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Market Place death traps


Lokiet

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I don't want to call the bases that are being erected around the market places griefing, but they are dangerous and interfering with flight. Twice in one night, a friend of mine crashed into a station that did not render. It was floating over 300 meters off the ground. I have flown past other structures or ships which just float in the air and make flying tot he market place a real hazard. As ground transportation (hover vehicles) are not exactly useable at speeds over 200, might I suggest the following solutions.

That bases and ships not be allowed to fly/hover over the market place, other than for landing. Within 25-75km of the marketplace,  bases must remain in contact with the ground, and not built upon another core or allowed to float, and especially being made of the thinnest of blocks so not to be easily seen? Dark blocks are not easily noticed during night flying.

In all realistic sense, we do not build skyscrapers around airports as they would interfere with the aircraft landing and taking off. Can we use this common sense practice around the marketplace? 

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This has been an issue for months and NQ seems to not be interested in resolving this. As they have now decided to make the safezone triangle permanent there will not be a way for players to directly deal with these unless NQ bring s in mechanics to do so, which frankly is unlikely to happen as NQ seems to only look for ways to remove items from their "tod do" list by making broad stroke changes to how the game works.

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35 minutes ago, Lokiet said:

I don't want to call the bases that are being erected around the market places griefing, but they are dangerous and interfering with flight. Twice in one night, a friend of mine crashed into a station that did not render. It was floating over 300 meters off the ground. I have flown past other structures or ships which just float in the air and make flying tot he market place a real hazard. As ground transportation (hover vehicles) are not exactly useable at speeds over 200, might I suggest the following solutions.

That bases and ships not be allowed to fly/hover over the market place, other than for landing. Within 25-75km of the marketplace,  bases must remain in contact with the ground, and not built upon another core or allowed to float, and especially being made of the thinnest of blocks so not to be easily seen? Dark blocks are not easily noticed during night flying.

In all realistic sense, we do not build skyscrapers around airports as they would interfere with the aircraft landing and taking off. Can we use this common sense practice around the marketplace? 

 

 

There should not be allowed to build ANYTHING on the market landing pads or even around the market for at least a few kilometers. So much crap is being dumped on the markets again, containers, "gas stations", stupid ships floating ...
You want some gas? Good, then fly over to the dedicated gas station.

 

I don't understand why it is allowed for players to place constructs on the market ... They "moved" the markets to solve the cluttering-cluster-f*ck and it is happening all over again.
Just plain and simple: the markets and the area around them should stay clear of any constructs. And "parking" your ships for days or weeks should also not be allowed. Max parking time = 30 minutes, then, if you don't fly away your ship gets teleported a few kilometers away.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

 

There should not be allowed to build ANYTHING on the market landing pads or even around the market for at least a few kilometers. So much crap is being dumped on the markets again, containers, "gas stations", stupid ships floating ...
You want some gas? Good, then fly over to the dedicated gas station.

 

I don't understand why it is allowed for players to place constructs on the market ... They "moved" the markets to solve the cluttering-cluster-f*ck and it is happening all over again.
Just plain and simple: the markets and the area around them should stay clear of any constructs. And "parking" your ships for days or weeks should also not be allowed. Max parking time = 30 minutes, then, if you don't fly away your ship gets teleported a few kilometers away.


The solution to the container ships which are not flown away would be a timer until the owner is fined after logging out for a day. The fine then begins to double after the 3rd day, and the fine being based upon the size and mass of the ship. 

That being said, my biggest problem is the proximity of floating bases, how they do not render and or are designed to be unseen while flying toward the market. If anything, the closer one comes to the market, the lower everyone's bases should be. Leaving space elevators and floating bases for an exclusion zone. I also think if NQ made a publicly accessible elevator at each market place, or a cargo freight elevator, they would reduce the problem space elevators present by reducing their utility or viability (not looking to do away with them per-say, but they are a navigational problem when not loading around the market place, thus the exclusion zone and not ban).

 

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8 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

There should not be allowed to build ANYTHING on the market landing pads

 

Reasonable solutions which would really not be that hard to implement have been posted here for many, many weeks if not months. some have been lost because NQ decided to archive the aloha forums (yes, that far back) and others have been ignored. Eventually When there is no way around it, NQ will  bring in some elaborate and over the top "solution" which impact everyone. What should have happened is they should have given this some thought when the markets were split form the districts and a system should have been put in place then to resolve this. 

