Emptiness Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Seems there was a heist of the century. Screenshots from the reddit post And someone on the discord went there and took this screenshot: So. That happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrood Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Good job level design team xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptiness Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 This could be our first glimpse of how player markets could work. Can a market terminal have its properties edited or interface with lua somehow to set what market it is tied to? Wonder if I could buy an, ahem, liberated terminal from the deconstructors. Dinkledash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iorail Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 ? Maybe now they will fix the exploit, because of course it happened to them.......and maybe someone will get the hammer this time...... Nah, I’m expecting too much ? Emptiness, borzol and Mordgier 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 NQ has never declared this and exploit (or recognized this may be the result of buggy code) even when they have been provided with many reports on this. Maybe now they will wake up and face the facts of their RDMS implementation being rather .. well .. not water tight.. So I'd agree they really can't ban anyone for this as by their own ruleset (which no doubt will now be changed) this is a valid action which is not punishable an entirely caused by the victim not setting rights correctly. Things may change going forward which is good and this also shows that the level of serious bugs and exploits possible possibly leading to unjustified enrichment and impact on the game really calls for .. drastic measures. Not sure how long it will be before this reaches a point where things need to be removed from the game. And it would be very "unfair" if NQ decides to now delete things or punish players while they have let this brew and simmer pretty much since the early start (as in day 2) of beta for backers. le_souriceau, MopnexAndreyno and Eruend the SkyReaper 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Whoever did this is a hero. NQ needed a wake up call. blazemonger, Anopheles, Iorail and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunty Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, Iorail said: ? Maybe now they will fix the exploit, because of course it happened to them.......and maybe someone will get the hammer this time...... Nah, I’m expecting too much ? Sounds like it was just an RDMS mistake by NQ. Even though RDMS theft is allowed, NQ is not a player and they should've differentiated that in their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazemonger Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I don't agree that there is a difference. According to NQ's rulebook, this is a perfectly fine action and they really have no way to apply punitive action here outside of maybe taking reports on this, their impact and how to deal with it more seriously. They can't simply go "well, if it is our stuff even when we made a booboo ourselves the rules do not apply". They took _weeks_ to post their ruleset once we started to see heists like this happen in game after beta started, It's not like they weren not made aware of this well before beta started or did not have time to really think this through. Their general soft handed approach will come back an bite them again, this is just the first time. To the guys pulling this off, regardless of whether it was easy or not, well done in making the point and driving it home. I really do not see how NQ can take any action against you since they have specifically declared this as allowed. CptLoRes and Mordgier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunty Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, blazemonger said: I don't agree that there is a difference. According to NQ's rulebook, I know, I'm saying if NQ wanted there to be a difference, they should have said so in their rulebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorizon Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I love this community. Spoiler Glad to have been a ks founder, I would have never enjoyed moments like this. Kinda sad though that I just moved to Madis... :c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NQ-Nudbrokk Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this. Dinkledash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treelessrain Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said: Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this. If ya have the time, there is another thread in the this forum that has a similar issue. I would suggest taking a look at that one as well. The post is titled" Unknown people took the base". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dargoth Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Discovering or knowing an issue, bug, or exploit and benefiting from it instead of reporting it to Novaquark is forbidden. seems to fall under this rule... Ban? wondering if maybe there are some from other games trying to purposely cause problems here Atmosph3rik and MopnexAndreyno 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptLoRes Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, toziop said: wondering if maybe there are some from other games trying to purposely cause problems here The number one problem here is that RDMS bugs have been reported multiple since the very beginning of beta, and nothing has happened. The second is that NQ has not taken punitive actions against well documented cases where people have exploited these bugs. Market 15 is basically someone lashing out trying desperately to finally get a response from NQ and some action on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornington Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 2 hours ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said: Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this. Are you doing anything about content creators telling people NQ have told them it's ok to ignore parts of the anti-cheat rules (see my post on anti-cheat rules)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunty Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, CptLoRes said: Market 15 is basically someone lashing out trying desperately to finally get a response from NQ and some action on the issue. Not according to their comments, they're just doing it for fame and giggles. But it did have that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelk Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, toziop said: Discovering or knowing an issue, bug, or exploit and benefiting from it instead of reporting it to Novaquark is forbidden. seems to fall under this rule... Ban? wondering if maybe there are some from other games trying to purposely cause problems here LOL. The blame