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Permanent Bubble? They nuts?


EntropicDuck

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I'm gonna throw out my .02 USD.

 

If you want a more polished PvP-centric gaming experience right now, go play Eve or Elite Dangerous. PvP isn't ready in DU.

 

STOP complaining about "carebears." Seriously. NQ wants a player driven economy, and those "carebears" will be supporting it and the war efforts so that PvPer's can kill each other. It's exactly what happens in Eve, even though there are those who would destroy all PvEer's for the sake of it (and destroy the economy along with them too, though they'll never admit it).

 

Just deal with it for now. I imagine that once there is more game content (meaning missions and other reasons to leave the "bubble") you'll get your PvP. I don't understand why some "PvPer's" want to target barely armed noobs and call it PvP. I just don't get it. But until then, deal with the fact that it's an unfinished and unoptimized game, barely out of Alpha, that's concentrating on basic building.

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16 hours ago, Anopheles said:

I think this is meant to be the 'difficult early period' in DU civilisation building.

 

The periods/eons of Dual Universe will look something like this, or at least NQ should expect this.

 

Eon 1: Wild West.  No law anywhere, micropolities with no real power,   no one is safe anywhere. Claims are staked.

 

Eon 2: Madmax era - few remaining mega tribes fight for resources while lone wolfs hunt for lone prey. 90% of population has already been killed off.

Eon 3: Black hole of no money swallowed DU universe.

I made small change to make it more realistic without safe zone :) 

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1 minute ago, NoRezervationz said:

I'm gonna throw out my .02 USD.

 

If you want a more polished PvP-centric gaming experience right now, go play Eve or Elite Dangerous. PvP isn't ready in DU.

 

STOP complaining about "carebears." Seriously. NQ wants a player driven economy, and those "carebears" will be supporting it and the war efforts so that PvPer's can kill each other. It's exactly what happens in Eve, even though there are those who would destroy all PvEer's for the sake of it (and destroy the economy along with them too, though they'll never admit it).

 

Just deal with it for now. I imagine that once there is more game content (meaning missions and other reasons to leave the "bubble") you'll get your PvP. I don't understand why some "PvPer's" want to target barely armed noobs and call it PvP. I just don't get it. But until then, deal with the fact that it's an unfinished and unoptimized game, barely out of Alpha, that's concentrating on basic building.

I get what youre saying, but also keep in mind in eve, any ship undocked ANYWHERE can be attacked.  So even the carebears are vulnerable 100% of the time when not docked.  In DU they will have 100% safe zones, where they cant even be ganked.  

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Apparently being able to craft dozens of ships everyday is completely fine but losing one of them is total annihilation and will cause people to quit DU the same day. Why do carebears even bring up risk when they do nothing but freely stockpile resources they won't use, making mining less and less profitable?

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38 minutes ago, dumpeet said:

Apparently being able to craft dozens of ships everyday is completely fine but losing one of them is total annihilation and will cause people to quit DU the same day. Why do carebears even bring up risk when they do nothing but freely stockpile resources they won't use, making mining less and less profitable?

This is typical overreaction post to try and support your argument. Why do people revert to this tactic? Noobs need a safe zone to learn. 

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4 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

This is typical overreaction post to try and support your argument. Why do people revert to this tactic? Noobs need a safe zone to learn. 

This is an equally dumb argument.  All the hardcore pvpers I know have no problem with safe zone.  But we dont want the safe zone to be the majority of the game world as it is now. But as stated by NQ they are waiting for the territory warfare patch which is ok and understandable.  We got a solid 12 months to go for that is my guess. 

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The safe zones are to protect those who choose to play the game as builders and designers to be able to do so without the risk of some rogue pirate come and pewpew their constructions.

 

The compare with EVE really does not apply here as in EVE you do not build anything really and industry is entirely safe from PVP and untouchable, as is PI. You do not design your own ships and you do not spend hours if not days building them yourself and the same goes for your bases. So I get the argument and frankly, it's sensible.

 

At the same time though, I think NQ should be able to come up with better ways to provide enough insurance, given you put in the effort, that your constructs are safe. That has always been their position up  until recently and to me made perfect sense in the way DU is designed. That they changed their positions now means they either were addressed directly by big organizations, some of which have been openly vocal about their desire to see NQ change their plans on this, and/or their fear of losing revenue by players leaving due to this. It is short term thinking by a company which is putting revenue before their game design plans IMO.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said:

I get what youre saying, but also keep in mind in eve, any ship undocked ANYWHERE can be attacked.  So even the carebears are vulnerable 100% of the time when not docked.  In DU they will have 100% safe zones, where they cant even be ganked.  

