Jump to content

[Discussion] DevBlog: Rebalancing the Universe


NQ-Naunet
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok, this is a great start, it's a money sink and gates industry. No more solo fuel barons or every one pumping out 200 wc a day. 

 

Only advice I would give.... We need more ways of making instant money. Ie, missions or "community goals". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely pointless patch... adding tedium for the sake of tedium. This won't change anything in the long-run, but it will make life harder (and even more boring) for those who work for a living, the solo player,  those that don't sell finished ships, and those who don't exploit the various bugs in the short run. You already had to spend most the game underground mining to do anything in this game and increasing the cost of one of the very few alternatives (which STILL requires mining a lot to get started) only serves to make this game worse. Those already rich and those that exploit various bugs won't even bat an eye at this unless you make the prices so ludicrous that it exempts solo players and small orgs from taking part in industry at all... and if that's the case you just made the largest portions of a games population in any MMO alienated.

As for the "You would be better off going to the market to buy at minimal cost from specialized producers competing against each other. " bit you have in the blog? You obviously don't realize people are going to add the cost of those schematics and other start-up costs to the product. The economy in this game is shit, yes, with nearly everything being at, or near, production cost on the market right now. The increase in market cost will be a welcome change for those like me who sell product on the market so I don't have to mine... but you're fooling yourself if you think it will be more cost-effective to buy off the market in the near future.

Worse yet is the introduction of the skills... as if industry didn't take to long already! I've got 700+ days qued right now and thats only for the - cost and + product skills for tiers 1-3 to finish off the last two levels to get to level 5!

This is truly frustrating for me... I love this game and it's the only one with the building system currently in existence, but you seemed damned determined to kill off your game with the trajectory that this and previous patches have followed... much less the rumors of future patches. Stop nerfing everything into the ground and fix your bugs! THEN focus on adding content. Nerfing and making things harder like this should be LAST on the agenda, not first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Worth to mention, that to add insult to injury, there was serious leaking from ATV. Pretty accurate info about changes was around for enough time for people to prepare and even futher maximize (already existing) huge advantage.


ATV in current form must be disbanded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Ortath said:

  (1) It is kind of crazy to have some of the talents that apply based on the pilot instead of the put down skills for creators.  

This is absolutely true. The inconsistency with which NQ treats "specializing" and how they forego the low hanging "easy-fix" fruit to this end while spending a lot of time on sometimes reinventing the wheel is an issue.

 

The inter relation of talents is seriously out of alignment and needs to be addressed. I hope they will be able to get this done sooner rather than later

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basic Balancing is the most important right now...
More and more people are leaving the game, because they have everything with little effort within a month.
Thats exactly what i expected with the last Alpha patch when the beta started.
And the whining from many people when making everything harder or nerfing some systems afterwards was another thing that i expected.

What i have learned after all the years, that NQ always tryes to do anything to make DU an emergent system.
A second Life, a virtual identity, where you have to work befor you get something.
Not like in other games where you play for couple weks and you have everything you need.

This is exactly what was needed to make the community bring more people to the game, because you need them to archive something big.
But i agree... not listening and start easy and not sticking to the initial plan would disappoint people.
The initial plan was, that it would take weeks or even month to have a ship and reach other planets.
Now with some issues and even some people who will stop playing because everything will be too hard for them was expected
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will transfer units need recipes?

Will honeycomb bot selling finally be taken out (as they will be the least affected by the recipe cost and even more ore is deleted)

How much more lag will it add?

What about the talents that people may want to redo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I really hope NQ will release this patch in the next few days, and even then it will be too late.

Those who claimed tiles with T4/T5 will now go and collect and refine these as I expect the cost for setting up for this will be very high once this patch goes live.

 

I have no doubt that working with anything other than T1 will get very expensive  very quickly now and the big orgs will en-mass start to mine and stockpile a lot of components and even elements to prevent the cost this will bring post patch. And it will only take a day or two for their massive mega factories to start churning out these parts.

 

Small orgs, solo and new players, as I expected, wil be left with one option which wil be to buy at market for whatever price the big orgs set when they bring these products to  market. I kind of expect NQ will also remove the bots from market now outside of maybe to buy T1 ore.

