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DevBlog: Element Destruction - DUscussion thread

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1 hour ago, Moosegun said:

Keep telling yourself that, played since earlier alpha and if I am honest, every crash was partially my fault.

 

Most crashes are player fault. You come in too steep, do not have enough braking capacity  or engines are not able to warm up fast enough to catch and provide propulsion. You leave from one planet with half the gravity of your destination at max mass for the destination.. you are bound to go boom on arrival.

 

I guess proper ship design will become a thing now ;) 

And the changes in TP policy make even more sense now :D

 

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1 minute ago, Brusco said:

First of all: Thanks for breaking the Borg Cube Meta. Thanks a lot. Makes going into PvP zone more likely to me.

In the other hands: You're doing so much on the PVP side of the game...
What about the non-PVP-Players?

What the fuck you talking about? That's all they been doing is the non-pvp side. It's high time they actually rolled out meaningful changes and updates in pvp. And it wont stop here.

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Just now, JohnnyTazer said:

What the fuck you talking about? That's all they been doing is the non-pvp side. It's high time they actually rolled out meaningful changes and updates in pvp. And it wont stop here.

Ì'm asking you to watch your language first.
Then again: There have been major changes to the PVP gameplay within the last few months. Didn't see much on the non-PvP side. K the wrecks and the stuff on the markets. But that's basically it.

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1 hour ago, Merzie said:

I really do like the changes. There's just this matter of PC performance. Right now I can easily land at a quiet market without damage around 4 out of 5 times. Which means every 15-20 market visits I need to replace elements according to the new changes. How come I get damage? Suddenly my pc goes from frames per seconds mode tinto seconds per frame mode. And at less than a predictable 3-4 fps ship handling is *very* hard. 

Some people would say: buy a better computer. Yes, thanks. Please send me the money so I can do so :)
Some people would say: get better at flying. Yes thanks. Please show me how to fly that perfect at less than a frame per second yourself and I might even believe you. I'd also be awed.
And no: it's not bugs that sometimes kill me. And yes, some crashes are completely avoidable.

Things that would help: Less memory usage. Better way to lua-get altitude above ground (max 50m right now). Infinite crash damage repairs on cosmetic items. A way to build frontal crash zones that would protect the rest of the ship completely being destroyed. Etc Etc.

For PvP these changes are really good. But for me personally, the game will become less about enjoyment and more about not going where other people are going. Never going to markets / player gatherings etc. I do not like crashing. Or repairing. This change will make me actively avoid crashing. As in play less.

 

go for good ship with AGG , this will make your life much easier in Dual...
since that, live with the costs.

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In short, I feel this new features are incomplete

 

- We need element and product recycling to deal with almost destroyed elements, and not delete them (full destruction of resources in a world with finite resources, can't go well in the long term)

 

- why can't we sell second hand elements ? It can be good enough for designers, ships galeries/museum, newbies !

 

- We should be able to "Replace" with a downgraded version/tiers/variant of the same element. We always should be able to replace a Giga Super XL Military Engine by a Basic XL Engine.

 

- I can't understand why you removed the core size involved in detection range. It was quite a simple way to implement a first step to furtivity and you could have replaced it by involving cross section in the formula. But now, whatever the shape or your ship, you will be detected only if the hostile radar is small or large. Said differently, a L ship or a XS ship will be detected and locked the same under the radar range. I think it's a downgrade of current mechanisms.

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Do you know how many time in the last two days bugs and glitches have caused people to crash ships ?  I mean a speck of dirt in the sky so small you cant even see it  will completely obliterate a whole ship.    Flying along with noting in view then; a tower loads in 10m ahead of you.   

Thruster locks, brakes not working, and a host of other things that happen.  Which we pay for in scrap now, we should not have to pay more for parts being destroyed after three of these.  If the limit was set to  30 or 40 it would be okay.  

The PVP thing,  yea I see 3 times otherwise you can sit there and repair things over and over never loosing anything. 

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2 minutes ago, Fembot68 said:

Do you know how many time in the last two days bugs and glitches have caused people to crash ships ?  I mean a speck of dirt in the sky so small you cant even see it  will completely obliterate a whole ship.    Flying along with noting in view then; a tower loads in 10m ahead of you.   

Thruster locks, brakes not working, and a host of other things that happen.  Which we pay for in scrap now, we should not have to pay more for parts being destroyed after three of these.  If the limit was set to  30 or 40 it would be okay.  

The PVP thing,  yea I see 3 times otherwise you can sit there and repair things over and over never loosing anything. 

I build almost nothing in the game. I frequent tons of alioth markets, looking for the best prices on items. Sometimes making 2-3 trips in a day (I always forget something) and I've never once crashed. Not a single time. And I'm running a pretty dated computer setup and hardware.  Even when I get a dip in frames, I never crash.  When I do crash going to and from planets its always been my fault for watching one of my other monitors.  You cant base fundamental gameplay on outliers, and the amount of people crashing to "bugs" is so far less than people state it is. 

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Interesting ideas that will probably already be implemented. In this respect, we can only hope that, especially in the event of complete destruction, there will be a planet (not just a moon!) Which - permanently! - will be chosen as a peace area and there will allow players to build freely to their hearts' content, without necessarily having to participate in PvP -To have to involve content or to equip the buildings with defense systems accordingly. There are enough wars in the real world at the moment, so I would be happy if I weren't forced to do acts of war in my free time. I therefore very much hope that Allitoh and the moon will be declared a permanently guaranteed safe zone as an example.