Eve is rather polished and not near as laggy on my system. DU brings my system to its knees, nearly locks it up countless times during a session, and laughs.

 

Eve also has Concord, and gankers have to deal with them in High and Mid Sec. Elite, you get bounties put on your head for ganking innocents. Before we talk about making DU a 100% gankfest, let's talk about an appropriate punishment for gankers.

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40 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

Before we talk about making DU a 100% gankfest, let's talk about an appropriate punishment for gankers.

The punishment is playing DU in its current state.

46 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

This is typical overreaction post to try and support your argument.

It's an exaggerated reply to an exaggerated extrapolation by Elrood.

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22 minutes ago, dumpeet said:

The punishment is playing DU in its current state.

It's an exaggerated reply to an exaggerated extrapolation by Elrood.

That's not a punishment. I'm glad you're not in charge.

 

Fair enough, but two wrongs don't make a right and sarcasm doesn't translate in text.

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4 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

I'm glad you're not in charge.

Of course you are, you wouldn't be talking back otherwise.

4 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

That's not a punishment.

Tell that to all the people reporting gamebreaking bugs, garbage performance and lack of balance.

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Just now, dumpeet said:

Of course you are, you wouldn't be talking back otherwise.

I wouldn't be playing the game and take my money elsewhere.

Just now, dumpeet said:

Tell that to all the people reporting gamebreaking bugs, garbage performance and lack of balance.

Oh, I know all about the performance hell and it's bugs so bad I feel I need a can of raid, even for a beta. But if it's such a punishment, why are you still playing?

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2 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

I wouldn't be playing the game and take my money elsewhere.

As opposed to?

3 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

But if it's such a punishment, why are you still playing?

Aren't you assuming too much? I'll play when the game is playable.

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

It is short term thinking by a company which is putting revenue before their game design plans IMO.

You are giving NQ a lot of credit thinking that they have game design plans. ?

 

This fantasy roadmap does suggest that they wanted to make ships producible using the industry system. That might add a nice ability to quickly rebuild a vessel for a fee, but that's not even on the map until "post-release".

 

Granted this whole roadmap is kind of trash. 

 

There's 14 major bullet points between now and the end of "release" scheduled for 2021, so they'd need to average releasing 1 major feature each month for every month until the end of 2021 to meet this...

 

Amusing how they have "play in a smooth and balanced game world" as a bullet point. Sounds like a plan lol. 

 

Dual-Universe-Roadmap-Dec2019-11.png

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1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said:

But we dont want the safe zone to be the majority of the game world as it is now. 

Wut.

 

The safe zone may be where most of the players are, but it's a pretty small portion of the game "world".  And it will become even smaller if they start adding more star systems.

 

As for the whole "we should get rid of the safe zone" argument that folks are making, they're looking at this extremely short-sightedly.  NQ should absolutely keep the existing safe zone.  This not only ensures that new players can get a good foundation for the game, it ensures that there's actually an economy in place, because I'm pretty sure that all of the, "OMG, I just wanna blow people up!!!" crowd is not going to be contributing to anything other than the ammunition trade.  On top of that, as time goes on and NQ adds more systems, the fact that three planets and a few moons are a safe zone will become less and less relevant in regard to PvP.  As long as NQ puts something worth going to other systems for, the "I'm only happy if what I do makes someone else sad" crew can get all the PvP shenanigans they want and we get a functional economy.

 

If NQ gets rid of the safe zone, DU *WILL* lose far more players than would ever join specifically for that feature.  Despite what the PvP-obsessives tell themselves, there is almost no demand for MMOs with unrestricted PvP.  Or did y'all think it was a strange coincidence that MMOs with unrestricted PvP* rarely last more than a year?

 

If you still want to be playing DU a year or more from now, you'll want them to keep the safe zone in place indefinitely.

 

*No, EVE does not count as an unrestricted PvP MMO.  If a game has an NPC faction dedicated to blowing your ass up if you start stuff in the wrong system(s), it's not unrestricted.

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Concord's point is not saving your carebear ass, it's punishing the attackers which it does. This is why you avoid making enemies who have nothing to lose, they will just keep suicide bombing you until you get bored.

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50 minutes ago, dumpeet said:

Concord's point is not saving your carebear ass, it's punishing the attackers which it does. This is why you avoid making enemies who have nothing to lose, they will just keep suicide bombing you until you get bored.

You're an angry little fella aren't you?

