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[Discuss] We've Heard You!


NQ-Naunet

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I couldnt help but laught when reading the op, because either they arent listening or they need to put their heading aids in and turn that shit up to 10.

 

I cant help feeling like NQ was like hey we have this car and for a monthly fee we will let you drive it. Obviously they dont trust us or like how we drive so they put all sorts of limits on what we can do. But it feels like we have hit the point where NQ is like hey we dont like how you turn the steering wheel 60 degrees in either direction and we only intended it to turn at like 15 degrees in either direction so we are going to have to take the steering capability from you or make it so you can only turn the wheel every couple mins bc we dont like how you drive. So we sit here and debate why they shouldnt take the steering whell from us or the windshield next which is on their list and why it is important to us in its purpose and function when we know damn well no matter what we say they already got the tools out ready to take the winshield in the end. If we are lucky they just shatter the windshield and leave it broken and useless while we debate why they shouldnt loosen all the lug nuts off the wheels next.

 

The devs at EverQuest Next said it best when they shut down EQN and Landmark when they said "It just wasnt fun".

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Underhook said:

You put a lot of effort into the post and it is interesting.  I think its a bit narrow though.  With regards to energy, you seem to be focusing on a very small part of human history (maybe 200 years).  It is conceivable and definitely possible that all energy production could be free within the lifetime of many on the planet.  The fossil fuel industry is doing their best to stop that happening.  Before energy was a thing, the big money was in food production.

You're absolutely right. Before 200 years or so it was a completely different world and society. I would love to see the world today being free from fossil fuels. But we can think of solar, water, wind, geothermal or even fusion energy in a game like this.

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19 minutes ago, Warlander said:

I couldnt help but laught when reading the op, because either they arent listening or they need to put their heading aids in and turn that shit up to 10.

 

I cant help feeling like NQ was like hey we have this car and for a monthly fee we will let you drive it. Obviously they dont trust us or like how we drive so they put all sorts of limits on what we can do. But it feels like we have hit the point where NQ is like hey we dont like how you turn the steering wheel 60 degrees in either direction and we only intended it to turn at like 15 degrees in either direction so we are going to have to take the steering capability from you or make it so you can only turn the wheel every couple mins bc we dont like how you drive. So we sit here and debate why they shouldnt take the steering whell from us or the windshield next which is on their list and why it is important to us in its purpose and function when we know damn well no matter what we say they already got the tools out ready to take the winshield in the end. If we are lucky they just shatter the windshield and leave it broken and useless while we debate why they shouldnt loosen all the lug nuts off the wheels next.

 

The devs at EverQuest Next said it best when they shut down EQN and Landmark when they said "It just wasnt fun".

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not discounting your post, but I don't share your opinion.

 

I played early Beta on EQN.  This is way beyond that in scope.  

 

I'm having fun.  I'm involved with a Corp of people having fun.  Is it perfect?  He** no, but I'm having an enormous amount of fun and I think it'll get better.  I don't share your negative viewpoint.

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Schematic pricing is still ridiculous. Take, for example, you want an AND operator for opening your doors. Something that you could make with three simple components and less than 100 h in materials has now turned into 500 h on the market or 544 815.89 h in schematics alone, at the now reduced prices. How is anyone supposes to sell what should be a 100 h part enough times ever in the game to make that back? Mind you, and this is not including the factory machines, I am assuming you already had that investment prior to .23. So even at the current market cost (which I will never use one at that expensive of a cost) of 4500 h, it would take 121 sales of what is essentially a fluff part to just break even. How does HQ expect to have an economy work with this being as ridiculously priced as this? I can go on the internet now and just look at a schematic on how to make an AND operator; this is silly. HQ wants this to be an R&D cost to limit entry. This definitely limits entry. However, HQ stated that they want this to be recuperated in approximately three months of sales. I cannot see selling 121 AND operators in a year leave alone three months, especially at the current market price. At a fair market price of somewhere around 200 h it would take ~2724 units to break even or, in my opinion, years of gameplay. The schematic for an advanced maneuver atmospheric engine L is 16 754 811.56 h alone, not including the millions of sub-component schematics, as the advanced burner alone is 677 8600.26 and an uncommon combustion chamber L schematic is 1 669 817.79 h. Given this, even a low estimate of 25 000 000 h is required to produce one engine. Current pricing on the market with only two available on Madis is 1 999 999, so about 12 units to recover the cost, but I don’t think a part that was selling for 200 000 h is now worth ten times its value. So again, around a 120 unit recovery to break even. The DU community is not big enough to support sales in these numbers at these costs.