 

Simple solution would be power management > dynamic constructs require to be flown for power to recharge and so it you leave dynamic construct stationary or do not add engines they decay and should do so fairly quickly with the only alternative being docking it to a static construct you own. If maintenance /upkeep would be required for dynamic constructs to remain active and owned a lot of this junk would go away because effort and investment of time to keep these alive is not what many are looking for.

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Reasonable solutions which would really not be that hard to implement have been posted here for many, many weeks if not months. some have been lost because NQ decided to archive the aloha forums (yes, that far back) and others have been ignored. Eventually When there is no way around it, NQ will  bring in some elaborate and over the top "solution" which impact everyone. What should have happened is they should have given this some thought when the markets were split form the districts and a system should have been put in place then to resolve this. 

 

Simple solution would be power management > dynamic constructs require to be flown for power to recharge and so it you leave dynamic construct stationary or do not add engines they decay and should do so fairly quickly with the only alternative being docking it to a static construct you own. If maintenance /upkeep would be required for dynamic constructs to remain active and owned a lot of this junk would go away because effort and investment of time to keep these alive is not what many are looking for.

 

I agree with the idea of there needing to be some type of power requirements for dynamic constructs that have not moved in a period of time or even doesn't have any engines. Maintenance requirements would curb a percentage of the mess for sure.

 

One thing I was wondering, maybe a few stationary billboards that required a type of payment could rotate through advertisements of players at the markets. Maybe too if players had a way to advertise in a clean, unobtrusive way, this would help as well.

 

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3 hours ago, Deintus said:

One thing I was wondering, maybe a few stationary billboards that required a type of payment could rotate through advertisements of players at the markets. 

 

One of those suggestions made months  ago and never acknowledged (and probably never seen) by NQ as they really have never actually engaged with us on this and went on to deconstruct a game mechanic with badly thought through action which had no meaningful impact but disrupting the flow of the game and the districts/markets.

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10 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

One of those suggestions made months  ago and never acknowledged (and probably never seen) by NQ as they really have never actually engaged with us on this and went on to deconstruct a game mechanic with badly thought through action which had no meaningful impact but disrupting the flow of the game and the districts/markets.

That's disheartening to hear, but honestly with what I have seen of the gaming industry in the last 10 years, not that surprising where forums are concerned. Most likely they run on a small crew. If so it will be quite awhile before we see a solution.

 

About the scam gold trade; I did see where someone had created a construct to cover it with the word 'scam' on it. Very imaginative but I doubt that will work either.

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23 hours ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

 

There should not be allowed to build ANYTHING on the market landing pads or even around the market for at least a few kilometers. So much crap is being dumped on the markets again, containers, "gas stations", stupid ships floating ...
You want some gas? Good, then fly over to the dedicated gas station.

 

I don't understand why it is allowed for players to place constructs on the market ... They "moved" the markets to solve the cluttering-cluster-f*ck and it is happening all over again.
Just plain and simple: the markets and the area around them should stay clear of any constructs. And "parking" your ships for days or weeks should also not be allowed. Max parking time = 30 minutes, then, if you don't fly away your ship gets teleported a few kilometers away.

 

 

 

So tell me, if you cannot build anything on the market tiles...

How do you uncompact a ship to get out of the market?
how do you use your blueprint so you can have a ship to get away from the maket?

even if building was not allowed, it would be possible to drop anything with a ship there, or simply land your ship there and make that ship whatever you want (fuel station etc)...

So we don't allow any construct there? which mean you cannot fly there, which mean ... wherever you will land, people will put and drop their own market there!


I agree on the parking side of thing, that's one way it could be dealt with, but people will still find way to abuse that system, because players always find ways to abuse the system!

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2 hours ago, Deintus said:

That's disheartening to hear, but honestly with what I have seen of the gaming industry in the last 10 years, not that surprising where forums are concerned. Most likely they run on a small crew. If so it will be quite awhile before we see a solution.

Here's another suggestion from me regarding the markets situation from three weeks ago on a topic based on the really terrible "solution" NQ though up around market performance.. Not a beep from NQ on this either.. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, UbioZur said:

So tell me, if you cannot build anything on the market tiles...

How do you uncompact a ship to get out of the market?
how do you use your blueprint so you can have a ship to get away from the maket?

even if building was not allowed, it would be possible to drop anything with a ship there, or simply land your ship there and make that ship whatever you want (fuel station etc)...