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Sounds like one have to mine even more now, sure it might work for larger org with more combined time. but for the little guy not so much.

 

They also reference "the real world" a few times, well that place sucks for fun and games. Should we also add food and sleep requirements?

 

mindlessly reparing and mining is already a drain, hell most of my ships a smoking because i do not have the resources or time to put in the effort of reparing them.

Perhaps improve the repair gameplay first. for me i put something heavy on my mouse and go away, making the player leave is the first step in losing a player.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

Sounds like one have to mine even more now, sure it might work for larger org with more combined time. but for the little guy not so much.

 

They also reference "the real world" a few times, well that place sucks for fun and games. Should we also add food and sleep requirements?

 

mindlessly reparing and mining is already a drain, hell most of my ships a smoking because i do not have the resources or time to put in the effort of reparing them.

Perhaps improve the repair gameplay first. for me i put something heavy on my mouse and go away, making the player leave is the first step in losing a player.

 

Perhaps you arent meant to fly huge ships as a solo guy, especially so early in joining the game. Repairing xs and s cores are pretty easy.  If you wanna manage the risk of flying bigger constructs, hauling literally thousands of tons of cargo, then you have to accept the consequences that come with that. 

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

How will container destruction work in relation to hubs?

What if the hub is intact but all containers destroyed?

Same as today I think, we can't remove the element or remove links as long as it will result in an overflow of the hub.

 

2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Frankly, if a destroyed container is replaced in a hub configuration, should that not lead to loss of inventory?

If a hub is intact but containers destroyed, should that not mean all inventory is lost?

How I see it is that technically the "destroyed" elements are not destroyed, it is only a state indicating they are "broken and can't be repaired" so we can imagine that the content is intact. If it is the case, I just hope they handled well the transfer of the content and links when replacing a broken container/hub.

 

If not, there are multiple scenarios where destruction of the containers would be problematic for the distribution of the content in the remaining containers:

- when an item is too big : like a Territory Unit on a 5 XS containers hub, does it get lost?

- when the entire content is too big : how to choose which items get lost?

edit: talents bring the same problem, from which player are they applied?

 

At the end, should the content be lost? If the container/hub are technically really destroyed (ie totally disappeared) yes, but apart the previous problem,  we need a way to know an element has been destroyed, hence this mechanism. If it wasn't here, our ships would slowly decompose without knowing what elements are missing, repair unit could be handy there but maybe too hard for new players just starting.

Edited by Ater Omen

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Es sollte daran erinnert werden, dass dualuniverse nicht als reines PvP-Spiel markiert wurde. Vor diesem Hintergrund will ich nicht ins PvP gezwungen werden, sondern, mich den kreativen Möglichkeiten widmen. Ich will Sie gebissen, stirbt in zukünftigen Änderungen, damit es ein großer Pool von Spielern gibt, das kein Interesse an PvP hat.

 

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14 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

Sounds like one have to mine even more now, sure it might work for larger org with more combined time. but for the little guy not so much.

 

They also reference "the real world" a few times, well that place sucks for fun and games. Should we also add food and sleep requirements?

 

mindlessly reparing and mining is already a drain, hell most of my ships a smoking because i do not have the resources or time to put in the effort of reparing them.

Perhaps improve the repair gameplay first. for me i put something heavy on my mouse and go away, making the player leave is the first step in losing a player.

 

The whole 'you have to mine to do anything' line is a complete myth I am afraid, peddled by people who havent worked out how to do anything else.  You can make money / enjoy the game in loads of other ways than mining.  You can make tons of quanta just buying / selling and moving other people products from one market to another...... if you know how.  I know LOADS of player who do not mine at all in DU and never will.

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56 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

Most crashes are player fault. You come in too steep, do not have enough braking capacity  or engines are not able to warm up fast enough to catch and provide propulsion. You leave form one planet with half the gravity of your destination at max mass for the destination.. you are bound to go boom on arrival.

 

I guess proper ship design will become a thing now ;) 

And the changes in TP policy make even more sense now :D

 

Most crashes are technical faults, not player's faults. 

Have fun playing DU alone, because that's where things are heading.

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Perhaps you arent meant to fly huge ships as a solo guy, especially so early in joining the game. Repairing xs and s cores are pretty easy.  If you wanna manage the risk of flying bigger constructs, hauling literally thousands of tons of cargo, then you have to accept the consequences that come with that. 

You assume i flyve M and L core, hmm assumptions makes...

 

please spend more time answering the OP then judging what other players like to do.

1 of the key forces of DU is that it is a sandbox. anything goes. the death of the sandbox is when someone starts to make rules and guide lines

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11 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

You assume i flyve M and L core, hmm assumptions makes...

 

please spend more time answering the OP then judging what other players like to do.

1 of the key forces of DU is that it is a sandbox. anything goes. the death of the sandbox is when someone starts to make rules and guide lines

Then youre just complaining, because it's not hard to repair small ships, and takes hardly any scrap.  No one is forcing anyone, I'm merely stating if you want to fly bigger/faster/heavier ships you need to be prepared for what that entails, and it wont/shouldn't be easy for super new people. And I'll say again, if you are having problems repairing an xs core that's a you problem not a game problem. 

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Then youre just complaining, because it's not hard to repair small ships, and takes hardly any scrap.  No one is forcing anyone, I'm merely stating if you want to fly bigger/faster/heavier ships you need to be prepared for what that entails, and it wont/shouldn't be easy for super new people. And I'll say again, if you are having problems repairing an xs core that's a you problem not a game problem. 

thank you for your opinion we all have one, i look into your input, smell you later

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