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[Discussion] DevBlog: Rebalancing the Universe


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1 hour ago, LocInt said:

Make the game fun again!

 

Mining endlessly and then waiting days or weeks for one component to cook is unacceptable and made me quit recently.

 

Fuel usage is also ridiculous.

 

Components are too big.

 

How to fix these issues:

- Add some kind of mining laser for ships so we can mine veins fast.

- Reduce time to make components.

- Make fuel more affordable, people living on Alioth are spending more ore to fuel than crafting. Fuel should be very easy and cheap to craft, even rocket fuel since we're using 1000x more rocket fuel for one trip.

- Balance components so we don't need so many for one ship. Ships look like pill of elements.

There are other planets  with half the gravity.

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If you make T0 available... Stone, rocks, marble, brick, slate, wood, glass, concrete for almost free to compensate for the insane about of grind you are going to be forcing on people... remember, there are no artifacts, relics or research to pay with when the Org Cartels charge through the roof for everything. You can ONLY earn by mining...

Think you'll make bank by selling ships? Think again, theyll cost millions to make because the org cartels will be the only ones now capable of filling the markets and the chumps will have to mine their arses off for hours just to pay the Org tax...

At the least, if they keep T1 somewhat as it is now: i.e. no stupid blueprints... er.. I mean schematics... Then maybe I'm ok with this... I came into this game for the endless building possibilities... But if I am now forced to "play" ten hours of rock dentist just to pay to make some conglomerate rich, well, that's a bit too close to the real life I'm trying to avoid by playing a computer game in the first place...

A big, massive steaming fly strewn NOPE from me.

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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

 

From what I understand the schematic is consumed so you lose it when you insert a new one.

I think the factory units are just as cheap as they are now so you could put another factory down and load it with a schematic... But they did say factories come with schematic storage....

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10 minutes ago, kulkija said:

So what we are gonna do with this, other than post angry comments here?

 

How about Ingame Demonstration against this.

All streamers invited.

Better yet, how about an out of game demonstration?.. As in, Just don't play or pay if it sucks hard enough...

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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

From what I understand the schematic is consumed so you lose it when you insert a new one.

Do you have source for this.
If that happen in makes this even worse.

No real life examples alply for that.

Modern production machinery operates be using reusable software.

Also if Schematic is the expensive part it makes investment disposable, it really does not happen in real world... can this go any worse...

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2 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

I came into this game for the endless building possibilities... But if I am now forced to "play" ten hours of rock dentist just to pay to make some conglomerate rich, well, that's a bit too close to the real life I'm trying to avoid by playing a computer game in the first place...

A big, massive steaming fly strewn NOPE from me.

TOTALLY!

I fail to see the attraction of hours underground, hunting for T1 ores to do nothing with. Totally sucks ass.

Such a shame - I've LOVED playing this game so far, even with the laborious mining, but will certainly lose the attraction when this patch comes along...   B  O  R  I  N  G.

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2 minutes ago, kulkija said:

Do you have source for this.
If that happen in makes this even worse.

No real life examples alply for that.

Modern production machinery operates be using reusable software.

Also if Schematic is the expensive part it makes investment disposable, it really does not happen in real world... can this go any worse...

It really does seem like they just pulled this out of there arses after a couple of bottles of Chardonnay.... Although, I don't see anything about a consumable schematic.

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The biggest problem I see is that Industry was the _only_ thing _anyone_ could enjoy and get into. 

Building is not for everyone, beyond basic stuff.

 

Now.. there is only mining and/or doing someone else's bidding as the big orgs will start dictating what does or does not go in the game and it will be virtually impossible to get to their level unless... you join up in massive orgs..

 

This pretty much ends the prospect of being a solo player or even a small group unless you are willing to pay through the nose for everything with quanta you can only get by mining. 

 

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So, I quite like this change, but it's absolutely not something that can be injected into the game in the state it is.

There is little enough for players to do in the game at the moment. This will make building constructs significantly harder for people, taking that activity out of reach of many. That leaves us mining, and flying around in space shooting at other ships. With little to no reason to engage in the latter.

If this is something that's going to work, it needs the whole game to be on board.
 

  • Atmospheric combat, not just space
  • Incentive to engage in combat (strategic benefit to holding certain areas such as fighting over resources)
  • Resource sinks such as power to make sure that, once up and running, there's an ongoing cost to running a factory other than feeding it mats.

And most crucially...

  • A full, comprehensive wipe.

Skills, mats, resources, reset the planets, delete all constructs, start all players back at the arkship.

 

Potentially allow people to keep blueprints so that all the design time that's gone into those isn't lost, but that's it.

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18 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

The Q&A session today will get ... interesting...

Tbf if it is like previous Q&A sessions, they'll ignore the actual good questions and just answer the same ones they have answered for the last 6 months. 

 

On topic though, there was clearly not a lot of thought that went into implementing this system. Assuming you need a schematic for every single part, why should I need to buy a schematic from a bot to build basic screws, when I can already do that in my nanopack?

 

In the end, Ill be fine. I already have a massive factory and the backing of BOO. But what about the small groups? The ones who don't have millions or billions of quanta at their disposal. And what of the new players? How are they supposed to get involved in industry? Because its hard to find an org with an industry setup that will just let you hop in considering you lack basically all skills. The new players cant exactly afford to spend a million quanta just to break into industry. NQ has added another quanta sink without a faucet to balance. 

 

As a side note, what happens to Transfer units? Its not like they're different than regular industry units. Will I need to buy a schematic for my Transfer units so that way I can make my industry actually efficient? 

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The changes sound good to me, and I'm a solo player. Not that org vs solo argument stands anyways, groups do more than an individual, that's just the way it is.

 

I've actually thought about reducing my industry anyways because most things I need I can find on the markets now and I use them all the time.

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So this is a terrible solution to a real problem. All it does is put a monetary roadblock in front of monetary income. A better solution would be an exponentially escalating cost to the size of factories that was tied to a character account. So 1 assembler is cheap 5 a bit more expensive 10 is astronomical or something like that. 

This plan was clearly dreamed up by folks that want to create a barrier to entry that they themselves can overcome and will create and protect monopolies. I mean seriously, did anyone at NQ pay attention in Econ 101 ? 

 

This is insanely stupid and will make the existing problem of giga factories worse. in that only a few will have them and dominate the market. 

 

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I think schematics are a terrible solution to the problem stated.  If you want industry to be a bigger investment, make the machines more expensive! Dont insert some inane mechanic that just adds frustration and forces people using industry to go to the market.  The people you want at the market are consumers of what the industrialists produce, not the industrialists themselves.  These schematics carry a whole host of problems and dont really solve the problem stated.  I am not an indsutrualist, I buy from them, perhaps if they were allowed set up markets NQ could see that happening more.  Please revert this change and replace it with more expensive industry units and player markets.

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I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 

Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 

Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 

Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 

 

However...

If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)

 

Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 

 

All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:

Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.

* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 

* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance

* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)

* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources

 

Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.

 

The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 

We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.

We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

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