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RIP Market 15


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NQ has never declared this and exploit (or recognized this may be the result of buggy code) even when they have been provided with many reports on this. Maybe now they will wake up and face the facts of their RDMS implementation being rather .. well .. not water tight.. ;)

 

So I'd agree they really can't ban anyone for this as by their own ruleset (which no doubt will now be changed) this is a valid action which is not punishable an entirely caused by the victim not setting rights correctly.

 

Things may change going forward which is good and this also shows that the level of serious bugs and exploits possible possibly leading to unjustified enrichment and impact on the game really calls for .. drastic measures. Not sure how long it will be before this reaches a point where things need to be removed from the game. And it would be very "unfair" if NQ decides to now delete things or punish players while they have let this brew and simmer pretty much since the early start (as in day 2) of beta for backers.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Iorail said:

? Maybe now they will fix the exploit, because of course it happened to them.......and maybe someone will get the hammer this time......

Nah, I’m expecting too much ? 

Sounds like it was just an RDMS mistake by NQ. Even though RDMS theft is allowed, NQ is not a player and they should've differentiated that in their rules.

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I don't agree that there is a difference. According to NQ's rulebook, this is a perfectly fine action and they really have no way to apply punitive action here outside of maybe taking reports on this, their impact and how to deal with it more seriously. They can't simply go "well, if it is our stuff even when we made a booboo ourselves the rules do not apply".

 

They took _weeks_ to post their ruleset once we started to see heists like this happen in game after beta started, It's not like they weren not made aware of this well before beta started or did not have time to really think this through. Their general soft handed approach will come back an bite them again, this is just the first time.

 

To the guys pulling this off, regardless of whether it was easy or not, well done in making the point and driving it home. I really do not see how NQ can take any action against you since they have specifically declared this as allowed. 

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13 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

I don't agree that there is a difference. According to NQ's rulebook,

I know, I'm saying if NQ wanted there to be a difference, they should have said so in their rulebook

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42 minutes ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said:

Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this.

If ya have the time, there is another thread in the this forum that has a similar issue. I would suggest taking a look at that one as well. The post is titled" Unknown people took the base".

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17 minutes ago, toziop said:

wondering if maybe there are some from other games trying to purposely cause problems here

The number one problem here is that RDMS bugs have been reported multiple since the very beginning of beta, and nothing has happened.

The second is that NQ has not taken punitive actions against well documented cases where people have exploited these bugs.

 

Market 15 is basically someone lashing out trying desperately to finally get a response from NQ and some action on the issue.

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2 hours ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said:

Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this.

Are you doing anything about content creators telling people NQ have told them it's ok to ignore parts of the anti-cheat rules (see my post on anti-cheat rules)?

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7 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

Market 15 is basically someone lashing out trying desperately to finally get a response from NQ and some action on the issue.

Not according to their comments, they're just doing it for fame and giggles. But it did have that effect.

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15 minutes ago, toziop said:
  • Discovering or knowing an issue, bug, or exploit and benefiting from it instead of reporting it to Novaquark is forbidden.
     
  • seems to fall under this rule... Ban?

wondering if maybe there are some from other games trying to purposely cause problems here

LOL. 

 

The blame should be on the devs that allowed this to be possible. 

 

The "problem" is that NQ has never made a game before...

 

Let's review: 

- They can't optimize the game; don't tell me "it's beta" -- they've had 6 years to develop a solid core and failed. There's almost zero chance this game could support millions of players. Any actual dev will tell you optimization can't be an afterthought. Simply doesn't work like that. 

- They can't develop core features like PvP -- they still have no clue what they will do. It's been 6 years and they are in the design phase. Design comes before alpha, and they don't even have that done. 

- They can't communicate with players -- JC likes to go on streams but only deals with ass-kissers. Why is the CEO spending time on streams, anyway?!

- They can't fix basic bugs and exploits.

- They can't enforce the rules they created because they can't fix basic bugs and exploits...

- They can't create a permissions system -- even NQ can't seem to set this up properly. These are devs. That can't create a permissions system. 