So we don't allow any construct there? which mean you cannot fly there, which mean ... wherever you will land, people will put and drop their own market there!


I agree on the parking side of thing, that's one way it could be dealt with, but people will still find way to abuse that system, because players always find ways to abuse the system!

1) Add a setting "allow parking fees" checkbox to character screen.

2) If you check it - once your construct enters market, after 30min your account balance is subtracted X*(core size)*minutes. If your account reaches 0 your construct is teleported to junkyard at the ass of the world so you waste crapton of time getting it back.

3) If you don't set the checkbox - you can't enter anywhere near public areas the same as "no fly zone" but says "cannot enter parking area without parking fees allowance"

4) Profit.

 

Edit: for noob friendliness except new characters from parking fees for 3 days or something after spawning first core + make a tutorial for it, all the tools are already there.

 

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Personally, I think it's a bit humorous even if also a bit sad. 

 

Like...these are really, really basic things that NQ simply didn't think about for the last 6 years?

 

I've said it many times before, but game design as a discipline isn't as easy as engineers like to think, and DU wasn't designed by an experienced design team. It was designed by JC, who doesn't have experience in either game dev or game design...he's an academic with little experience in the private sector in general.

 

Players can see this fact in every feature of the game today. I think DU is an excellent case study for why game design is even more important than pure tech. 

 

I think it is mean to say DU is "just a tech demo"....but it feels that way because it wasn't led by the game's design, but by the tech. This is the type of product you get when you build things to make them work instead of building them because they fit into a carefully balanced design.

 

They were so concerned with making stuff work, they never seemed to stop to wonder how things should work. 

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I have to commit to this thread.
It isn't just the market place.
I don't feel that there's anything wrong with space elevators because they have a column but these floating, tiny, black platforms..
one user called them `death-twigs`

I first crashed into one and died, it's 4500m above sanc10, 10km out.
it cannot be seen by radar and most of the time cannot be seen during flight.
(unless you use the fixed camera angle and happen to be focusing)

these things are common and will become an even greater hazard over time.
I wonder how many deaths it's going to take for something to be done.
Eventually an NQ staff member-player will suffer the misfortune.
I'd rather something was done sooner.

I don't seek to belittle any of the comments on this thread, the solution for what i've written here might well be connected to the solution for the above.
 

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14 hours ago, Talonclaw said:

I have to commit to this thread.
It isn't just the market place.
I don't feel that there's anything wrong with space elevators because they have a column but these floating, tiny, black platforms..
one user called them `death-twigs`

I first crashed into one and died, it's 4500m above sanc10, 10km out.
it cannot be seen by radar and most of the time cannot be seen during flight.
(unless you use the fixed camera angle and happen to be focusing)

these things are common and will become an even greater hazard over time.
I wonder how many deaths it's going to take for something to be done.
Eventually an NQ staff member-player will suffer the misfortune.
I'd rather something was done sooner.

I don't seek to belittle any of the comments on this thread, the solution for what i've written here might well be connected to the solution for the above.
 

Once again I have to point out the safe zone is to be safe from CvC and AvA combat, not safe from any thing that makes you a ickle bit sad. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 10:15 AM, Rheuschek said:

After 24 hours, player constructs at the marketplace should be considered abandoned and subject to salvaging.

Boy do I feel stupid, I just read this right at the login screen,  7 down from the COMING SOON section:

 

"Reduction of unnecessary clutter thanks to a system automatically dealing with abandoned constructs, which can then be scavenged by players"

 

Am I reading too much into it? Or does this seem to imply after a period of time they will be considered abandon and open game for  anyone to disassemble and take? Depending on how it's done, it seems it may be too easy to circumvent if simply jumping in and moving it resets the timer, however it's not really specific on details. Like if it will include marketplaces.

 

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26 minutes ago, Deintus said:

a system automatically dealing with abandoned constructs, which can then be scavenged by players

The thing is though that player abandoned constructs (r-click -> abandon option) can already be scavenged by players.

So I'm not sure what that's referring to. Bad wording?

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On 11/16/2020 at 10:50 PM, XKentX said:

1) Add a setting "allow parking fees" checkbox to character screen.

2) If you check it - once your construct enters market, after 30min your account balance is subtracted X*(core size)*minutes. If your account reaches 0 your construct is teleported to junkyard at the ass of the world so you waste crapton of time getting it back.

