[Discussion] DevBlog: Rebalancing the Universe

[Daphne Jones]

As far as I can tell, the problem with the markets is supply side. When I need something, half the time, it's not available on any market and even if it is, I have to fly to numerous remote markets to find everything I need.

 

How will this address is problem? I think it's pretty clear that it will exacerbate the problem. If stuff is too expensive to make, orgs will make stuff for their own use, but none of it will get to the markets. Assuming I can still afford to make fuel, I guess I'll fly my existing ships until the elements wear out and then quit the game, cause I won't be able to buy replacement parts. But since I'm just barely breaking even against fuel costs now, I don't really expect to be able to afford fuel.

[sysadrift]

7 minutes ago, LocInt said:

We have all the skills for fuel efficiency but it's still not enough. Our VTOL ships use quite a bit of fuel.

Stop using VTOL ships. 

[Jey123456]

I dont mind all that much the whole schematic thing, except one part of it. Its all bots provided, so all it achieve, is move the cost from player product, to magical bot product which id disgusting. 

And offcourse.... the fact that it means well need to wait for yet another server operation whenever we setup industry, item transfer are SLOW. doing it once or twice is all good, but having to do it 300 times in a row 1 unit at a time is soul destroying. 

[DreejL]

When are you going to introduce a Contract or a Mission mecanic ?
We also need cleaner or wider market, with a system to put away annoying things like advertised ship taking the whole landing zone for nothing, or adverts surrouding the elevators.
That would be a positiv factor for people to actually WANT to go to markets..
 

[Ortath]

This is the way I feel about creating ships which I am interested to doing working along with more voxel artistic players:    (1) It is kind of crazy to have some of the talents that apply based on the pilot instead of the put down skills for creators.   For example sustain speed should be only a factor the creator or modifying player can improve.   If two people check the sustain speed at the same time and get radically different values, that is quite confusing.     However it might be too late in the  beta period to change this  unless all  existing ships are given the best sustain speed.   (2)  The plan for ship builds to be marked if anything has ever been damaged to prevent taking a blueprint is going to end up with players quitting the game - A creator or modifier should be able to always take a blueprint if the elements have been repaired and preferably more times that ship elements can be repaired if they are the original creator.   Otherwise we seriously need a sandbox mode. (3) When something needs repair or is blocked etc.  it would be nice to have more blatant indicators of where it is.

 

As far as rewards for players such as existing factories that have already worked hard to build something - That should be respected.  If there are issues for new players, we need to figure out ways to help them.  Our group is not one of the oldest or biggest, but we have been working hard to make progress.  Unless you have been working on this for a while, you shouldn't complain as you probably can't be specific in your suggestion.

[Mjrlun]

5 minutes ago, Morituri said:

Add some Parking Fee for those who trashes their ship next to market. Or do some administrative to permition only for good constructs and ban tons of crapy containers.

I like the idea from the perspective of "yes, people just set up home base at districts and it's really annoying", but I can't really see a way to enforce this without player-driven gameplay (ex: ability to use "police" to tow a construct). As of right now, they'd probably need to just shove a bunch of persistent constructs off the districts (without harming them). Maybe after 7 days of being ontop of a market or district consecutively (maneuvering around within 500m of the market does count, or some radius smaller or larger).
Essentially this could fix an issue where trash collection and RAM usage is at an all time high due to this issue.

[LocInt]

This update will only work if there is a full wipe or else big orgs just buy all recipes and dominate the game while the game gets even harder for small groups or solos who are struggling even now.

[Ater Omen]

Quote

[...] a schematic item that you must load individually into a single Industry Unit (there is now a small schematic bank container integrated).

Which RDMS right will rule the access of this bank? 

[vertex]

I wonder if/when I'll get my skill points back from all the skills I invested in under different pretence. Tho maybe watching my factory becoming a pile of rubbish might just be enough and the last drop for me to drop DU until it's final. I thought beta persistence meant that what we build and learn would mean something - now I feel like I've built the worst gimp character that wasted countless hours running around blindfolded in the dark.