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1. NQ's response should have been much, much faster. Silence between patch day and today doesn't make sense. It makes it seem like they really don't care. 

 

2. NQ's response doesn't change the math, here -- which says that ambitious project + no game dev experience equals a bad time. Are they changing how they approach design changes, or just reacting to criticism? Have they learned...anything?

 

3. All this is yet another big waste of time. They ought to be buttoning things up for release, but they keep spinning their wheels cleaning up vandalized markets or not understanding how to balance their own game/economy. It isn't this one patch alone, it's their entire approach (again...what did they actually learn from this..?). Looking ahead and realizing how little they've actually accomplished in the last 6 years makes me hesitant to invest my time today. 

 

Good luck everyone! Have fun, and brace yourselves for the next issue/controversy! I'll see y'all closer to 1.0! 

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15 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Agreed... 

If you crash, you still have to spend ages repairing the ship.. a lot of crashes (not all, but a proportion) are still caused by janky framerates, lags and (in my case yesterday losing a life on two L adjusters!) an uncontrollable spin due to high school level control programming whereby, if your computer skips a frame or two just as you let go the key, the LUA adjuster-stop-function subroutine that is supposed to return the adjuster level to 0 is never called and you end up offset from zero permanently... 


Also remember that in a collision, damage is applied ONLY to the elements regardless of how many voxels you have. You think you can protect your elements with a thick shield of voxels or embed them... LOOOOOL Nope... Impact damage completely disregards and skips the voxels and jumps from element to element based on distance from impact until all the damage is absorbed... potentially with enough damage transmitted from component to component to completely destroy all elements on your ship regardless of intervening concrete/titanium.... gold...

Clip the wingtip of an XS core ship at 150kph into another XS ship sitting on a landing pad: no biggie... Clip a stationary abandoned started speeder with an  M wing of your 10kT superfreighter at 150kph and boom: enough damage to destroy the wing AND transmit the remaining damage to surrounding components. And the little XS ship just sits there giving you the middle finger. ...

You can bump into a single floaty voxel that renders as your ship is passing (either just in front or even effectively inside it if your ship is larger) and if it's a 1kT beast it will be completely destroyed if travelling at >100kph (28 mps)... that's what all the complaints are about on the forums due to players building single voxel towers to cater to the broken-ass mechanics of AGG ships. Now add to that permanent death AND schematics to rebuild and you end up with complete, undaulterated bullshit.

 

So to cut a long story... well,  not at all.... I am 100% a proponent of rolling back crash damage on impacts until their flight and damage mechanics are CAST IRON level done and tested.


This first bit!!! 100%

Your a man in the know  :)   A while back I totalled my ship 3 times in a row.  Trying to work out how to enter Alioth with a heavy load.  I repaired it the 1st time with T1 scrap (took hours) then I found the wonders of T2 scrap.  Anyway, I got so annoyed I purchased a "repair unit"  As I recall, it was pretty pricey.  When I try to access it I get a message "repair unit not active on this server".  I have asked people in the support channel but nobody seems to know.  Are repair units not implemented yet?  or, is mine just not working for some reason?  and why are they for sale if they are not implemented?

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22 hours ago, BiGEdge said:

Is there only one or the other in your world?
Only this or that? Only Black or White?