3) If you don't set the checkbox - you can't enter anywhere near public areas the same as "no fly zone" but says "cannot enter parking area without parking fees allowance"

4) Profit.

 

Edit: for noob friendliness except new characters from parking fees for 3 days or something after spawning first core + make a tutorial for it, all the tools are already there.

 

That parking fees is to bring a construct to the area, not to build one, 
So it doesn't fix the uncompacting of a ship, or building of a blueprint. 
The first one being important to be able to move in a planet after the shuttle (especially with the new markets on Alioth not having any transportation to)
The second one is important to be able to do the main tutorial! and go to a hex on sanctuary to claim it!

Removing a restriction on a newbie will lead newbie to not understand what is going on after a while! They could do it in the tutorial, why can't they do it now! Must be a bug!
How many player are asking where is there ship now that the server compact the ship if it stays in the market area?! 

Also that no fly zone, keep exploding me for many days! because there are ZERO indication of it being there! it's not a good design, so a similar system for parking will also be terrible!
How many players are asking why they can't put something that they have in their inventory? (Because they don't know how to switch between active inventory and how to check what is their active inventory!), It will be the same with a checkbox on character screen! people won't see it, they don't even see the list of keyboard shortcut on their screen!

Also, define parking? is it being in the area? is it not being in the seat? is it not moving? is it landed on the platform?

I do think a parking fee is the way to go, and not a limitation to building! I believe it is a similar way that star citizen does, after a certain time, the ship is moved to storage.

But even with this, it need to be well balanced, because with the amount of bugs with market system, you may need more than 30 minutes in there! and anything too long, and it's an easy exploit for people to make things there!

Also teleporting a player ship extremly far just for the pleasure to make it a pain for that player to get it back, may sound like a good idea for you to make they pay back their attitudes (that are not against the pitch of the game!), but it is an extremely bad design for player retention and experience, which they already have a lot of those to deal with, and it's not a good long term business decision!
deconstructing the ship into a storage box (including the blueprint or not depending how mean they want to be), and having a dispenser to give us those items back (for a fee why not) could work! but then we have a inventory space problem for the bigger ships!

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On 11/17/2020 at 1:38 AM, Talonclaw said:

I have to commit to this thread.
It isn't just the market place.
I don't feel that there's anything wrong with space elevators because they have a column but these floating, tiny, black platforms..
one user called them `death-twigs`

I first crashed into one and died, it's 4500m above sanc10, 10km out.
it cannot be seen by radar and most of the time cannot be seen during flight.
(unless you use the fixed camera angle and happen to be focusing)

these things are common and will become an even greater hazard over time.
I wonder how many deaths it's going to take for something to be done.
Eventually an NQ staff member-player will suffer the misfortune.
I'd rather something was done sooner.

I don't seek to belittle any of the comments on this thread, the solution for what i've written here might well be connected to the solution for the above.
 

You could try to report them to NQ as breaching the griefing rules!

 

Quote

Environmental Walls/Creations: Use of the environmental and voxel tools allows the manipulation of terrain on owned and unowned tiles. You may build walls or other structures up to the allowed height, however, said constructions must not: 

  • Block access to market places or tutorials
  • Must abide by our Community Standards (phallic/sexual, political, religious or otherwise offensive shapes are not permitted)
  • Must not be placed with the intention of interfering with neighboring players. When players can not agree, the final decision on what is and is not acceptable is decided on a case-by-case basis by Novaquark staff.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/20949-clarification-regarding-bug-exploits-griefing/
Of course the allowed height is not defined and could be considered that it is the height until which you cannot place a construct anymore!
And the player can always says that is was not their intentions of interfering or that you may not be a neighboring player!

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8 hours ago, general_beanflicker said:

a 2 hour parking on the pads after that constructs are compacted and returned to the owners inventory

You do realize how easily that could be exploited? Build a handy warp shuttle ship. Blueprint, start stamping them out and parking them on markets. Get supply of insta-ships for easy deploying.

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16 hours ago, general_beanflicker said:

no building above 1500m high that way people can still keep their AGG landing pads but it would keep the sky clear for flying and a 2 hour parking on the pads after that constructs are compacted and returned to the owners inventory that would keep the pads cleart of all the crap

Space capable ships and ships with cargo cannot be compacted. To avoid any exploit like Emptiness is saying. 
So auto compacting of all ships is not possible, autocompacting of ships that are compact-capable is already done by the server. 
But it usually mean atmospheric personal flyers.

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