DevBlog: The Maneuver Tool and Disconnecting Ships - DUscussion thread

[Fembot68]

4 minutes ago, Umibozu said:

i havent made myself clear, if there is no safe zone and safer way to travel , where i can land and place my industrial base , im not going to move, nor anyone else that doesnt like to pvp.

That is fine,   those people who want the new technology  or to mine the higher ores will have to move out and do something.    In  these types of games its about how many subs they can hold.  More subs = more content and more players in general. 

[Warlander]

Just depends on how they go about letting us go to this new solar system. If you can fly there on your own it might be fine but if you have to take any kind of star gate or some kind of long distant warp-gate to get there and its full pvp then nobody but pvp guilds will be there. After the large orgs finish wholesale strip mining this place and you cant get anything you came for on any of the planets here or progress then again only the large orgs will be able to go there. And if you give them an entire solar system to abuse and wholesale sack dry and prevent anyone from doing anything then eventually those large orgs will merge together so that they do own the new solar system. Once they finish looting all the alien tech take a guess what will happen after that lol. They will take that superior tech then use it on the rest of the people who cant get to new said solar system because not only are there any resources left in this one but no means to fight back against them at that point lol. Sounds super fun.

 

So when they start dumping all those new mats and technology back in this solar system they finish everyone else off because they can then giveth and taketh it away at will along with the whole market credit pool after that and run the whole market as they see fit. Then once they steal all our credits then there is no reason to come back.

 

So when you consider destructive elements on top of that you can only fight back as long as the resources hold out. Sounds like an awesome foolproof plan unless they totally reset the beta when they add all this in. But then again. But that is just delaying the enivitable.

[Fembot68]

If I  understood it correctly  that is kind of what JC wanted.   huge orgs controlling parts of the solar systems.  The destructible elements are a side effect of everyone being able to make everything.    More than the one solar system will be needed.  The game needs to be big enough that not any one org can control it all. 

 

Was just a thought it will  never happen if its not in the Vision 

[Umibozu]

8 hours ago, Fembot68 said:

If I  understood it correctly  that is kind of what JC wanted.   huge orgs controlling parts of the solar systems.  The destructible elements are a side effect of everyone being able to make everything.    More than the one solar system will be needed.  The game needs to be big enough that not any one org can control it all. 

 

Was just a thought it will  never happen if its not in the Vision 

Thats the problem, i have seen in other MMO's what happens when large guilds/orgs control content and deny it for the rest of the community, and it is not a good thing.

As i said average player is not interested in orgs, politics , pvp to that extent , average player spends a bit of his time playing and wants to chill out , try new things , do bit of mining , build something, do bit of exploring maybe a quest or a mission.

In-game politics, large org projects are for diehards who spend 6+ hours a day playing, and those will have an obvious advantage , give them ability to control content and the vast majority of population wont be able to leave safe space.

 

Creators vision and customer expectations have to meet ,  or neither side will benefit. Creator wont have a project to work on and customers wont have a product to enjoy.

 

[Warlander]

In a sandbox game why are they forcing their vision when its supposed to be an organic choice that all players make instead of funneling players into choke points as fodder which will be like shooting fish in a barrel? That is not going to end well when the resources her run out and you cant break into the zone. If they put multi org blockades on these jump gates they will have a solar system exclusively to themselves until we simply just dont have the resources to come through anymore then what happens to 60-75% of the rest of us once all our ships are destroyed and we cant make anymore?

 

Why is the only route for advancement beyond personal advancement? And NO personal industry does not equal Org industry advancement when a single person can get a large cube fully decked out in a month. Why is there no Org only versions with the same mats for things like frigates, frieghters, corvett, and capital ships through orgs now? That stuff shouldnt require alien tech now. We got here on an Arc ship which should in theory be larger than a mothership you would think.