 

Big orgs having an advantage of a level playing field because there have the numbers is one thing. Them taking advantage of these changes by exploiting their earlier actions like using the oversight by NQ on how their initial implementation would have massive loopholes is another and can't be what NQ wants.

 


NQ said that they do not plan to wipe unless unavoidable. I'd say these changes, while by themselves not actually unreasonable or bad, combined with the mistakes made very early on, constitute unavoidable as by not doing so they will basically hand the game to the big orgs which can't be the intent NQ has..

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other than hoping we get a talent reset, I love these changes. One of my biggest frustration was going to look at the market and trying to find a place for advanced production... and the unrefined ore sold for the most profit.... Why? Because everyone has an entire factory ready to pump stuff out. I agree with increasing the cost of getting a factory going. Please make the markets actually useful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Soo, I need significant capital to buy these 'recipes'.  Ok, how does a new player get quanta ah yes they mine and mine and mine some more.  Well, that's not exactly engaging game play is it?  I guess it could be worse.  NQ could do something monumentally stupid like nerf mining.  Imagine if someone at NQ was off their fckng rocker enough to propose something to make mining even more tedious like perhaps slaughtering the linked container range?  Only a complete imbecile would contemplate that..... right??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Kruzer said:

Soo, I need significant capital to buy these 'recipes'.  Ok, how does a new player get quanta ah yes they mine and mine and mine some more.  Well, that's not exactly engaging game play is it?  I guess it could be worse.  NQ could do something monumentally stupid like nerf mining.  Imagine if someone at NQ was off their fckng rocker enough to propose something to make mining even more tedious like perhaps slaughtering the linked container range?  Only a complete imbecile would contemplate that..... right??

Of course it needs the Mission system, but it was never intended for the final game that a single player or a small group can build anything on theyr own, but have to cooperate with many other players and orgs to archive anything

 

6 minutes ago, Sh4d0ws said:

Other than hoping we get a talent reset, I love these changes. One of my biggest frustration was going to look at the market and trying to find a place for advanced production... and the unrefined ore sold for the most profit.... Why? Because everyone has an entire factory ready to pump stuff out. I agree with increasing the cost of getting a factory going. Please make the markets actually useful.

The markets will be useful as soon as not everyone will be able to build anything on theyr own.
And afaik its planned for later after release, that the players will be able to set up theyr own markets, so the NQ markets are not needed anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Kruzer said:

Soo, I need significant capital to buy these 'recipes'.  Ok, how does a new player get quanta ah yes they mine and mine and mine some more. 

 

It feels like NQ is taking another cue from EVE's playbook with these changes but by trying to implement it forget some very important and critical factors to this whole process.

 

In EVE high tier "schematics" are not sold on the market by NPCs, they are found by explorers throughout New Eden, generally in dangerous and remote areas. Explorers make their living by running data and relic sites and by engaging NPCs which will drop these schematics as well as components used to construct them. Players also engage in Planetary Interaction where more parts are found, created and harvested. These are all sold on the market to industrialists who will use these parts to build, research and invent. None of that exists in DU ..

 

Explorers run relatively cheap ships but their cargo can get _very_ juicy and so they become a target for pirates and hunters who in turn benefit from the loot they get out of these hits. Explorers can generally get back in the saddle very quickly and will take these losses in stride.. All of that is also missing from DU

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Death of the game for individuals/small groups. Markets are totally inviable right now because they're a garbage heap of shitty, ugly and half destroyed ships and stacks of containers. Also, markets are intermittently broken. Remote buying doesn't work all the time for some people, there's a massive arbitrary number in the quantity box for selling items to buy orders. Why force your small group/individual players to deal with what's currently the worst part of the game. Try fixing all the myriad issues with markets before forcing people to markets

 

Might at well say, "Well, this game is really only designed for mega orgs with billions of resources, piss off all you filthy casuals."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

As I mentioned.. these changes by themselves are really not bad at all. But  NQ needs to create the story around them. Just dropping these schematics through NPCs is not how you bring this game and the markets to life as it only plays into the hands of those that "have".

