Karellean Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) I am a Genuine Day three player... Part of a modest size gaming community who was scouting this game out ahead of others joining. My findings after 30 minutes with the patch just dropped. --- My Medium Assembly Unit -- Useless -- I now need skillpoints to operate it, which I have already spent.... Am I expected to now wait days until I can use what I had?? --- My 3D printer unit and My Medium Refiner -- I had JUST enough skillpoints to scrape together level 1 and apparently activate these... However I cannot craft anything, as schematics are required now for absolutely everything... just 7 hours ago pre patch... I could craft what I liked... So I look for scematics.... Even something as simple as Pure Aluminum.... gonna set me back 70000.... To buy ALL the schematics I had access to.. looks like millions... I spent my money getting these assembly units... I have nothing other than the starter "Scooty Puff Jnr Ship"... and from what I can see... now have been set on a pathway, of what may of taken a couple of days to get myself established.... looking at weeks ahead, even months... IF this new setup where each and every schematic is going to cost you probably 2 hours to get the cash for a single schematic is going to stay.. its an issue... Getting a schematic for all the resources... let alone all the intermediatery parts, and the final components... thats now weeks of effort I didnt have 7 hours ago... As a day three player... with potentially a group of 15-20 behind me... who play these niche survival games... I am hoping that perhaps... there has been some horrific error in judgement when pricing these schematics.... as well as the talent point expenditure / time it is going to take to be able to even craft medium size stuff.... When my group sees this.. Id doubt very much they will be following in.... I really am hoping there has been an error... or I am missing something.... My group is nearly always up for a grind... but there is a grind... and then there is futility... My midnight maths.. is not liking what I have seen with this patch group... It looks like new players will need to work 10x as hard to get off the ground (literally)... Karellean Edited December 9, 2020 by Karellean Disjointed... Need Cleanup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penwith Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 you receive 100k, per day, in cash. So, you have a steady income, merely by logging on. If you do play with a group, then pool resources, do not duplicate schematics, at least at the start, and work cooperatively, at least with industry. You'll not only be more efficient, but productive. The talent cost for learning the initial tiers for each industry are quite low, actually much lower than I'd expected, especially for L and XL assemblers. This game is meant, by design, to be a long-term game, not something that you reach the end game in a couple of months. Good luck! sHuRuLuNi and Croquantes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordgier Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Penwith said: the end game What is the DU end game? I keep hearing about 'end game' but I've yet to see DU have an end game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellean Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 Efficiency and Pooling is something my group is good at... and we are fine with a long deep grind... This game was already looking slow paced... which I was fine with... -- However these these changes... now glacial pace... Even at 100k a day... I can do Iron for 70k... spend an hour mining and flying to market to make a lousy 30k.... even if Im dedicated... its another three hours to get a second schematic.... great I can do Iron and Aluminum.... Tomorrow I can then make Iron/Aluminimum Alloy..... Perhaps by the end of the week I can make screws ??? Im no rookie kid gamer... I happen to be new to this game sure... And as a seasoned vet gamer... who happens to be new... Im providing immediate feedback.... After the patch I can now do a fraction of what I could do yesterday... thats a pretty hard hit to take... and the pace that I will now be limited to... considering I had an idea it would be a week or two until I could fly something anyway... Crazy slow for new players.... 99% will be bored long before they see content worth sticking around for... JoeKing and michaelk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penwith Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 except the schematic is a 1 time purchase for each. So, you can make a lot more than that. Beyond that, you can mine and sell raw ore, which costs little beyond time, or fuel if you are ranging further out from your base. Did you check out the functionality on your nanopack, btw? While no one really likes going through massive changes, it did need to happen. I'd rather it before pvp is revamped and improved, before territory wars, and before a lot of other content is brought into the game. True, some find the current opportunities boring, but this is beta, and future content is not only promised, but expected. I imagine we will see some of that sooner than we might have, now that this big hurdle has been crossed (although I am sure there will be tweaks here and there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeferret Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 So, I'm not a fan of the new industry changes but unless the bot market prices have shifted drastically as a result of this patch, you shouldn't be getting 30k/hr. More like a couple hundred easy. What/where are you mining? What are your scanner skill ranks? Mining skill ranks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellean Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 Sanctuary.... Starter System I set up as close to market as I could given the amount of territory taken.. to reduce that time to sale.. I figured Id be mining plenty... I was mining pretty much any ore pocket and refining the resources... Storage was becoming an issue... I did ONE full ore run to market with bauxite yielded about 30k... My maths is it took me about 10-15 mins to locate/dig to the ore... another 5-10 to dig it up.. and market and back was about a 20 minute round trip... so it works out to be about 40-50k an hour... My skills are garbage ...I am a day three player... --- Sure you only need to buy the schematics once... but 50 types of rock is 3.5 mill... then a schematic for each step of the build process... adds up to millions and millons very quickly... ill see what happens... before maybe pulling away from the game... I can see that I am clearly in the minority of people that would be hit the hardest... being anyone who started in the last week... who was just getting the hang of things... before having my legs kicked out from under me, with the changes.... Brand new players wouldnt know from here forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordgier Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Karellean