 

There is a difference between vision and execution of that vision and the fundamental impact it will have on the overall community. Not trying to brag here but I have been playing MMOs since UO and likely 125+ MMOs overall including most if not all the best pvp games (besides Eve) and I can tell you that if you give the top orgs the keys to the kingdom they will use it to the fullest extent allowed to shut down and shut out everyone else. Not to mention allowing them to mine, stockpile, hoard, and arm themselves for that time. Its going to be a trainwreck when 25% of the population will ever get to see any of that content and further distance themselves with that tech until NQ gives them another solar system to dominate after they have strip mined that too. Sweeeet, what vision.

[XKentX]

3 hours ago, Umibozu said:

Thats the problem, i have seen in other MMO's what happens when large guilds/orgs control content and deny it for the rest of the community, and it is not a good thing.

As i said average player is not interested in orgs, politics , pvp to that extent , average player spends a bit of his time playing and wants to chill out , try new things , do bit of mining , build something, do bit of exploring maybe a quest or a mission.

In-game politics, large org projects are for diehards who spend 6+ hours a day playing, and those will have an obvious advantage , give them ability to control content and the vast majority of population wont be able to leave safe space.

 

Creators vision and customer expectations have to meet ,  or neither side will benefit. Creator wont have a project to work on and customers wont have a product to enjoy.

 

If all you want is mine some, build some, explore some, quest or mission - do that (once the later is implemented) why do you care about other people fighting each other somewhere ? They fight there for high tech resources and risking high amount of their resources to get it. You can still use your "safe space engine" and mine all you need for it by harvesting rocks on sanct.

 

No you don't need any higher tier items, what's the point of higher tier items if they don't have any challenge to get them ? Imagine that your basic engine is the highest tier and stop caring about others.

 

For those who don't want to cooperate or fight with others, can I ask why are you playing MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game ?

[Umibozu]

1 hour ago, XKentX said:

If all you want is mine some, build some, explore some, quest or mission - do that (once the later is implemented) why do you care about other people fighting each other somewhere ? They fight there for high tech resources and risking high amount of their resources to get it. You can still use your "safe space engine" and mine all you need for it by harvesting rocks on sanct.

 

No you don't need any higher tier items, what's the point of higher tier items if they don't have any challenge to get them ? Imagine that your basic engine is the highest tier and stop caring about others.

 

For those who don't want to cooperate or fight with others, can I ask why are you playing MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game ?

Sandbox massive multiplayer game means i can choose whatever path i want to obtain what i want, im perfectly fine with, that solo path would be much harder but it should never be impossible. If the game by design forces any type or activity/path to be able to participate in content is not sandbox anymore.

[theshockcabletv]

2 hours ago, XKentX said:

If all you want is mine some, build some, explore some, quest or mission - do that (once the later is implemented) why do you care about other people fighting each other somewhere ? They fight there for high tech resources and risking high amount of their resources to get it. You can still use your "safe space engine" and mine all you need for it by harvesting rocks on sanct.

 

No you don't need any higher tier items, what's the point of higher tier items if they don't have any challenge to get them ? Imagine that your basic engine is the highest tier and stop caring about others.

 

For those who don't want to cooperate or fight with others, can I ask why are you playing MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game ?

People play "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER " online games such as this to stimulate and change the economy in a PVE format. Not to be forced into PVP. 

[XKentX]

1 minute ago, Umibozu said:

Sandbox massive multiplayer game means i can choose whatever path i want to obtain what i want, im perfectly fine with, that solo path would be much harder but it should never be impossible. If the game by design forces any type or activity/path to be able to participate in content is not sandbox anymore.

Sandbox - means you kinda do whatever you want and there is no clear path

 

Massive Multiplayer - means game is optimized to be played in large groups of people. (For ex. space engineers is multiplayer but not massive).

 

You don't have a path, so it's a sandbox (you don't have anything to do so it's more just a box without sand atm).

 

If you want to play it solo, you can. You will be in disadvantage, you will be outnumbered and outgunned. Your path, you chose it.

 

Obtaining high tier resources in pvp-only zone that is claimed and actively protected by a 1k-ish alliance? Doable, you have a high total chance of success after 1000 attempts I guess.