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sounds like an excellent decision to me as i dont even like pvp. i have played eve since 2003 and never lost a single ship.....i think most players here are like me. i will continue playing duel as long as i can play like i choose not forced into some pointless pvp. Eve gave us the tools to avoid pvp and thats why most of the player base stayed.FYI

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41 minutes ago, toziop said:

sounds like an excellent decision to me as i dont even like pvp. i have played eve since 2003 and never lost a single ship.....i think most players here are like me. i will continue playing duel as long as i can play like i choose not forced into some pointless pvp. Eve gave us the tools to avoid pvp and thats why most of the player base stayed.FYI

I don't for one second believe this.  Not if you played any meaningful time in EvE. 

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17 hours ago, Anopheles said:

One of those two groups has misunderstood what NQ intended for the game.

At this point, I don't place much weight on what NQ intended for the game. 

 

Developers like NQ know of all the great warfare and drama that takes place in lawless space and think they can have that by only replicating lawless space.  In reality, high sec and low sec space are just as important to the longevity of Eve. Those areas are where you start and they allow players to slowly take on more risks as they learn the game and become comfortable with its mechanics. They are where defeated organizations go to regroup and prepare to try again. They are were players can go when they just don't feel up to the stress of lawless space for a while. 

 

Lawless space is fun but it is safe space that maintains the player population.  NQ cannot assume that population will stay around while player organizations create some kind of order - if they ever do.   

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14 hours ago, NoRezervationz said:

I'm gonna throw out my .02 USD.

 

If you want a more polished PvP-centric gaming experience right now, go play Eve or Elite Dangerous. PvP isn't ready in DU.

 

STOP complaining about "carebears." Seriously. NQ wants a player driven economy, and those "carebears" will be supporting it and the war efforts so that PvPer's can kill each other. It's exactly what happens in Eve, even though there are those who would destroy all PvEer's for the sake of it (and destroy the economy along with them too, though they'll never admit it).

 

Just deal with it for now. I imagine that once there is more game content (meaning missions and other reasons to leave the "bubble") you'll get your PvP. I don't understand why some "PvPer's" want to target barely armed noobs and call it PvP. I just don't get it. But until then, deal with the fact that it's an unfinished and unoptimized game, barely out of Alpha, that's concentrating on basic building.

perfect. couldn't have said it better.
 

Many (not all) PvPers by nature feel the need to fight and kill in game as a kind of IRL stress relief; the same reason why many of us adults play video games in the first place. Yet they often lack the skills to go up against their peers nor have the desire to face a real challenge (since that's what many of them have failed at in real life)  so all they can do is seal-club noobs/pacifists and whinge when the devs implement areas where they can't PK wantonly.
Oh, and call them the pejorative, "carebears."

Fairly standard "semi legitimised" online bully tactics.

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I honestly think that "carebears" are sociopaths.  Refuse to team up and play the game with other players.  And turn and project on those that do their own failings.

Back to the point.  The bubble will not help anything.  And must come down.  No risk no reward, good majority of the minerals can be found in the bubble.  And the game favors those sociopathic solo karens that whine and cry about the evil bad guys spoiling their hours and hours of work.  So what.  Play with a god damn group and take part in team play.  I have zero sympathy for that.  Takes me minutes to put a ship together because I play with a group.  

Don't want to play with a group?  Go play factorio.  Don't post pictures of the "voting" system for features.  Any democracy in video game development is foolish as players by nature are selfish and lack the bigger picture.  Voxel tools for art work is not going to keep the game going.

 

For me, its not clubbing seals or stress relief.  Its playing the game with my group as a team.  And if we are fighting another group that wants to fight great!  If we are attacking someone who is defenseless...its not a big deal.  It is our way of mining.  And anyone who says its "easy", has never sat and waited as a team for a target to show themselves.  Its just as much as a time investment as legitimate mining.  Even more so as we have to do it together and work together, and when they use exploitation in the PVP system to avoid the consequences of their actions, it robs us of our reward just.  Imagine the level of Reeeee if after spending an hour mining the ore in the container teleports back to the mining node and the node moves to the other side of the planet.

What seems like a few minutes at most to the target, is the result of patience and proper flying on the other side. 

 

Its not personal.  Its resource gathering.

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2 minutes ago, EntropicDuck said:

I honestly think that "carebears" are sociopaths.  Refuse to team up and play the game with other players.  And turn and project on those that do their own failings.

 

Assuming that carebears, whatever that means, are defacto solo players who do not interact or play with others is at best presumptuous and frankly says more about your mindset than theirs..

 

Qualifying someone who prefers to not engage in combat or will go out of their way to encounter combat a carebear (and in your perspective a sociopath) is both disrespectful and demeaning regarding how someone else chooses to play a game.

 

Engaging in combat is not a prerequisite for being a social person, violence is not a requirement for interaction and co-operation.

 

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