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Trade, transparency and trust


Mornington

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Hi, 

 

there's a topic I have strong opinions on, but I'm genuinely curious what other people think and why.  

 

Trade in this game on the markets is anonymous. This is the only MMO, from the many I've played, where this is the case. It has consequences, most of them bad. 

 

While it does mean you can't pirate your buyer, steal goods back and re-sell them (which may be irrelevant now anyway), it also means you can't tell if the people you are buying from are the same people who just stole from you, or people you are currently at war with (when that comes in). 

 

JC claims to be all about the realism, but in what world can buyers not make any choice about who they buy from? This takes a significant choice away from players. 

 

The only choice I can make to e.g. not fund BOO is to not play this game at all. 

 

Anger about the latest update just funding insider info fueled mega-corps would be confirmed or refuted if we had trade transparency. It would also give us a choice about what to do with that anger. 

 

I want economic choice. 

 

The obvious glitch here is alts. IMO that's a cancer in MMOs. 

 

We have means in the real world to protect ourselves from fraud, but nothing exists in DU to enable services like SMTH to actually 'credit check' avatars. 

 

Small orgs are hamstrung with recruitment because it is too easy to create burner alts to infiltrate, gain intel on and attempt to asset strip smaller orgs.

 

All it takes for you to be targeted in deep space by pvp with a hold full of ore is that one guy, who came along mining and wanted a lift back, who's friends with a guy, who can lock on target and head straight for you. 

 

Before anyone says 'you're imagining the problem' consider a conversation I had in forums the other day. 

 

Someone claimed to 'represent the community', despite the fact that the account they posted on was only one day old. 

 

When challenged for trolling, they explained this was an alt account they were posting on because their main account had been banned from posting on forums due to profanity. 

 

I tried to explain that the ban applies to the player, not the account, but that call to logic fell on the deaf ears of "I've paid for it, so I'm entitled to it", to paraphrase. 

 

I understand that dynamic IPs and remote machine access make it impossible to accurately identify where alt accounts are all controlled by one player. 

 

What I really want in this game is to have ways to see info on other avatars that help me make an informed decision about whether that avatar is just a burner alt / puppet account controlled by someone with a very different agenda. 

 

I'm not asking NQ to make spying impossible, that would end the fun for a lot of players. 

 

What I'm asking is that they put something into the game universe that is similar to the kinds of tools employers in the real world can have access to when offering jobs, or that banks can have access to when offering a loan. 

 

JC claims to want to build a community, but how can we do that when we can't even send mail to other players in game, or when avatar names are not linked to forum / discord names? 

 

Call me cynical, but my first thought when JC talked about the mission system was 'how can it work outside the safe zone'? why pay for a delivery when you can just get your mates to gank the courier en route. 

 

 

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Calls for an overal API for not just markets but also player info have been made since alpha started. Only on the recent Discord AMA has JC said that a Market API will possibly be coming.

It will be interesting to see how this will be implemented and I really hope NQ will talk to use before they do and not just doe "something" and implement some half baked version as they have show a pattern of doing.

 

And API can ever only be exposing character data, never any data relating to the account. The character info is pure in game data and not personal, the account data would be.

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8 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Calls for an overal API for not just markets but also player info have been made since alpha started.

 

And API can ever only be exposing character data, never any data relating to the account. The character info is pure in game data and not personal, the account data would be.

 

I guess the easiest thing would be showing account age and Steam like 'hours played', but that could be misleading / open to exploits. 

 

I know it's not an easy fix, but it would be good to know they appreciate there is a problem and want to fix it, rather than head in a bucket time. 

 

Other games I play go to great lengths to prevent burner accounts being used to spam cash for in game money trades. NQ need to be ready for that. 

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5 hours ago, Mornington said:

Hi, 

 

there's a topic I have strong opinions on, but I'm genuinely curious what other people think and why.  

 

Trade in this game on the markets is anonymous. This is the only MMO, from the many I've played, where this is the case. It has consequences, most of them bad. 

