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NQ - You're doing it wrong.


Mordgier

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1 hour ago, UnclePaulie said:

But I'm the community.  The people I play with are the community.  We all are excited for these changes.   

There seems to be a basic misconception. You and the people you are playing with are not the community. You are part of the community. There (still) are a lot of other players with a different opinion and bad experiences in regard to NQ's "fixes". Get used to it.

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1 hour ago, UnclePaulie said:

But I'm the community.  The people I play with are the community.  We all are excited for these changes.   

Survivorship bias.

 

I see the same thing on the official discord and reddit - the numbers are way down, a lot of the names I'm used to seeing are just gone. The two orgs I played with are dead, 60 players in one and 20 in another - and the discords are silent.

 

But hey the people who are still playing are OK with it...

 

Once again, my biggest issue with the changes is that they are putting up barriers and adding extreme levels of grind without adding any additional content.

 

JC keeps saying that industry isn't for everyone without grasping that the only reason everyone is doing industry is that industry is all there is to do. 

 

Raising the barrier to entry into industry will indeed make fewer people do industry - but there is nothing else to do. So what are they going to do? Same thing I'm doing - playing a different game.

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4 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

JC keeps saying that industry isn't for everyone without grasping that the only reason everyone is doing industry is that industry is all there is to do. 

 

Raising the barrier to entry into industry will indeed make fewer people do industry - but there is nothing else to do. So what are they going to do? Same thing I'm doing - playing a different game.

That's it. Best straight to the point explanation yet.

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I was browsing the YouTube recently and saw an ad for DU pop up. 

 

I wondered about all the people claiming that NQ is so thinly stretched and simply doesn't have the resources to patch their game quickly...

 

I do believe NQ has found success in one avenue: bold advertising that does its job. I doubt they'd still be throwing money into adverts if they didn't convert. 

 

Why should they care if a player plops down $20.00 and never plays after day one because the new player experience is only getting worse...? That's called $20.00 in your pocket. That's a win for NQ as a company, even if it is a failure for NQ as a developer. 

 

Do I really think that NQ is so devious and shady that they're going full-on "No Man's Sky" with their marketing...? Honestly no...but that's the net effect. 

 

I want to keep coming back to see how this game changes, but we've already seen their design philosophy (or lack thereof) multiple times and there's no reason to think it'll improve as the project gets even more complex and convoluted.

 

Unless there's a core change in design leadership, my belief is that NQ (despite genuine intentions) is almost a vaporware company profiting off adverts that fail to depict the game...then take advantage of the subscription model (and Xsolla's shady practices) to deny refunds. That might not be what they set out to do intentionally, but they want to keep the lights on and revenue is revenue. 

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This patch seems to be perfectly in line with most of the others that have come out over the months. Some of the changes are good, or at least expected and understandable, (elements that need to be replaced occasionally, alt f4, & man. tool), however, the problem is that there are some serious bugs that are still in the game that make some of those 'outs' necessary (alt f4) like that bug where an adjuster gets stuck on and sends a ship into a spin, or brakes not working responding. But quit frankly, most of the changes just suck.

 

However, regardless, even with the changes that are good &/or expected, JC just can't seem to resist throwing in a kick to the giblets. The changes to industry will be a deal killer to a lot of people. PvP isn't the reason I played this game. I got into it to build/create things. And part of that was the industries, factories, etc. I don't mind the mining, it's not my fav activity, but it has to be done and I don't mind, although going out to find t4 & t5 now is like finding a virgin in a whorehouse. But the creation of factories, ship design, etc. was what I enjoyed in the game. Now you change it and tell me I have to have schems, and billions of credits on a market that may or may not work. Quit honestly, if I wanted to play Eve, I would renew my sub and play Eve.

 

I don't want to be required to go mine up insane amounts of ore just to turn around and sell it to a bot or someone who will give a 1/10 of value just to turn around and use that money to purchase materials to build buildings or ships. I want to be able to go out, mine, work, design, and create those myself. There are a lot of people out there that detest mining, but enjoy building. They hate building factories, but they enjoy mining or combat/flying. There are players that love to fly but don't like building/designing ships. Let the markets work based on that.

 

/my2cents

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1 hour ago, Memoti said:

 

I don't want to be required to go mine up insane amounts of ore just to turn around and sell it to a bot or someone who will give a 1/10 of value just to turn around and use that money to purchase materials to build buildings or ships. I want to be able to go out, mine, work, design, and create those myself. There are a lot of people out there that detest mining, but enjoy building. They hate building factories, but they enjoy mining or combat/flying. There are players that love to fly but don't like building/designing ships. Let the markets work based on that.

