Refining makes ore worthless ??

[Xaosist]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:45 PM, Penwith said:

I play solo, almost 100%, and I am still playing, still building, still traveling to other planets. Unplayable, this is not.

A friend and I started a few days before the patch. - We managed to build a number of industry units and a single XS ship, but not much else in that time before the schematics. It's actually felt like a good goal to get a factory capable of replacing our small ship. - We've ended up buying and selling on the markets a little to progress as well, but the pace of the game doesn't feel bad to us. We should have finished the factory by the time the first components lose their 3rd life on our little ship

[Penwith]

25 minutes ago, Xaosist said:

A friend and I started a few days before the patch. - We managed to build a number of industry units and a single XS ship, but not much else in that time before the schematics. It's actually felt like a good goal to get a factory capable of replacing our small ship. - We've ended up buying and selling on the markets a little to progress as well, but the pace of the game doesn't feel bad to us. We should have finished the factory by the time the first components lose their 3rd life on our little ship

And I think this is one example of why I think this works. The pace is not too rapid nor too slow, just a lot slower than people are used to, but it was broken/poorly implemented earlier.

 

If you can find me in game, which isn't all that hard, I have an industrial park that I am building, with 1 each of the industrial elements for people to rent and use. If you need industry that you don't yet have, I have it ready. I am also acquiring the schematics for t1 and t2 items. So, get with me and we can work something how, until you get your own factory going.

[JayleBreak]

On 12/14/2020 at 10:13 PM, Alpinesun said:

So this is how broken the market is because of bot pricing. I ran a simple numbers scenario last night on coal. Again its artificial bot price is 25q per litre. If you sold 65l you would make 1625q. 65l also makes 45l of Carbon which would cost around 815-825q to buy off the market. So you can quickly double your output on the refined version of the ore quickly and simply! That should absolutely not be the case. A refined product should be source elements + process cost + transport cost + desired margin. 

 

Bots are killing the market full stop.  With them there is no way the market will ever reach player sustained equilibrium with a true supply and demand balance. Its so short sighted and frustrating. Industry is so pointless unless you want to build things for yourself and your wider organisation but even that's been killed by the 0.23 patch. Sigh. 

Once all the cheap Pure Carbon leaves the market the sell offers will ask for more money. This is called inflation. Its good for motivating people to spend/invest money before it loses value.

[Alpinesun]

4 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

...Its good for motivating people to spend/invest money before it loses value.

Actually that's devaluation and one of the major factor that causes inflation along with increased money supply (which is also unnaturally occurring).

 

Quote

Once all the cheap Pure Carbon leaves the market the sell offers will ask for more money...

That's supply and demand and is a natural occurrence in finding the equilibrium within a market and is healthy as long as the market isn't fixed or influenced (which it currently is).

[Deintus]

12 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Once all the cheap Pure Carbon leaves the market the sell offers will ask for more money. This is called inflation. Its good for motivating people to spend/invest money before it loses value.

A small amount of inflation is good. Run-away inflation is not. Inflation can't outpace the basic value of a monetary unit because eventually you can't make money if it costs more than people are willing to spend. A balance with availability, supply, demand... this will always exist in any modern economy. The Netherlands export of Tulip bulbs in 1636 is the earliest greatest example that I know of over an economic collapse.

 

In DU, there is little money, and what money people do have they are holding onto (OK most players anyway). This is a very classic market crash. Generally you have to get people spending again. Zero game and dev confidence also plays a role too remember. Why risk what I could loose tomorrow if they do something similar again?

 

 

[Wildcard64]

I also agree that the bots should just be removed, if they want or need to inject money, up the daily reward and or add a starting bonus for new players. But at this point they were talking about how one could find a niche in the market but I am having a hard time finding that, as I can sell ore to bots for less work then say making a container line or even just a hydraulics line.

 

Since they added schematics to slow down progression but left an open door to fresh money, selling to bots, all I see really happening is removing ore out of the ecosystem by selling to bots. To be a true economy you have to circulate items, goods and labor. If all I am doing is digging ore out of the ground and selling to bots I am not contributing to the growth of the economy.

 

Just saying I believe the bots are killing the economy.

[GraXXoR]

I’ve said it before and will say it again,  the unholy trinity of JC sponsored welfare bots and ore eating bots handing out fairy dust while his third bot consumes this fairy dust in exchange for magic potions is basically just a rehashed Chinese sweatshop.
 

workers work for the Boss for an ostensibly reasonable salary, but also have to live in his accommodations, use his restaurants, bars and health facilities, and purchase his insurance allowing the boss to direct most of the cash flow back towards himself. Very little cash is able to escape the system to benefit the worker and their family. 
 

sound familiar? Get a seemingly free salary from JC, Mine your arse off for JC’s bots. pay him 600M for an AGG potion.