 

On top of it all having to buy schematics multiple times at "substantial cost" feels like a slap in the face. One might assume that connected/linked industry might be able to link to a schematics hub, but narp... need to make that nerf a fatality and rip the backbone out Sub-Zero style.

 

At the same time my AGG carrier gets nerfed and is going to crash down - right on my industry junk pile. At least that makes for a good visual representation of what's happening, I guess.

 

 

This DevBlog kinda sounds like a good bye.

[kulkija]

11 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said:

As far as I can tell, the problem with the markets is supply side. When I need something, half the time, it's not available on any market and even if it is, I have to fly to numerous remote markets to find everything I need.

 

How will this address is problem? I think it's pretty clear that it will exacerbate the problem. If stuff is too expensive to make, orgs will make stuff for their own use, but none of it will get to the markets. Assuming I can still afford to make fuel, I guess I'll fly my existing ships until the elements wear out and then quit the game, cause I won't be able to buy replacement parts. But since I'm just barely breaking even against fuel costs now, I don't really expect to be able to afford fuel.

How true.

Reasons for this changes in blogpost are just out of the reality . Clearly writer or gamedesignes have no glue what really happen ingame. Perhaps they should try to play it a while...

[KrazyMystic]

Please don't do this. It literally sucks.

[blazemonger]

So basically we're getting a copy of how industry works in EVE. To build anything, you need a schematic plus the required materials/components to produce the final outcome.

 

Problem here will be that those who exploited early mis-judgement and loopholes made by NQ will start mass refining T4/T5 if not already done and gain a massive and virtually insurmountable advantage over anyone else.

 

By themselves, these changes are not actually bad, but as I feared and as I did mention in my post on this, the corner NQ painted themselves in regarding a wipe will not cause a culture where those that benefitted form NQ's mistakes will be able to take a massive advantage. In general, these changes in the existing state of the game will lock out anyone but the biggest orgs with stockpiles of (high tier) ore.

 

A wipe is needed and may become unavoidable to not let the game slip into a "have and have not" culture IMO.

[JoeKing]

I'm a pretty new player and spent a few weeks getting to grips with the game and finding my way around.  Its taken a long time and a lot of work to build a ship, lots of money repairing after learning to fly through smashing up on Alioth time and time again, and spent hours looking for T3+ ores, which have been totally unsuccessful. Even after 3+ hours each way flying to other planets to hunt, only to find that theyve been stripped bare.

Im not interested in joining an org, I want to play the game as an individual, but this step seems to make it even more impossible for new players to get to grips with Dual universe, and I honestly think that it will totally ruin the game for players like me.  Ive worked really hard to build a small factory to produce a Territory Scanner with ores that Ive laboriously mined, which has taken weeks.Without the ability to generate decent income you are effectively stuck, unable to be able to move forward.  It not even possible  to mine for decent ore to generate income as its been completely hoovered up everywhere.  Wouldnt it be better to somehow impose a levvy on larger factories to limit their output or profits rather than punishing small fry like me?

I still havent been able to afford a warp drive, and building a factory seemed like the only sustainable way to acheive this - so I hope you put things into place to help newbie players, who, by the time they have learned the game will be doomed to a poor, boring life on Alioth & Sanctuary!  And what happens to all the industrial units Ive slowly purchased that I will now need a huge investment to use? I honestly think that I will lose interest, just at a point where I felt I was getting somewhere....... .   .     .        .           .                   .                                             !

 

[ReidRages]

My Biggest problem with all of this is the lack of no org banks. This should be the number one priority for NQ. Then also recruit a friend. People want to play but also want to get the perks for having them signup. 

[Icaris]

Since there are many MANY changes is coming and if some of the rumors are true and game is taking a more Eve like approach with indy and elements ,etc would you please just reset all the talents we have ( by reset refund them as free points ) so we can customize choose a specialization like you want us to be 

All our character talents developed so far based on how game is working and since there are HUGE changes coming, I am hoping you provide a talent reset / respec like "ALL" other MMOs offering to their players under similar situations.  

[BiGEdge]

Finally thank you NQ...
finally you start to put some love into the balancing to fit the goal you promissed years ago.

Make anything you DU ingame more valuable by putting more time into it.
Defining profession and give em more to DU.
And finally, this patch could help boost the economy in the game.

