkman vs iPhone. Walkman was then current radio made very small. The iPhone is not a "cell phone" that others companies make just as well and cheaper. (Apple’s value added) It is a flow of ideas from internet using cell tech. For DU, what to do, suggest build ideas and trade them How to turn ideas into things is the problem in the new economy. Suggest one idea: Develop more components that link into each other to build possibilities. Best example I know is “ Factorio ” it’s not a game but a way of life. Factorio’s only problem it's final goal is limited, DU goal should be much more open ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underhook Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 5 hours ago, CptKidd said: First a little discovery NASA finds rare metal asteroid worth more than global economy https://www.mining.com/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-more-than-global-economy/ A iron and nickel asteroid (with possibility of trace elements) worth at least ($10,000,000,000,000,000,000) at current prices More than ever has been mined or will ever be mined. see article how. In the future there will be unlimited ore and if you have starship technically then there will be unlimited energy. Now back to the DU Future. base on this, There is no economy, as we know it. The only problem will be getting to the asteroid and getting the good stuff back. (Side note , in past resources were moved to a center place to refined and developed because of energy needs. now best do as much work on sit of resources). What will be the economy, suggest it will be in ideas of products. Example, walkman vs iPhone. Walkman was then current radio made very small. The iPhone is not a "cell phone" that others companies make just as well and cheaper. (Apple’s value added) It is a flow of ideas from internet using cell tech. For DU, what to do, suggest build ideas and trade them How to turn ideas into things is the problem in the new economy. Suggest one idea: Develop more components that link into each other to build possibilities. Best example I know is “ Factorio ” it’s not a game but a way of life. Factorio’s only problem it's final goal is limited, DU goal should be much more open ended. The most traded commodity on planet earth is oil (energy) which hopefully will not be needed in the future (almost free renewables). The 2nd most traded commodity on earth is coffee I'm glad we dont have to eat in the game but its clear to me that food (food would be very expensive) production and transport would be huge in this future world with lots of citizens in a new solar system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptKidd Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 oh no not coffee, well there is tea, food no big deal, vat grown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xennial Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 19 hours ago, CptKidd said: First a little discovery NASA finds rare metal asteroid worth more than global economy https://www.mining.com/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-more-than-global-economy/ A iron and nickel asteroid (with possibility of trace elements) worth at least ($10,000,000,000,000,000,000) at current prices More than ever has been mined or will ever be mined. see article how. In the future there will be unlimited ore and if you have starship technically then there will be unlimited energy. Now back to the DU Future. base on this, There is no economy, as we know it. The only problem will be getting to the asteroid and getting the good stuff back. (Side note , in past resources were moved to a center place to refined and developed because of energy needs. now best do as much work on sit of resources). What will be the economy, suggest it will be in ideas of products. Example, walkman vs iPhone. Walkman was then current radio made very small. The iPhone is not a "cell phone" that others companies make just as well and cheaper. (Apple’s value added) It is a flow of ideas from internet using cell tech. For DU, what to do, suggest build ideas and trade them How to turn ideas into things is the problem in the new economy. Suggest one idea: Develop more components that link into each other to build possibilities. Best example I know is “ Factorio ” it’s not a game but a way of life. Factorio’s only problem it's final goal is limited, DU goal should be much more open ended. That utopian future would be nice. I like star trek too. If you think the only builders creations should be bought and sold you will have a mass exodus. The problem with the 'economy' is largely that they insist on the stupid bots buying and selling products / ore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptKidd Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 The problem is how do you jump start an economy. An egg and chicken problem, a need for currency before there is a way to make currency. So mining = currency an there were bots to buy and sell. BUT the problem was we are dealing with 21st century man where bigger is better, amount of product instead of type of product. Granted some did build excellent factories, but again they were limited by the types of sub assemblies . The parts were by (listed) assemblies and not by function. I disagree " mass exodus" people will build to explore and fight. This not a utopian future, this is now , ships are being sent out and return with samples, industrious are running space programs (not just one by several). It is the beginning . Going back to the game to find a solution to a future real problem, the move from a consumer base to an unlimited ore/energy base economy ? So far the best I have is idea of constructs and sell them. Example like current copyright/blueprint. The are too few selling ships because the only way get currency is by mining or joining a co-op. Joining a co-op is fine but way too early after start. Really why fight . This has been done already, maybe the devs should create outside force control by them ( the unknown force from outside the galaxy/system ) to challenge players Any ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elitez Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 An economy (from Greek οίκος – "household" and νέμoμαι – "manage") is an area of the production, distribution and trade, as well as consumption of goods and services by different agents. We have this in DU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xennial Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 7 hours ago, CptKidd said: The problem is how do you jump start an economy. An egg and chicken problem, a need for currency before there is a way to make currency. So mining = currency an there were bots to buy and sell. You don't need to "jump start" an economy. Thats where all these problems originate is thinking this way. You have cash injection for every player every day. Cash is only an exchange mechanism, it has no value in and of itself in a free market. The actors in that market set the value of goods/services based on the overall cash supply and perceived value of goods. If you wiped out all bots, all in game cash, removed all taxes and then in turn gave everyone a one time 100,000 credit infusion what would happen? The only thing that can. People would exchange that based on the overal wealth level of the populus. Entire big ships would be sold for like 1,000 quanta , ore would be priced in the single digits or lower. Point is it all scales based on the average amount of money the average players have. On top of this the game already gives you a nanocrafter where you can make out of thin air and some ore the ability to make basic ships and systems to fly them. People didn't start real economies by having magical tooth fairies offer $ for rocks, or selling things before a single person ever made the thing. This is a broken way of thinking and it will forever destroy an actual player economy. Free markets work for a reason , only when governments or in this case NQ think they know how to control such markets better do problems arise. Jinxed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinxed Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Swap Shop or whatever it was called was a good example of ingeniously bypassing the ingame currency by creating another value proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptKidd Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 Flymart is one the best of these, but sadly because the great schematics depression his supply of items is drying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptKidd Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 I error by jumping ahead to explain how DU may have accidentally created an example of a real future economy problem (unlimited supply) and a suggested solution . Let me back up and review the current problem. The current economy system is base on supply and demand with currency has value holder. You want something and someone sells it to you by exchanging currency. The use of in-game currency is so you do not have to trade 100 billion pure iron bars for a space engine. The orginal game problem of how to get an economy started quickly. First give everyone money and/or a away to make it easily (mining). But you have the problem of waiting for manufacturing to kick in. So bots bought and supplied things, note It seem in beginning manufacturing was too much of good thing due all the pre-beta veteran players. With supply and demand system there are 4 ways to mess it up. 1. supply too much of something, which drives selling price too low. (deflation) 2. Too much demand cause price to go too high (inflation) 3. Supply too little, which seems to be like 2 but slightly different. 4. and too little demand cause price to drop again like 1. but from other side. DU original problem was run away supply, everyone build great factories to produce just what they needed (likely cause by unlimited raw material supply i.e no cost) There was no selling/buying except by the bots (except for a very few) The game broke down into 2 groups (veterans and new players or either you join a co-op or starved) This is were I get lost, thinking this what devs wanted large groups i.e. co-op but they seem to want trading which is at conflict with co-op being able to self produce everything they needed. Shutting down the bots by then would not have helped except to shut out the new players like myself . (mainly because they did not understand the game system) So it seems the devs cause a "great space depression” by shutting down ALL production everywhere with the schematics requirement. Only those with lots of saved in-game money will recover the quickest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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