- They can't even be bothered to make a subscription system (which takes a few days and a Stripe account)...Xsolla is for lazy companies that don't care about UX 

 

DU still has so much potential. If I didn't love many aspects of this game, I'd be gone by now. 

 

They can 100% fix the direction of this game...but they need major changes in leadership, which likely won't happen.

 

Hopefully events like this encourage them to quit going on streams and doing stupid easter eggs...and focus on making even one feature in this game actually work. 

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5 minutes ago, michaelk said:

LOL. 

 

The blame should be on the devs that allowed this to be possible. 

 

The "problem" is that NQ has never made a game before...

 

Let's review: 

- They can't optimize the game; don't tell me "it's beta" -- they've had 6 years to develop a solid core and failed. There's almost zero chance this game could support millions of players. Any actual dev will tell you optimization can't be an afterthought. Simply doesn't work like that. 

- They can't develop core features like PvP -- they still have no clue what they will do. It's been 6 years and they are in the design phase. Design comes before alpha, and they don't even have that done. 

- They can't communicate with players -- JC likes to go on streams but only deals with ass-kissers. Why is the CEO spending time on streams, anyway?!

- They can't fix basic bugs and exploits.

- They can't enforce the rules they created because they can't fix basic bugs and exploits...

- They can't create a permissions system -- even NQ can't seem to set this up properly. These are devs. That can't create a permissions system. 

- They can't even be bothered to make a subscription system (which takes a few days and a Stripe account)...Xsolla is for lazy companies that don't care about UX 

 

DU still has so much potential. If I didn't love many aspects of this game, I'd be gone by now. 

 

They can 100% fix the direction of this game...but they need major changes in leadership, which likely won't happen.

 

Hopefully events like this encourage them to quit going on streams and doing stupid easter eggs...and focus on making even one feature in this game actually work. 

 

I don't agree with you on many of these. The ship show had way more ships than the market and ran smooth -except for certain ships that had lua scripts - those did not run well at all. This suggests that the engine does fine - the scripting side is a mess though. NQ has stated that they are tasking a dev specifically with working on the LUA implementation.

 

I can't defend the PvP as it is. The implementation was flawed on paper. It should never have made it into a single line of code as it stands. Targeting speed and lockon distance being core based was - shortsighted to put it nicely.

 

NQ's communication is abysmal. I cannot defend it. Why do I find out more about what JC says about DU from 3rd party sources than from the main site/discord/foum? https://massivelyop.com/2020/10/17/some-assembly-required-the-future-of-dual-universes-puzzle-events-and-development/ WHY am I reading this on this site? Why do I have to go out of my way to find communication about the game I kickstarted!?

 

They HAVE fixed plenty of bugs and exploits. I can't defend that they often broke stuff to do so - but that neither here nor there - they are fixing exploits.

 

I agree that rule enforcement is nonexistance and their threats have been toothless. Whatever happened to the dupers? Nothing.

 

RDMS is extremely powerful and extremely complicated and extremely clunky. I have mixed feelings about it - I think it has tremendous potential once the bugs are sorted out. I don't think it's fair to NQ to say that they can't make it work - they just are trying to do too much with an abysmal clunky and unintuitive UI. The idea behind the system is solid, the implementation is not.

 

The subscription system is terrible yes. It's what I expect to see from 1 man indie projects.

 

 

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19 hours ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said:

Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this.

Translation: "We're about to over react massively to this."

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15 hours ago, Samlow said:

Just because possibly a known bug doesnt make it ok to exploit. Ever. 

I would see this like it is with hacks/exploits/backdoors in real world (btw as far as we know, this looks like bad RDMS, not a hack): Report it, wait some time for feedback and a fix, and when that doesn't happen, make it public. Making it public in the context of DU is either to post the steps to do it somewhere where NQ can't identify you and do anything against it (wont be noticed by many people) or using it on them so they HAVE to react.

 

But as I said, as it looks this was not a hack but bad RDMS (they only pressed B on the construct from what I have seen) and bad game design (market orders lost because they where somehow tied to the elements -> player markets with some problem like that will be a nightmare when planet PVP and player markets make it into the game). Should they have reported it? Yes (and they did, according to them, although through the wrong channels), the problem is how NQ reacted.

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