The other guy starts digging after logging in. Your choice.

 

I don't play solo(boring) but don't play in big orgs either.

[XKentX]

8 minutes ago, theshockcabletv said:

People play "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER " online games such as this to stimulate and change the economy in a PVE format. Not to be forced into PVP. 

Cool, there will always be a competition on the adjuster M. You need craptons of them. 

 

Edit: and by the way, if you want to have any effect on the economy, I advise you to have clear lines on:

1) Extraction

2) Transportation

3) Production

4) Distribution

 

Only 1 and half of 2 will happen in PVP zones.

If you plan to "stimulate the economy" by digging 4 hours a day and building elements from what you dig - it's like fighting climate change by throwing ice cubes into the ocean.

[theshockcabletv]

16 hours ago, Emptiness said:

You're arguing under a fundamental misunderstanding here. The original post is below, for reference:

NQ - the developers
CM's - The Community Managers appointed by NQ.

 

Nothing to do with players or org leaders.

Your input is invalid.

 

I know what these terms mean.

 

Ergo a "CM" should not have their own board,

 

so they can " give us a feel good feeling that our input is having an impact on game direction." 

 

Everyone should have the opportunity to provide feed back and that feed back should be heard. 

 

Not just CM's appointed by NQ.

 

So again your pointing out what I said when I said, what I said, means you don't understand what I said.

 

Not I .

[XKentX]

1 minute ago, theshockcabletv said:

Your input is invalid.

 

I know what these terms mean.

 

Ergo a "CM" should not have their own board,

 

so they can " give us a feel good feeling that our input is having an impact on game direction." 

 

Everyone should have the opportunity to provide feed back and that feed back should be heard. 

 

Not just CM's appointed by NQ.

 

So again your pointing out what I said when I said, what I said, means you don't understand what I said.

 

Not I .

Yea that CM is like representative democracy but only big orgs participate.

 

Stupid concept imho.

[NQ-Naunet]

On 11/27/2020 at 11:10 PM, XKentX said:

Hello NQ-Naunet.

 

Thank you for providing us with the information ! Much appreciated.

 

Can you please describe what would happen in those scenarios please?:

 

1) Ship X is firing on ship Y from 1 SU range. Ship Y pilot is hit and dies or logs off(or alt-f4 or game crash etc). Ship Y has no other pilots on board. Will ship Y continue to move ? Will it stop once the core is destroyed ?

 

2) Ship X is flying toward a market district and is at 1 SU range from it, market district has N amount of players in it. Pilot flying ship X has game crash or does alt-f4. What will happen? Will the ship continue on like it's trajectory and crash ? (Does ECU has any effect here?)

 

3) Ship X is in space at 30,000km/h. Only 1 player P on it and no other players in 10 SU range. Player P logs off or alt+f4. The ship will freeze(please correct me if I am wrong). What happens if another player approaches the ship while player P is logged off ? Will the ship start moving when another player approached it ? Will it be standing still and instantly gain 30,000 only when player P logs back in ?

 

We've got a Q&A scheduled with JC very soon (that I'll be part of!) - I will bring this set of questions to him. If he can't answer on-air, I will try to at least get his thoughts and bring them back here.  

[XKentX]

23 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:

We've got a Q&A scheduled with JC very soon (that I'll be part of!) - I will bring this set of questions to him. If he can't answer on-air, I will try to at least get his thoughts and bring them back here.  

Thanks !

That would be fantastic.

 

Having like examples of what exactly happens in some scenarios answers a lot of questions as if we even come up with some new question it may already be answered by re-reading example scenario.

 

[Rimezx]

7 hours ago, Umibozu said:

Thats the problem, i have seen in other MMO's what happens when large guilds/orgs control content and deny it for the rest of the community, and it is not a good thing.

As i said average player is not interested in orgs, politics , pvp to that extent , average player spends a bit of his time playing and wants to chill out , try new things , do bit of mining , build something, do bit of exploring maybe a quest or a mission.