 

/my2cents

So, go find someone who doesn't mind mining and source your ore from them. What is the value of raw ore? Whatever price you can agree on with a buyer. If you think the prices are too low, build with it and create a good that is selling or likely to sell at a greater profit to you.

 

You can still create most everything yourself, it just won't be as quickly done nor as cheaply as it has in the past. Which is not a terrible thing.

 

Ez-mode industry is over. All hail industry as it should be.

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13 minutes ago, Penwith said:

Ez-mode industry is over. All hail industry as it should be.

Please provide a screenshot of your EZ-mode mega factory that you had built up to come to the conclusion that it's ez mode.

 

Oh..

 

  

17 minutes ago, Penwith said:

I am very much looking forward to the industry changes, even with my small factory setup.

 

 

You don't have one - but here you are telling people who DO have mega factories that they were EZ-mode.

 

NQ is hiring. You have a talent for failing to recognize the level of effort required to build in this game, you'll fit right in.

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13 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Please provide a screenshot of your EZ-mode mega factory that you had built up to come to the conclusion that it's ez mode.

 

Oh..

 

  

 

 

You don't have one - but here you are telling people who DO have mega factories that they were EZ-mode.

 

NQ is hiring. You have a talent for failing to recognize the level of effort required to build in this game, you'll fit right in.

You assume too much. If you have a mega-factory, then you have a ready supply of goods to sell to make the cash necessary for schematics, assuming you've spent everything already.

 

If you are a new player, this just slow rolls the game as it was meant to be.

 

Don't come crying. Look forward to the possibilities of the game.

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29 minutes ago, Penwith said:

I am very much looking forward to the industry changes, even with my small factory setup. 

When I think tiny setup I think this: ris8bc1l60q51.png

 

When I think small scale I think this: a6cwgfphvyr51.png

 

Anything large scale, if it truly requires billions to set up, is going to be unobtainable to the vast majority of small orgs so, no, I personally am not looking forward to this.

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12 minutes ago, Penwith said:

Don't come crying. Look forward to the possibilities of the game.

Thing is though, it's always about possibilities. Nothing of that actually reality in DU. And that's the way it is and was for the last 6 years - endless possibilities IF X was implemented and IF Y was done. But none of that exists atm nor will for a very long time. Same with schematics and research gameplay. Endless possibilities. None of it in game 

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At yet you can still address the possibilities from the perspective of what exists, or will as of tomorrow, in the game, and not at some date on the calendar 2023.

 

The game does not become unplayable as of 0.23. Some may adjust their play style (I won't need to), but others might see an opportunity to make money via the market, when they were not already doing so.

 

I am not stating this is the best patch ever in the history of patches, but I am merely choosing to look to the future and not piss in the pool before leaving.

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18 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

Why does JC ask us to "change the way we think about the game" when new changes are introduced? Simple. Because the current state of the game is way too far from what it's supposed to become. That's the long and short of it.

 

There's a 1001 things "wrong" with DU right now, and all of it is due to an overabundance of bugs and a massive lack of features, gameplay, UX and QoL. All of which boils down to a shortage of time and money.

 

In my not-too-humble and probably worthless estimation, if NQ had time and money, they could do great things with DU. By which I mean to say, the problem isn't NQ, I don't think. The problem is time and money. Time and money. Time and money.

 

I could be wrong.

I honestly believe if JC had unlimited money and time, he still wouldn't make a "great" game. It takes experience to design a game. It takes even more experience to design a persistent multiplayer game. 

 

It takes humility to recognize when you're wrong. No amount of time or money will teach humility. 

 

JC wants players to "think differently about the game" -- he doesn't want to understand how his customers play and enjoy the game. Nope, it's somehow our job to change our thinking and play the game in the way he wants. 

 

This won't change in a few months or years after six years of development...the issues with DU aren't just technical or financial but philosophical. We've seen some improvements in how NQ interacts with the community, but ultimately...? NQ somehow thinks the community ought to serve one man's "vision" instead of the other way around. 

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1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

if NQ had time and money, they could do great things with DU. By which I mean to say, the problem isn't NQ, I don't think. The problem is time and money. Time and money. Time and money.

or if they stopped ads saying "come to PVP game" and when you get in it's actually has braindead pvp developers don't care about ?

 

Edit: you still crash if you kill someone in PVP, radar skills work opposite (you lock LONGER if you train them) and list goes on and on.

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7 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

What?!

 

You're telling me that THIS isn't PvP in DU?!!

 

You see, devs fight wrecks in that video. They still didn't figure out that you stop shooting when it becomes square or somethin. Ha, or you don't stop shooting as you crash at that moment anyway..