 

While it does mean you can't pirate your buyer, steal goods back and re-sell them (which may be irrelevant now anyway), it also means you can't tell if the people you are buying from are the same people who just stole from you, or people you are currently at war with (when that comes in). 

 

JC claims to be all about the realism, but in what world can buyers not make any choice about who they buy from? This takes a significant choice away from players. 

 

The only choice I can make to e.g. not fund BOO is to not play this game at all. 

 

Anger about the latest update just funding insider info fueled mega-corps would be confirmed or refuted if we had trade transparency. It would also give us a choice about what to do with that anger. 

 

I want economic choice. 

 

The obvious glitch here is alts. IMO that's a cancer in MMOs. 

 

We have means in the real world to protect ourselves from fraud, but nothing exists in DU to enable services like SMTH to actually 'credit check' avatars. 

 

Small orgs are hamstrung with recruitment because it is too easy to create burner alts to infiltrate, gain intel on and attempt to asset strip smaller orgs.

 

All it takes for you to be targeted in deep space by pvp with a hold full of ore is that one guy, who came along mining and wanted a lift back, who's friends with a guy, who can lock on target and head straight for you. 

 

Before anyone says 'you're imagining the problem' consider a conversation I had in forums the other day. 

 

Someone claimed to 'represent the community', despite the fact that the account they posted on was only one day old. 

 

When challenged for trolling, they explained this was an alt account they were posting on because their main account had been banned from posting on forums due to profanity. 

 

I tried to explain that the ban applies to the player, not the account, but that call to logic fell on the deaf ears of "I've paid for it, so I'm entitled to it", to paraphrase. 

 

I understand that dynamic IPs and remote machine access make it impossible to accurately identify where alt accounts are all controlled by one player. 

 

What I really want in this game is to have ways to see info on other avatars that help me make an informed decision about whether that avatar is just a burner alt / puppet account controlled by someone with a very different agenda. 

 

I'm not asking NQ to make spying impossible, that would end the fun for a lot of players. 

 

What I'm asking is that they put something into the game universe that is similar to the kinds of tools employers in the real world can have access to when offering jobs, or that banks can have access to when offering a loan. 

 

JC claims to want to build a community, but how can we do that when we can't even send mail to other players in game, or when avatar names are not linked to forum / discord names? 

 

Call me cynical, but my first thought when JC talked about the mission system was 'how can it work outside the safe zone'? why pay for a delivery when you can just get your mates to gank the courier en route. 

 

 

Not to mention (and I'm not saying they do this) , there is no way to know if the orders are bot or player other then the oversized orders. They could easily have bots dabbling all over the market with small orders and no one would know. 

 

The mission system imo will be an utter failure unless the cargo is paid for by the transporter , and if the mission is failed the transporter gets nothing. If the transport is successful then the transporter gets their money held in escrow back and the delivery fee. Without that there is NO way I would ever use a player to transport anything of any value.

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1 hour ago, Xennial said:

The mission system imo will be an utter failure unless the cargo is paid for by the transporter , and if the mission is failed the transporter gets nothing. If the transport is successful then the transporter gets their money held in escrow back and the delivery fee. Without that there is NO way I would ever use a player to transport anything of any value.

It might somewhat work in safe zones as long as there's a way to hold collateral in escrow until the package is safely delivered.
It definitely won't work in PvP zones (if/when PvP is fixed) no matter how it's implemented. Even in EVE, which has a fairly well developed contract system, courier contracts outside of safe space are usually just used as a way to scam newbies.

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3 hours ago, Pathalogical Functor said:

It might somewhat work in safe zones as long as there's a way to hold collateral in escrow until the package is safely delivered.
It definitely won't work in PvP zones (if/when PvP is fixed) no matter how it's implemented. Even in EVE, which has a fairly well developed contract system, courier contracts outside of safe space are usually just used as a way to scam newbies.

Yup agreed the system I suggest could easily be griefed to essentially trick the hauler into a trap , get your stuff back and thus get his deposit money as well as any salvage as you then know his destination. PvP will prevent any trade outside of safe space to be non exploitable.

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