In-game politics, large org projects are for diehards who spend 6+ hours a day playing, and those will have an obvious advantage , give them ability to control content and the vast majority of population wont be able to leave safe space.

 

Creators vision and customer expectations have to meet ,  or neither side will benefit. Creator wont have a project to work on and customers wont have a product to enjoy.

 

The main problem right now is that the game basically has no endgame. PVP is meaningless and organizations barely have a reason to exist. What you are suggesting makes no sense. I am asking you the simple question, after you finish building all ships/bases/constructs you want to build at your own pace, then what do you do? Many of those "diehards" you are referring to have already reached that point.

 

Someone who plays and tries more than another person is bound to have an advantage. This is reality. If not then why would they do it in the first place. You cannot restrict other people's progress because it doesn't suit your time schedule. You can still coexist with these people without expecting to be equal to them. You can still chill and do whatever you want at whatever pace you want inside the safe zone. The only thing that would change for you is that you won't have easy access to the top technology. You would have to buy that off those organizations.

 

I play a lot of hours every day and have made a lot of progress but i haven't even joined an organization yet. Why? Because i do not need to. I can do everything on my own and that shouldn't be so. The only thing i would need from an organization right now is information. 

 

The only idea i would agree with would be to keep the current solar system as is and create a new one to apply the changes to, like mentioned on a post above. The resources of the new solar system should be abundant in volume and greater in quality than the current resources. That way less people will cry and organizations get to play their game. Since the resources do not respawn the current planets will eventually dry out and only then it will start becoming a problem for the non pvper. If a moderate resource respawn is added to the original system then it would be perfect. It will be basically be the question, do you want a lot or do you want to grind a little safely.

[XKentX]

7 minutes ago, Rimezx said:

The main problem right now is that the game basically has no endgame. PVP is meaningless and organizations barely have a reason to exist. What you are suggesting makes no sense. I am asking you the simple question, after you finish building all ships/bases/constructs you want to build at your own pace, then what do you do? Many of those "diehards" you are referring to have already reached that point.

 

Someone who plays and tries more than another person is bound to have an advantage. This is reality. If not then why would they do it in the first place. You cannot restrict other people's progress because it doesn't suit your time schedule. You can still coexist with these people without expecting to be equal to them. You can still chill and do whatever you want at whatever pace you want inside the safe zone. The only thing that would change for you is that you won't have easy access to the top technology. You would have to buy that off those organizations.

 

I play a lot of hours every day and have made a lot of progress but i haven't even joined an organization yet. Why? Because i do not need to. I can do everything on my own and that shouldn't be so. The only thing i would need from an organization right now is information. 

 

The only idea i would agree with would be to keep the current solar system as is and create a new one to apply the changes to, like mentioned on a post above. The resources of the new solar system should be abundant in volume and greater in quality than the current resources. That way less people will cry and organizations get to play their game. Since the resources do not respawn the current planets will eventually dry out and only then it will start becoming a problem for the non pvper. If a moderate resource respawn is added to the original system then it would be perfect. It will be basically be the question, do you want a lot or do you want to grind a little safely.

Valid points and great explanation.

I am at the same stage as you, I did join some small orgs tho.

 

Some people got to this point even before us as some don't like all the content.

 

- Mining is all same after you mined your first mega, some people just don't want to come home from work and dig for hours.

- Building is not for everyone (I can't even paint a damn bus to look like a bus) so I don't spend much time on ships as they will be ugly anyway

- Engineering - it's just too easy to build ships, slap 10 L engines 50 wings and it flies.

- Production/Economy, interesting but that's until you reach 10 assemblies running beacons and links that make your PC freeze for 10 seconds (you don't have to mine all the ore yourself, you can buy it so it's not that much content either). Prices always drop, economy is still barebones with bots and every patch can ruin all your plans.

- Exploration - The 4000L wrecks don't sound that appealing given that the process is very tedious.

- PVP - impossible to do alone, boring, broken.

 

Due to those reasons "endgame" is not that far away even for casuals if they don't 100% overplay each and every available activity.