said: Sancturary.... Starter System I set up as close to market as I could given the amount of territory taken.. to reduce that time to sale.. I figured Id be mining plenty... I was mining pretty much any ore pocket and refining the resources... Storage was becoming an issue... I did ONE full ore run to market with bauxite yielded about 30k... My maths is it took me about 10-15 mins to locate/dig to the ore... another 5-10 to dig it up.. and market and back was about a 20 minute round trip... so it works out to be about 40-50k an hour... My skills are garbage ...I am a day three player... Don't worry! You have options. For example - You can join a mega org as a mining slave. They will give you a hauler with an L container and point you to a meganode to mine out and some will even pay you for the ore! Oh the fun you'll have... Captain Hills and Lethys 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellean Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mordgier said: Don't worry! You have options. For example - You can join a mega org as a mining slave. They will give you a hauler with an L container and point you to a meganode to mine out and some will even pay you for the ore! Oh the fun you'll have... Just a guess... but its players like you who build ships like icecream trucks most likely... and drive them around the starter areas ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeferret Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Don't refine, you'll get more money with raw ore than refined ore. People with higher skills get more refined material per raw material than you will with no skills so their margins will always be better than yours. Sink points into the linked container range so that you can just link to a medium or large container on your ship and not have to go back to the surface that often. Added bonus is since your inventory is empty you can just suicide back to your rez pad on your ship. Make sure to put lots of airbrakes on your ship so that your landing speed is low and you don't blow up a large container of ore falling out of the sky. Make sure to get your scanner skills up to 3 or preferably 4 along with detector skills, makes everything insanely easier. With more practice you'll find node faster. Most players will dig down in all 3 corners of the hex and take note of at what depth they find things and triangulate the ore deposits. I really hate these changes for a ton of reasons, but one of the main ones is it screws over new players real hard, but 30k/hr is insanely low. What timezone are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordgier Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Karellean said: Just a guess... but its players like you who build ships like icecream trucks most likely... and drive them around the starter areas ??? If the suggestion that I gave you sounds appalling - that's hardly my fault, please understand that that is in fact what the game appears to expect you to do and how some orgs operate. Please be sure to maintain your mining quota to retain access rights in RDMS. Also there is a google docs with the known and claimed nodes. Please ensure you update it as you mine out the nodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kten78th Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 all I'm left with now is mining and it sucks ass as the "PENDING OPERATION" "INTERNAL SERVER ERROR" game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Now you have to live in the game for several months to build the L core. Haha. Good luck with that.... NQ, please bring the industry back to how it was before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penwith Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Or just buy the core from someone else who made the investment, saving you a lot of money by doing so. sHuRuLuNi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, SneakySnake said: Now you have to live in the game for several months to build the L core. Haha. Good luck with that.... NQ, please bring the industry back to how it was before. This shows just how much NQ has underestimated the human mind and what we could do. They wanted a universe based on our interpretation but they still adjust things for people who act like it (like market that could be accessed by in building mode by players) But all those org that have massive amounts of these things also make the universe alive with their buildings and big ships. And now NQ want to step on the brakes because some are going too fast. If NQ had millions of players they wouldnt have to do this, but now they are affraid. But those big org are what makes the DU universe now! I cant imagine the space ports and cities that the players have made would be here if the current update was here from the beginning. There would be no ZA Expo if this wasnt possible.. Also: Prepare for tier 1 to be depleted everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echa Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 The problem with this patch is it indicates that NQ fundamentally misunderstands their own game. They say they want a universe with a civilization created entirely by players. That requires.... players. When I first started playing the game and was still learning everything, I crashed my ship. I crashed many times. If I crashed close to my base, I'd respawn and run to the ship or take my little starter speeder and repair it. If I was far, I'd simply have to run far or get a ride from someone. It was annoying, sure, but my own fault for crashing and a result of the learning curve. The only difficulty I faced was getting scrap (trivial), getting back to my ship (trivial if potentially time-consuming), and repairing (again, trivial though time consuming). I could build all of the elements, voxels, and scrap myself and only needed to build them when I wanted to add to the ship. If I were starting the game now, what would I face? 1. Cannot build my own elements as industry is prohibitively expensive for new players so I'd have to buy both elements and honeycomb. 