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NQ-Naerais

DevBlog: Element Destruction - DUscussion thread

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1 hour ago, NQ-Naerais said:

If you haven't seen the news, you can do so here:  


Does this affect wreaked ships  cause there is loads of times that the server has ate my ship . But this is at the end of the day only a stop gap it will not fix the market. everyone can still make everything. To fix this long term there needs to be some items that cant be made think wreaks call them ancient tech or alien tech or something you could have data cores or something with limited run bp's and only these wreaks have the needed parts. Right now there is nothing for players that don't like to mine or craft to do. No npc to hunt PVP is not the end solution  its a means to a end and thats it. Having a pure pvp centric experience will appeal to a few players but many playes will find it a hassle. It also encurages the worst behavior in a  game. While im not oposed to PVP It need to be for the right reasons.  
 

 

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I did not think DU could get anymore lame or boring.  I was wrong.  Every time I see DevBlog I think maybe this time they add some fun to the game and each time I am wrong.  I will stop being excited now and just assume that DU is what DU is and forget about fun.  I did what you said, I built a ship, I got those resources, I did all the grinding, and none of it was fun.  I was hoping for a little payoff with exploration but the big orgs got it all before I even heard about it.  So much for fun!  Well I gave it a chance, and I gave it my money, and now I am giving up on DU.  I loved the idea of making the things that DU claim, but in practice it does not work.  The LUA is limited and only programmers use it well.  I did exactly as DU suggested, and I tried to build the things they claim I can build, and nope!  Why did you not make the lua work like app inventor 2?  Why are we actually writing code when we have the technology to not have to write code.  Just another way of killing all the fun!  This game is all about massive org play, and massive orgs are run by little dictators, which means regular joes like myself end up going it alone and getting nowhere.  What a stupid concept for a game.  Reminds me of eve online.  LMFAO!  

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2 minutes ago, TheFlyingCat said:

Will the size restriction remain indefinetly? Dont get me wrong i think its a good change for now, but as soon as we have energy management restricting weapons by core size become obsolete as your energy output dictates how many weapons you can add to a craft. So if every size of ship can only use its own size there is no real variation in ship spezialisation. As you cant for instance build small glasscannons or smth like that-

This is common. In eve their is power grid restrictions but also size restrictions. Battleship guns dont fit on frigates. 

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This is stupid. Why focus on making the game harder for players? (Especially those with fewer resources). Why not create an endgame instead, to try and stop people from quitting due to boredom?

Right now, the options are make money, which is only a number getting bigger... or PvP, which has absolutely no benefit, other than maybe making one number go up. With this change, PvP is even less beneficial.

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I hope we'll be seeing a set of skills to train into that extend the lifespan of elements influenced by them, or reduce the impact against repair limits, etc...

 

What I'd love to see with regard to element size limits on the various cores is to have it done via a capacity limit, similar to how chairs currently have a fixed amount of PVP capacity which is taken up by radars and weapons and such. Do the same thing for element limitations. Each core size has a particular element capacity, balanced such that using lots of appropriately sized elements remains possible (perhaps XS cores get unlimited XS elements and so on, or else just number tweaks until it feels right) but using larger elements will quickly consume that capacity. Like, maybe the numbers work out in a way where an XS core could technically accommodate a single Laser L, but it wouldn't then it wouldn't have any remaining capacity for other parts making it functionally pointless. In this scenario it would make sense to have a set of passive skills affecting both the core capacities and the capacity cost of various elements, so perhaps someone who put in the weeks of time necessary for a level 5 skill could squeeze that big gun in there.

 

This would allow clever ship builders or those with higher skill levels to produce more effective ships within the core size. Someone with more experience and a higher level would be able to shove just a little bit more onto the XS core fighter, making it more lethal than someone without those skills can produce. Or engines, or containers, you name it.

 

Further, this whole concept would allow for specialty cores, or even unique cores. That is, cores that you can craft with high level stuff or find out in the world that selectively ignore certain core capacity limitations. Perhaps you find a special rare gem while mining that can be used in the production process of a core that can mount engines one size larger with the same capacity cost, or cores that reduce the mass of anything attached to them, or cores with more health or more repair capacity, etc etc etc. There are more ways to iterate this than I can possible think of here. (even if you don't like my capacity idea, pleeeeease consider specialty cores separately I think they'd be super neat)

 

I really think this would be superior to just setting arbitrary limits based on size alone. Something like this stands only to widen ship building horizons while adding an important set of constraints to the build process. Constraints that don't feel forced upon us but are a natural outgrowth of the building system.

 

Whatever changes are made, the game should (in my opinion) absolutely be avoiding arbitrary rules like the ones being proposed. Certainly there will be places where they're just going to be the only realistic solution, but limiting what goes on core sizes at least can be done far more elegantly than just saying "no big thing on small thing cuz we say so." 

 

Thanks for reading.

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3 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

 

I am naturally for all these changes as it relates to element destruction. When I read about container destruction loosing all of its goods though (in the final instance), I was initially skeptical but I can see that this would add a benefit to PVP gameplay overall.

Definitely a good reason to mount the containers on the outside of the ship and unamored lol.

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I always felt that lock ranges was an important mechanic that just needed balancing, not thrown out the window.  Obviously core size was a terrible metric to determine the lock range, but maybe total construct mass or something?

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I think this is a bad change, unless it's only limited to PVP damage. Sometimes you crash your ship, and more than 50% of the time it's not the fault of the pilot, but the game or network itself.

Not to mention if ore is finite, why would an engine just vanish into the ether? Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so, at least let us find a way to recycle the damn things.