 

We need reasons to do stuff. Goals. Enemies. DRAMA LAMA. I think many people will be happily mining on Alioth when they see that battleship of their org getting bigger and bigger and thinking about capturing <insert planet name> for themselves.

 

[Pleione]

4 hours ago, XKentX said:

For those who don't want to cooperate or fight with others, can I ask why are you playing MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game ?

Can I ask why you assume MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER means PVP?  Lore wise it makes ZERO sense - we just spent ~10,000 years to get to a new solar system and the first and most important thing we do is figure out how to kill each other?

 

Some of us hope for a better, peaceful, future...

[XKentX]

6 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Can I ask why you assume MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER means PVP?  Lore wise it makes ZERO sense - we just spent ~10,000 years to get to a new solar system and the first and most important thing we do is figure out how to kill each other?

 

Some of us hope for a better, peaceful, future...

That's human nature, we are predatory omnivores and are very territorial creatures.

 

In some countries it's legal to shoot a person for entering your property without permission. Why I can't do it in a computer game ?

 

We would kill each other during the trip if not cryo.

[Pleione]

4 minutes ago, XKentX said:

That's human nature, we are predatory omnivores and are very territorial creatures.

 

We would kill each other during the trip if not cryo.

Your nature, not mine.  Not a lot of people, excepting mostly  monotheist.  Kill to defend?  Sure, if absolutely necessary.  Kill for food - that is the nature of life.  Kill for fun?  No, not by a longshot.  Sad to be you.

[Rimezx]

6 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Can I ask why you assume MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER means PVP?  Lore wise it makes ZERO sense - we just spent ~10,000 years to get to a new solar system and the first and most important thing we do is figure out how to kill each other?

 

Some of us hope for a better, peaceful, future...

Well war and peace coexist in the same universe. Politics will be decided by organizations. Maybe the organizations make agreements and deals and keep their promises or they don't all hell breaks loose. That would be fun though, wouldn't it ?

 

Massively multiplayer does not mean pvp yes, but also it does not mean pve. It depends on the game's design philosophy. A balance would be the best.

[OleClammy]

The Maneuver Tool, I dock and undock a lot of ships and getting ships to sit right or in there place can sometime take a few attempts, waiting three minutes would suck.  I think if they could make it that you can move the ship as much as you want in a 50m radius for 3 minutes I would be a lot happier, but that is just my point of view.

 

o7

[Rimezx]

1 minute ago, SSampson said:

The Maneuver Tool, I dock and undock a lot of ships and getting ships to sit right or in there place can sometime take a few attempts, waiting three minutes would suck.  I think if they could make it that you can move the ship as much as you want in a 50m radius for 3 minutes I would be a lot happier, but that is just my point of view.

I think that is what they said. You will be able to move it as many times as you want in those 128*(a change was made) meters.

[XKentX]

39 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Your nature, not mine.  Not a lot of people, excepting mostly  monotheist.  Kill to defend?  Sure, if absolutely necessary.  Kill for food - that is the nature of life.  Kill for fun?  No, not by a longshot.  Sad to be you.

You asked why and how by the lore and I gave you an acceptable explanation. Remember, I was the guy sleeping in the cryo next to you.

 

If you drop your half built speeder on my hex I want to blow you up. I can't on sanct/alioth/tadis/madis, OK. Let me do it on Jago.

 

If I can blow you up "just for fun" and see good a animation of your ship disintegrating I will do it too. I am playing a space ship game here and it has guns!

 

Don't take space-pixels too seriously bro.

[dizzy@dizzyhigh.com]

Just wanted to say thanks for telling me about this before it was time to renew my subscription, you've saved me some money

So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

[CptLoRes]

5 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:

We've got a Q&A scheduled with JC very soon (that I'll be part of!) - I will bring this set of questions to him. If he can't answer on-air, I will try to at least get his thoughts and bring them back here.  

A real Q&A this time I hope, where he also deals with the hard questions. Like realistic expectations for performance in the future, bugs etc.