I think you missed the main point of the post you replied to. 

 

It was asking the question of players: "Where does your primary enjoyment of the game come from, is it internal or external facing and will DU cater to it in future?"

 

Yes, it is possible for groups to contain both types of individual, and yes, people are complex and varied. 

 

You can disagree with Myers Briggs. 

 

However, it isn't a 'black or white' worldview to point out the distinction that players in this game do generally fit into either introvert or extrovert personality stereotypes, that those stereotypes generally want different things from life, and that it would be helpful to clarify what future each can expect from NQ in DU. 

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22 hours ago, SSampson said:

I am starting to think that I am the only one that care about docking ships. 

no - you are not alone - not sure which I hate most - when I fly away and a nearby ship follows me, when I fly away and the ship I thought was docked stays behind (in some cases causing me to crash as I fly into it instead of it flying away with me) or when ships follow me through docking bay walls, because the walls desynched. That last one really kills the immersion. Oh, I also had a magic carpet in my cargo hold once that fell through my ship's hull :(

 

they really need something like the transponder, where it communicates data between two dynamics (or a dynamic and a space/static) one side asking for permission to dock, and the other granting it / refusing it with in game widgets for this

 

and the same for bay doors

 

I don't know, maybe this is already available if you know the right lua, but I've not seen it so far, and my experience with detection zones is that even the big ones would cause crashes if your crew sit at the back, like in a lot of the AGG ships you see :(

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2 hours ago, michaelk said:

2. NQ's response doesn't change the math, here -- which says that ambitious project + no game dev experience equals a bad time. Are they changing how they approach design changes, or just reacting to criticism? Have they learned...anything?

That is actually an excellent question. I work for a 'cutting edge' company that appears to be spiraling wildly between what the company claims they want, and how they demonstrate it extremely poorly by largely dismissing customers and employees alike. Their excuse is the same 'new company', 'never been done before', 'nothing like it' and such.

 

Even if this were the first game ever created, business fundamentals 101 should logically always prevail. Don't make sudden, unannounced changes in ANYTHING. Make your objectives crystal clear in a report, not one-liners, and never NEVER ignore your customers.

 

I ask two similar questions rephrased: What EXACTLY did NQ learn? What EXACTLY are they going to do to move forward and to avert anything on this scale from ever happening again?

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11 minutes ago, Deintus said:

never NEVER ignore your customers.

NQ doesn't have customers. We're paying a pittance for access, and even the backers weren't that big of a percentage. NQ is only doing this for their investors. We are nothing. NQ has been toying with us from the beginning, and we really should wise up to it and find other games to play.

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19 hours ago, Ligator said:

To get people to fly much (which is what you want in this game) you have to make sure that fuel is quite cheap and that repairs are cheap. 

 

Gravity and ghostvoxels and stuff often destroy ships in this game.

This update was in many cases the cart full of goods, with no carthorse to pull it, which others have commented on. 

 

What really stood out for me though was one thing, Kergon prices, and how many players respond in 'community' games.  

 

The market response to the update making it impossible for many people to craft Kergon on Sanctuary or Alioth was to hike prices up tenfold. 

 

While you could pick T2 ores off the ground and buy kergon schematics in both places, you could not initially buy the schematics to refine T2 ores, they were not seeded on Alioth or Sanctuary. 

 

GG NQ

 

I'm sure there were many examples of friends helping each other out, but if this ruthlessness is anything to go by, NQ had better be prepared for the bloodbath that will ensue when they open up territory warfare. 

 

Before this update I rarely traveled to Alioth districts due to lag. During this update I continue to try to avoid Alioth districts because of the number of AGG towers that often render at the last moment.  

 

There should be a kill count for each AGG tower, a tally of how many passing merchants and consumers each has downed.