Please stick to it, to a point ehere there are players not see a reason to be an industrialist, and we can start building emergence and not so that every player does the same.

Good work so far, keep it up NQ

[TheTulucan]

Illogical Wrong decision!

 

Add something new to the game that gives both small and large entrepreneurs a task.

 

What this can be is electricity, both sides have to provide their industry with electricity as far as possible they have it in hand.

 

greeting

[Nilruc]

I think this change is garbage. I really liked that I could jump into this game and do anything, with skills just making my chosen activity more efficient. If I had wanted to deal with schematics and skills to use machines I'd have just stayed playing Eve Online and dealt with their mess of skills. Your industry is already monotonous with an insane number of clicks need to create any part and limited by the number of links you can have. Should have just added higher tiers of machines for the different tiers of parts so the new folks could still easily build basic parts to fuel their creations and have to be more dedicated to build giga factories.

[Darkracer125]

36 minutes ago, Elitez said:

Care to explain whats wrong with the Planets? Planets are awesome!

the dev team has made a diffrent seed.  a new procedural generation of the planets.  

i believe they would be bigger.  but more importantly.  they would be way more beautifull.   (more plants and bla bla )

there were going to be biomes. (instead of the madis flat land for example)  

 

and to be honest some of the planets are just ugly.  

[Centcom]

making it to hard to produce is the same reason i left EVE after 12 years. So after Tier 4-5 become impossible to find you now want to make it really hard to build. im thinking that your shooting yourself in the foot

[BiGEdge]

2 minutes ago, Darkracer125 said:

the dev team has made a diffrent seed.  a new procedural generation of the planets.  

i believe they would be bigger.  but more importantly.  they would be way more beautifull.   (more plants and bla bla )

there were going to be biomes. (instead of the madis flat land for example)  

 

and to be honest some of the planets are just ugly.  

I find it allways fascinating what strange rumoring goes around xD
You never thought this is intentional? 

[blazemonger]

Just now, Centcom said:

making it to hard to produce is the same reason i left EVE after 12 years. So after Tier 4-5 become impossible to find you now want to make it really hard to build. im thinking that your shooting yourself in the foot

T4/T5 is hard to find due to early oversights by NQ and because many tiles with these ores have just been claimed and left for "future use"

[Setzar]

While I do like this idea, it seems like player markets, org wallets, power systems, contract/mission system and player shipyards should have came first.

[Gottchar]

Can there please be some rule to keep on topic in these NQ made posts? (and posts breaking it please be removed?)

Anyway, what happens if I want to change the schematic? Do I need to manually take the old one out and put the new one in? This would mean only dedicated lines make sense. Can the game at least automatically check if I have the recipe for whatever I set the machine to in my inventory and apply it? It already takes hours to make the most simple things because of all the tedium, server lag and lack of QoL features. I totally get what you are trying to to do, but if it means I need to do even more un-fun repetetive tasks that don’t feel like a game, I don’t know how much longer I stay.

 

Do some kinda schematic storage, connect it to the core. Let the game take/put back recipes automatically and you have your desired effect without extra tedium.

[Lukyi1337]

3 minutes ago, kulkija said:

How true.

Reasons for this changes in blogpost are just out of the reality . Clearly writer or gamedesignes have no glue what really happen ingame. Perhaps they should try to play it a while...

I think so too, game designers should have to play the game at least 2 hours at a work day.. 
Also if u change one component in industry it will not fix all the Market issues, 
If u made this schematics buyable from bots, there will be big organisations that can immediantly buy all of them and made there giga factories fit in one or two days..  that isnt a balance  it would end in a heavy unbalance.. then u can imagine under the fictional assumtion, there will be two or three orgs that can achive it... they would maxamise there profits with price agreements and boom u have kartells..

so how a normal group of players can compete with mega concerns ? 

it would be much better to implement the research feature simultaneous with the schematics and make them unbuyable for the beta time, after release u have enough data to introduce the market solution for schematics

i think there are two ways to fix it, let gamedesigners play 2 hours a day the game or hire gametheory, economic experts and mathematitions