2. After 3 crashes my engines, adjustors, wings, etc are all broken. Since I can't craft them I have to go buy them again. After 5 the boxes break and again I have to go buy them. After every crash I'd need to buy a new core unit. 3. Since I'd have to buy all of my elements, experimenting with new ship designs becomes extremely difficult and expensive. NQ has effectively just told new players they're going to have to invest months upon months of tedious, endless grinding just to start playing the game as it was intended (and advertised). If I'd just started playing the game now, I'd quit after seeing my elements permanently broken and realizing I need to grind out even more ore to sell just to be able to rebuild my ship. If you're a current player or a member of a giant org you can easily get back to where you were before and continue playing. New players are going to be forced out of the game. A game like this requires a minimum critical mass of players to generate enough content to attract new players. This patch just virtually eliminated the stream of new players. I understand where NQ is coming from and why they made the changes they did. The problem is they did it in the worst possible way. They've mentioned adding multiple tiers/qualities of elements. Why not require schematics for T2+ and make them increasingly expensive as the tier increases? Keep T1 elements as they were; no up-front industry costs, no permanent destruction. New players can experiment with new ship designs and crash/repair endlessly while they learn the game. When they want bigger, better ships then they invest in the more expensive and life-limited higher-tier elements. With the game in its current post-patch state, I don't see it surviving until release. They've made it prohibitively difficult for new players and will likely never reach the critical mass of players necessary for the game to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinesun Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I'm a week in, was loving the game, addicted even. Patch hit, completely paralysed in anything I can do, fun gone, canceled sub. Gutted ? This patch hits the new guys hard, really hard. Other players with tons of money will just buy their way out and carry on playing. New guys are basically gimped and will have to wait days/weeks for just a basic way of getting by. Absolutely zero fun in that. Seriously gutted ? Probably for the best before I lose my wife and kids... Have fun folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHuRuLuNi Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I never produced any elements or parts. Mainly because it's a hassle and unrealistic (I created a few of the machines in the beginning and laughed at how stupidly easy was to create factory-grade machinery by me, one person). So, what I did was: I mined for a few days. It was annoying and tedious, since there is no PVE or quests or exploration (for now), a way to earn money in a more traditional way, ... but anyway: I mined here and there and earned some 180 Million quantas. These I am spending now by going to the market and buying elements I need to build stuff, like the large Starship I am building right now. I don't have much time to play, since I work a lot and am a father of five - but the few hours per day I do enjoy building my Starship. Hopefully, until I am done building, more stuff will come to the game, i.e. more exploration, quests, etc. For those people complaining about the industry: It sounds as if the industry is the only thing you were doing in this game - maybe then, this being an mmoRPG, is not quite the right game for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellean Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 Any game that forces you to spend your first 20 game hours doing exactly the same thing (mining), with little to no speed improvement, infrastructure or anything else other than accumulation of wealth before you can even look at what else the game has to offer... is set to have a new player retention rate of less than 1-2%... Rhianna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penwith Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Karellean said: Any game that forces you to spend your first 20 game hours doing exactly the same thing (mining), with little to no speed improvement, infrastructure or anything else other than accumulation of wealth before you can even look at what else the game has to offer... is set to have a new player retention rate of less than 1-2%... After 5 weeks of daily playing, I've spent less than 10 hours actively mining. I know because I kept track as I was doing it during work (online work is fun work). I made virtually everything I have, with the exception of the first ship (Mule) that I bought and the speeder that was free, and some elevators. Everything else I own came out of my nanopack or off my assemblers, of which I have several (well, dozens). I spent a hell of a lot more hours mining in Eve, during my first week. It's all relative and making such claims as "forces you" is not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottchar Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 The first player experience is a lot worse now after the patch, no doubt about it. I would pay money to see an NQ employee start with a new character, no external help, and stream it. Not looking at other builds and talking about how nice it all is, just getting to work, mining and selling. There is little enough content in the game, taking a big chunk away is a bad idea. New players should at least be able to buy some kinda starter pack with the most common schematics (or better shit, or some containers, you pick) to get them going. @op find me on the official discord and tell me where you are, I can carry you at least a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinesun Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 20 hours ago, Orangeferret said: So, I'm not a fan of the new industry changes but unless the bot market prices have shifted drastically as a result of this patch, you shouldn't be getting 30k/hr. More like a couple hundred easy. What/where are you mining? What are your scanner skill ranks? Mining skill ranks? I've been monitoring ore prices this morning. Hematite on Alioth went from on average 24q per unit to just under 19q in four hours. The market is flooding as everyone is underground grinding to have any hope of pulling themselves out of the industry hole they find themselves in. I expect that price to plummet even further by this evening as more and more ore floods in. Its a basic economic concept based on the Wyckoff methodology that the rich will get richer and the poorer work hard to maintain a basic standard of living. As a poor noobie it's really not fun. JoeKing and Deintus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruslanovych Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 They don't sell recipes on my planet. WHY??? WHY?????!!! I don't understand their logic. Some planetai have recipes, while others don't ... Why release an element destruction update? The game keeps crashing. Gives a light to even streamer computers. Logics? I represent the look of a person who has just entered the game)))) The game is too industry dependent. Everyone is already tired of stupid farming. Now there are three more of it. How do I play solo players? Clans, clans, clans, farm, farm, farm. I work hard enough at my job. I don't need another one) Thank you) I hope someone hears me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinesun Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 6:16 PM, SneakySnake said: Now you have to live in the game for several months to build the L core. Haha. Good luck with that.... NQ, please bring the industry back to how it was before. Oh dear...thats that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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