 

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this will be fine IF we can also tear apart the damaged/repaired items and recycle them to create new ones.  obviously only getting back a % of the items used to create it, (and greatly reduced % if its damaged) but recycling needs to be a thing

 

also, what about trading a tokenized ship with repaired elements? can it be tokenized or will that be disabled?

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36 minutes ago, Samlow said:

Ore is already relatively cheap, with only market bots being a sync atm. It hink well be fine on ore for a while.

Market bots need to be completely removed.  We will never have a supply & demand player based economy while they exist.

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3 minutes ago, electronbeam said:

I think this is a bad change, unless it's only limited to PVP damage. Sometimes you crash your ship, and more than 50% of the time it's not the fault of the pilot, but the game or network itself.

Not to mention if ore is finite, why would an engine just vanish into the ether? Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so, at least let us find a way to recycle the damn things.

 

Keep telling yourself that, played since earlier alpha and if I am honest, every crash was partially my fault. 

Loving the changes, stuff is too easy to get, we have too many toys, we need some jeopardy 

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I really do like the changes. There's just this matter of PC performance. Right now I can easily land at a quiet market without damage around 4 out of 5 times. Which means every 15-20 market visits I need to replace elements according to the new changes. How come I get damage? Suddenly my pc goes from frames per seconds mode tinto seconds per frame mode. And at less than a predictable 3-4 fps ship handling is *very* hard. 

Some people would say: buy a better computer. Yes, thanks. Please send me the money so I can do so :)
Some people would say: get better at flying. Yes thanks. Please show me how to fly that perfect at less than a frame per second yourself and I might even believe you. I'd also be awed.
And no: it's not bugs that sometimes kill me. And yes, some crashes are completely avoidable.

Things that would help: Less memory usage. Better way to lua-get altitude above ground (max 50m right now). Infinite crash damage repairs on cosmetic items. A way to build frontal crash zones that would protect the rest of the ship completely being destroyed. Etc Etc.

For PvP these changes are really good. But for me personally, the game will become less about enjoyment and more about not going where other people are going. Never going to markets / player gatherings etc. I do not like crashing. Or repairing. This change will make me actively avoid crashing. As in play less.

 

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20 minutes ago, LouHodo said:

Now the question is when will these go live?

 

Historically, once NQ start to ramp up like this and suddenly find the time to write dev blogs, the patch delivering these is normally around a month away. As there is no more opportunity to do a RC release session I would expect this patch to arrive 17th December which give NQ a week to stabilize it before their Xmas break.

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I crash a lot.  I build my ships with more aesthetic focus than function, and often they handle like crap when loaded.  Crashed again yesterday hovering at about 200 kph and booped a hill.  Exploded half my ship, including my seat, and resurrection pad.    Had to fly back from home with a spare, and start repairing ... again.  This change would really effect me and I have no PVP whatsoever.   If that is the intent, well ok then.  But still, this would be a very big impact for me.  And I'm already SICK of paying through the nose for T3 scrap to fix my ship all the time.  (I did it with T1s, and it took me over 16 hours of repair time actual, hooray audiobooks)

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1 hour ago, NQ-Naerais said:

If you haven't seen the news, you can do so here:  



Discuss below!

After reading the article...
I can't stop thinking... Destruction, just for pseudo-market-economy fuel...
is just Destruction, give us something to hold on as the ORE is just so scarse and there is no other form to fuel the economy
I mean... Salvaging, eventhough would be a lot lower to get resources in return this would mean you didn't lost just for the sake of DESTRUCTION

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You say elements that are destroyed in combat will loose durability, what about a ship that crashes, I see people building giant ships they don't know how to fly and crashing them everywhere. Why wouldn't those elements loose durability as well? This would ensure that expert ship designers are valued in the community.

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I think radar detection and lock time should also depend on the averaged cross section over time with range factored in. e.g.

 

Imagine that each ship within the max range of a radar is given a score based on their cross section, distance, whether they're thrusting (per engine), braking (per brake), or firing guns (per gun).  If the ship score is below the first threshold, they are not visible on radar at all.  If it exceeds that first threshold, then they are detected, and the can be targeted for a lock.  The amount of time a lock takes, depends on how many points below a second higher threshold the ship is, the further below this threshold the longer the lock takes.  Once at, or over this threshold the lock takes a flat amount of time (perhaps based on the size of the radar), being well over the threshold might make the lock take less time (optional).

 

The lock time would be dynamic, as the ship score increases the lock time drops in real-time.  If a ship is being locked, but drops below the first threshold then the lock fails.

 

This would allow some stealth gameplay and would allow for skilled pilots (well timed thrust/braking) and well designed ships (smaller cross-section, fewer engines/brakes etc).

 

Radar quality (via talents) could be introduced to reduce the thresholds, making a radar more effective.

 

Talents or variants of engines/brakes/guns could reduce the score these elements add to the ship score.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Del said:

You say elements that are destroyed in combat will loose durability, what about a ship that crashes, I see people building giant ships they don't know how to fly and crashing them everywhere. Why wouldn't those elements loose durability as well? This would ensure that expert ship designers are valued in the community.

Yup. If you wanna fly your super large cargo ship with only 1 month in the game , low skills, and try to haul thousands of tons of weight, then there is gonna be consequences for crashes.

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First of all: Thanks for breaking the Borg Cube Meta. Thanks a lot. Makes going into PvP zone more likely to me.

And about element destruction: Does that include elements being destroyed in simple crashes?

In the other hands: You're doing so much on the PVP side of the game...
What about the non-PVP-Players?

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