 

I really do not want to keep referring to EVE here, but a new player can learn the basics, buy a ship and get out here and explore within hours, find valuable stuff and sell it. Then get better, buy a bigger ship and find better stuff to sell that (and in the meantime earn his living in the game by plexing). There is non of that progression in DU where you can mine for days and that is about it.

 

I do not see a path towards "earning your game time in game" anytime soon and that is a problem as it mostly invalidates the value and use of DAC

 

And no, "it's beta" does not apply here. For one this is absolutely not something that should happen at beta stage. Changes this massive actually belong in pre-alpha. This game is supposed to release within a year and so be ready for release in at best 8-10 months except for maybe polish and final bug hunting/fixing. As far as I can se, the game will not even be close to ready for that by this time next year. That (again) in itself is fine actually but NQ needs to start realizing this and adjust their roadmap/story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If industry specialization is the end goal, then reset our skills and allow us to respec based on this new rule set.  Time is the most valuable commodity in character development.  I made decisions on which way to specialize my skills based on the rules of the game at the time.  Those rules are changing dramatically and will create an industry system that I no longer want to be a part of.  Therefore, millions of skill points are now lost and effectively will set me back considerably.

NQ, you must deliver more content or your dwindling player base will continue to fall.  I play in an org with a good group of players.  It is that group, not your game, that keeps me logging in.  There are only a few things to do and you just hamstrung one of them with debilitating limitations.  Now, more than ever, you will be forcing people to mine more.  I mine A LOT.  It is not fun.  It is necessary.  

 

The intent of this change may be justified but not without something else to balance it.  All I've been hearing is how to slow down the pace of the game.  Make the game harder.  We never intended on players progressing this fast.  For anyone reading in between the lines, what this means is "We don't have the content to support this game; therefore, we must make existing content harder to consume."
 

This software will soon need to be reclassified as a simulation rather than a game.  Please remember that reality doesn't make a good game.  People take breaks from real life to play games, not to subject themselves to a grind. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is probably one of the worst systems I've ever seen implemented into a game.. Was is designed by a child?

WHY THE HELL are you making Bots the cornerstone of civilization again.. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING you said about a player driven universe.

How about making the schematics researchable with skills then let players sell schematic loaded factories to other players....

NO MORE BOTS, Please... They ruin everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, BiGEdge said:

Of course it needs the Mission system, but it was never intended for the final game that a single player or a small group can build anything on theyr own, but have to cooperate with many other players and orgs to archive anything

 

The markets will be useful as soon as not everyone will be able to build anything on theyr own.
And afaik its planned for later after release, that the players will be able to set up theyr own markets, so the NQ markets are not needed anymore.

Won't players just eschew the Markets and keep everything 'in house' within their org?  Trying to force 'cooperation' with out incentivizing the player won't work.  It would have been far more interesting for industry if they had forced specialization. A better approach would have been limiting what combinations a static core will allow.  For example, placing down a refiner would mean that a, metalworks, assembly line or electronics industry unit would not be allowed.  It would be more realistic as even a Tesla Gigafactory doesn't have raw ore come in the front door.  

 

Forcing a vision in a game by increasing the grind or time sinks at the expense of the fun isn't going to work out well.  I get paid to work. I'm not going to pay to do work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to play elite a lot but the grind for everything got too much. It got to a point where I wasn't having fun I was just grinding just to grind because of the way the mechanics are set up. I bring this up because I fear DU is going the route of tedium.

 

I understand trying to balance things and I will still test this patch and future patches however I do not think the current direction is where the majority of the player base wants it to go. I have ten percent of my organization left playing. Out of that 10 percent left 90 percent are in complete disagreement with this upcoming patch. Patches should be something to be excited about and add content not more tedium, more grinding, and a throttle to fun gameplay. If you wanted to limit creativity to make this game only operable by hard core big groups than I guess that is where this is leading in my mind.

 

I was trying to stay optimistic and was hoping and still am that NQ has some card rolled up their sleeve and have some content to go along with this throttling of fun update but that optimism is starting to look like foolishness. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...