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8 hours ago, Bobbie said:

Actually I hope NQ takes the servers down for a couple years and uses the money to develop a game. Then if they come back after a couple years, perhaps more than a couple, then maybe they'll have something resembling early access material.

 

I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes, and I'm not dumping on DU or NQ. But the way I see it, DU is just nowhere near ready to be played in the first place. You can't build on quicksand.

 

Why does JC ask us to "change the way we think about the game" when new changes are introduced? Simple. Because the current state of the game is way too far removed from what it's supposed to become. That's the long and short of it.

 

There's a 1001 things "wrong" with DU right now, and all of it is due to an overabundance of bugs and a massive lack of features, gameplay, UX and QoL. All of which boils down to a shortage of time and money.

 

In my not-too-humble and probably worthless estimation, if NQ had time and money, they could do great things with DU. By which I mean to say, the problem isn't NQ, I don't think. The problem is time and money. Time and money. Time and money.

 

I could be wrong.

 

Shut down the servers, and you get both.

 

Game is not ready. Game is not ready. Game is way too far from flippin' ready. For all the impressive technical accomplishments so far (for which big thumbs up), sorry to say NQ but from a customer point of view at this point in time, you've got nothing.

 

I can't complain because I don't have to pay for access yet. It's free to play for me right now, and I barely play. They have my pledge money, and my game time doesn't start until "release", but if I were a paying beta subscriber my sentiment would be pretty much this: Shut down this shit show and come back when there's something worth paying for.

 

What we have now bears little or no resemblance to what DU is supposed to be.

 

Time and money.

 

On that note... this forum is flippin' depressing.

 

Peace.

 

Dude, this sums up nicely why I stopped playing.

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I think the change makes sense for the overall vision, but is just one piece of many which are far down the roadmap, so it's a bit weird adding it in by itself, but DU has always been like that. And whatever happened to energy? I thought that was going to bring more balance to industry. I guess that will come later.

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Such changes do make sense and I think everyone can see that. It does add a lot of gameplay (potentially) at some point. But just not YET. It only decreases gameplay options for now because DU is just not there yet. Smaller orgs and solo players who don't want to bother too much with others are severly hampered because they simply can't build the industry neccessary for their building endeavours.

That means they're bound to use the markets (which is good I guess, tho it's very forced) - which will be empty for some time until ppl actually start to sell stuff. And this also means that they need LOTS of quanta to even buy those elements which they can't produce which means they HAVE TO mine (only source of income) to get quanta.

But this also leads to even more non regenerating ore being deleted from the game. On top of that, many ppl don't rly enjoy mining. To most of them it's simply a thing that has to be done to do other stuff.

 

And before anyone screams "buuuuuut lethys, muh makes mooonies by trading/transport/insert random other stuff": that may be true but that's not what the majority of players will do. The majority will go the mining way - same as in eve. I told all my org mates that it's easy to daytrade in eve and that I can plex all 4 accs with ease that way. Did they try? Nope. They wouldn't bother. Cause Mining is "easier". When I took over a smaller trading hub (dodixie) I found that there were about 30 - 50 ppl trading there bigtime - the rest were just very small fish. Same will happen in DU. Some will trade/haul/do other stuff to generate their income and they will always tell others that they dont have to mine to get money cause for them everything is fine. While the rest of the playerbase has to mine (in their opinion) to get money. And tbh, that's why EVEs economy works. BECAUSE of ppl who mine (and all the bots ofc) - someone has to inject all that money into the markets. 

 

Such massive changes do make sense in an alpha and VERY early on when mechanics are implemented and when ppl have other stuff to do or when ppl CAN actually do something else (like specialize in research) - DU lacks nearly all of those mechanics to make up for it tho. And that's why ppl are complaining too

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13 hours ago, Bobbie said:

but if I were a paying beta subscriber my sentiment would be pretty much this: Shut down this shit show and come back when there's something worth paying for.

 

 

 

 

Well, that doesn't always relate to everyone else Bobbie. I am a beta subscriber, a couple of my new friends playing too, and we would be extremely sad if they 'shut down this shit show' tomorrow.

 

Please let us keep playing. The projects we are working on are fun and to lose all that work now would be horrible.

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15 hours ago, michaelk said:

JC wants players to "think differently about the game" -- he doesn't want to understand how his customers play and enjoy the game. Nope, it's somehow our job to change our thinking and play the game in the way he wants. 

This right here is problem number one. 

 

Telling your customers that they should do what you want. 

 

That is disgusting and disrespectful customer service. 

 

It is also 100% incompatible with the 'emergent' gameplay he claims he wants to see. 

 

Problem number two is they are increasing barriers to entry into a full game experience before they are building enablers that allow people to overcome the barriers. 

 

They need to rebrand this game as DON'T. 

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