 

Forget scan results on the map, AGG towers should be added as known shipping hazards when your path to a destination goes near them. ;)

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

NQ doesn't have customers. We're paying a pittance for access, and even the backers weren't that big of a percentage. NQ is only doing this for their investors. We are nothing. NQ has been toying with us from the beginning, and we really should wise up to it and find other games to play.

It would be interesting to see a full uncensored financial statement for sure.

 

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I don't think you have listened to everyone.

 

I was under the impression this game was a sandbox, but you don't want people to 'lone wolf' in the game, so this means its not really a sandbox. The term 'sandbox' means a player is open to what they want to do without having to conform to some standard type of game play.

 

I have spent the past few months doing my own thing and building my ships and such, but now you introduced a patch that priced everything out of reach for the average player. It boggles my mind how much ore I will need to mine to buy a schematic for the uncommon assembly XL in addition to the schematics for the parts to make this, this is just a tier 2 item I will have to spend a month or so mining ore to be able to make it.

 

My auto renew is stopped, and I would not even be logging in right now if it was not for my friend insisting things will get better, with a month left I honestly see no point in playing this anymore. 

 

The chat UI is clunky and near impossible to use. Yet each month I see the dev's gushing about the latest emote they have added for players, what's the point when you can't even start a simple conversation with someone you meet.

 

There seems to be no way to keep track of schematics you buy or use, and the schematic scavenger hunt to track down the ones you want is no pick nick either that is if you can afford them anyways.

 

Also there is the worry about loosing my ship now if I fly it and it crash's for no reason, so there is no more flying when there are so many ways for bugs to crash your ship still, it really is not worth the risk, especially a ship with parts where you no longer have the means to replace.

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28 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

NQ doesn't have customers. We're paying a pittance for access, and even the backers weren't that big of a percentage. NQ is only doing this for their investors. We are nothing. NQ has been toying with us from the beginning, and we really should wise up to it and find other games to play.

19 minutes ago, Deintus said:

It would be interesting to see a full uncensored financial statement for sure.

 

You can see the investor profile here: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/dual-universe/company_financials 

 

The most recent round of investment came in 2019 for ~$11 million USD. The total raised is about $22 million, but let's focus on that $11 million for now. 

 

Each account pays about between $6.99 and $5.83 a month for access (oh look they added a monthly sub, I thought it was a 3-month min...) 

 

They'd need 100,000 subs to make ~$11mm in revenue in ~15 months (assuming the most expensive monthly sub)...and right now, there's no way they have 100,000 subs.

 

Hell, retaining half that won't be easy IMHO. 

 

Now consider NQ's ~100 staff and considerable server costs -- which they don't operate themselves (freakin' Jeff Bezos seems to profit from anything and everything nowadays). 

 

highly doubt that NQ's investors are happy when they see the subscriber churn rates. The only way this works if is you have a stable and growing base of subscriptions. 

 

The truth is, NQ did a great job pitching this product to everyone -- even investors bought into this concept and believed that retaining 50k-100k+ users would be easy. 

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1 hour ago, Borandazaurus said:

I lost 3,6 Mil talent points... other people have lost none... this does not make up in any way for having my time and my work constantly devalued and thrown into the wind. I don't want 1M talent points. I have been handicaped for a week already...

You aren't alone. I lost ~2 million talent points myself when they did the point reset. At least I get roughly half of it. I feel bad for you....

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Is there another price drop coming for tier one schematics? From what I read "We will modify the formula of the schematic prices to make it considerably more affordable for Tier 1 and still challenging and worth a commitment but less intense for anything Tier 2 or above." I was under the impression tier 1 schematics would drop the same if not more than the high tier schematics. Looks like the teir one dropped by less than 50% and the high tier by more than 600%.(warp drive and screws)

 

Also, I see this patch will make it even easier than .23 made it for pirates in what you call PVP.  You once said "this will be the hardest it ever will be for haulers in pvp as there is no counterplay". But it's been made even easier. And then again even easier. Are you going to try your hand at balancing PVP in the next patch? Or did the plan change, PVP is to be made even easier for pirates moving forward? 

 

Also I believe I got scammed by someone that knew about this update. I bought a lot of schematics from the market at a lower price than the bots were selling them at. I do believe I did not get refunded for that. The scammer got my refund. 

 

Also are you working on returning lost points? I'm just now noticing I'm missing points. I think I was training a 2day train and I had another day or so into a longer 7 day train. 

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4 hours ago, Underhook said:

Your a man in the know  :)   A while back I totalled my ship 3 times in a row.  Trying to work out how to enter Alioth with a heavy load.  I repaired it the 1st time with T1 scrap (took hours) then I found the wonders of T2 scrap.  Anyway, I got so annoyed I purchased a "repair unit"  As I recall, it was pretty pricey.  When I try to access it I get a message "repair unit not active on this server".  I have asked people in the support channel but nobody seems to know.  Are repair units not implemented yet?  or, is mine just not working for some reason?  and why are they for sale if they are not implemented?

LOL You bought one of the most useless items in the game.

 

If your element is damaged slightly it will repair it for sure.....but you need a perfectly new one in a linked container and it will destroy the damaged one, so long as it is yellow regardless of how damaged it is IIRC. It does not actually repair, it replaces.

 

I think it is supposed to take a snapshot of the ship to what it is supposed to restore it to. So it will restore voxels, which is nice but RIP your elements.

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It beggars belief that JC still has bots in the game...

 

bots giving out free money, bots buying ore at a fixed price and bots taking all the quanta back by selling magic potions.
 

This is basically the China factory syndrome: pay your workers then force them to use your restaurants, accommodation and leisure facilities, completely capturing the flow of capital and leaving little “leakage” for third parties.
 

I’m no economist, but this just seems like patent nonsense to me from a gaming (not a hyper-exploitative cotton farm in China) viewpoint. 
 

JC has decried the lack of human interaction. Hell he was even willing to risk losing or at least alienating half his player base to address the issue...
 

and what does he go and do? Basically set up a short circuit between a sweet trifecta of his own bots, effectively cutting human interaction out of the entire transaction from ore to store. 

dig by yourself.  Sell to bots. Get money for existing, the give all that money back to JC... so that you can once again craft your own shit for your own ships.

 

Well played, JC, you could have probably written the background story to Brazil! 

 

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12 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

It beggars belief that JC still has bots in the game...

 

bots giving out free money, bots buying ore at a fixed price and bots taking all the quanta back by selling magic potions.
 

This is basically the China factory syndrome: pay your workers then force them to use your restaurants, accommodation and leisure facilities, completely capturing the flow of capital and leaving little “leakage” for third parties.
 

I’m no economist, but this just seems like patent nonsense to me from a gaming (not a hyper-exploitative cotton farm in China) viewpoint. 
 

JC has decried the lack of human interaction. Hell he was even willing to risk losing or at least alienating half his player base to address the issue...
 

and what does he go and do? Basically set up a short circuit between a sweet trifecta of his own bots, effectively cutting human interaction out of the entire transaction from ore to store. 

dig by yourself.  Sell to bots. Get money for existing, the give all that money back to JC... so that you can once again craft your own shit for your own ships.

 

Well played, JC, you could have probably written the background story to Brazil! 

 

Quoting for truth. Perfect way to describe the existing 'system'...

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4 hours ago, Shulace said:

LOL You bought one of the most useless items in the game.

 

If your element is damaged slightly it will repair it for sure.....but you need a perfectly new one in a linked container and it will destroy the damaged one, so long as it is yellow regardless of how damaged it is IIRC. It does not actually repair, it replaces.

 

I think it is supposed to take a snapshot of the ship to what it is supposed to restore it to. So it will restore voxels, which is nice but RIP your elements.

LOL, thanks.  Well, it does not work anyway.  Currently its a very expensive decorative item   :)

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