should be on the devs that allowed this to be possible. The "problem" is that NQ has never made a game before... Let's review: - They can't optimize the game; don't tell me "it's beta" -- they've had 6 years to develop a solid core and failed. There's almost zero chance this game could support millions of players. Any actual dev will tell you optimization can't be an afterthought. Simply doesn't work like that. - They can't develop core features like PvP -- they still have no clue what they will do. It's been 6 years and they are in the design phase. Design comes before alpha, and they don't even have that done. - They can't communicate with players -- JC likes to go on streams but only deals with ass-kissers. Why is the CEO spending time on streams, anyway?! - They can't fix basic bugs and exploits. - They can't enforce the rules they created because they can't fix basic bugs and exploits... - They can't create a permissions system -- even NQ can't seem to set this up properly. These are devs. That can't create a permissions system. - They can't even be bothered to make a subscription system (which takes a few days and a Stripe account)...Xsolla is for lazy companies that don't care about UX DU still has so much potential. If I didn't love many aspects of this game, I'd be gone by now. They can 100% fix the direction of this game...but they need major changes in leadership, which likely won't happen. Hopefully events like this encourage them to quit going on streams and doing stupid easter eggs...and focus on making even one feature in this game actually work. Emptiness, Supermega, Nightranger and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samlow Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Just because possibly a known bug doesnt make it ok to exploit. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordgier Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, michaelk said: LOL. The blame should be on the devs that allowed this to be possible. The "problem" is that NQ has never made a game before... Let's review: - They can't optimize the game; don't tell me "it's beta" -- they've had 6 years to develop a solid core and failed. There's almost zero chance this game could support millions of players. Any actual dev will tell you optimization can't be an afterthought. Simply doesn't work like that. - They can't develop core features like PvP -- they still have no clue what they will do. It's been 6 years and they are in the design phase. Design comes before alpha, and they don't even have that done. - They can't communicate with players -- JC likes to go on streams but only deals with ass-kissers. Why is the CEO spending time on streams, anyway?! - They can't fix basic bugs and exploits. - They can't enforce the rules they created because they can't fix basic bugs and exploits... - They can't create a permissions system -- even NQ can't seem to set this up properly. These are devs. That can't create a permissions system. - They can't even be bothered to make a subscription system (which takes a few days and a Stripe account)...Xsolla is for lazy companies that don't care about UX DU still has so much potential. If I didn't love many aspects of this game, I'd be gone by now. They can 100% fix the direction of this game...but they need major changes in leadership, which likely won't happen. Hopefully events like this encourage them to quit going on streams and doing stupid easter eggs...and focus on making even one feature in this game actually work. I don't agree with you on many of these. The ship show had way more ships than the market and ran smooth -except for certain ships that had lua scripts - those did not run well at all. This suggests that the engine does fine - the scripting side is a mess though. NQ has stated that they are tasking a dev specifically with working on the LUA implementation. I can't defend the PvP as it is. The implementation was flawed on paper. It should never have made it into a single line of code as it stands. Targeting speed and lockon distance being core based was - shortsighted to put it nicely. NQ's communication is abysmal. I cannot defend it. Why do I find out more about what JC says about DU from 3rd party sources than from the main site/discord/foum? https://massivelyop.com/2020/10/17/some-assembly-required-the-future-of-dual-universes-puzzle-events-and-development/ WHY am I reading this on this site? Why do I have to go out of my way to find communication about the game I kickstarted!? They HAVE fixed plenty of bugs and exploits. I can't defend that they often broke stuff to do so - but that neither here nor there - they are fixing exploits. I agree that rule enforcement is nonexistance and their threats have been toothless. Whatever happened to the dupers? Nothing. RDMS is extremely powerful and extremely complicated and extremely clunky. I have mixed feelings about it - I think it has tremendous potential once the bugs are sorted out. I don't think it's fair to NQ to say that they can't make it work - they just are trying to do too much with an abysmal clunky and unintuitive UI. The idea behind the system is solid, the implementation is not. The subscription system is terrible yes. It's what I expect to see from 1 man indie projects. SGCamera_Beta, Emptiness, michaelk and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anopheles Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 19 hours ago, NQ-Nudbrokk said: Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we are actively invetigating this situation. Thank you for everyone who sent us a report about this. Translation: "We're about to over react massively to this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackblackplays Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 . these are kids . put big bag of sweets infront of kids . . tell them not to touch . now you are in the wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth000 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Samlow said: Just because possibly a known bug doesnt make it ok to exploit. Ever. I would see this like it is with hacks/exploits/backdoors in real world (btw as far as we know, this looks like bad RDMS, not a hack): Report it, wait some time for feedback and a fix, and when that doesn't happen, make it public. Making it public in the context of DU is either to post the steps to do it somewhere where NQ can't identify you and do anything against it (wont be noticed by many people) or using it on them so they HAVE to react. But as I said, as it looks this was not a hack but bad RDMS (they only pressed B on the construct from what I have seen) and bad game design (market orders lost because they where somehow tied to the elements -> player markets with some problem like that will be a nightmare when planet PVP and player markets make it into the game). Should they have reported it? Yes (and they did, according to them, although through the wrong channels), the problem is how NQ reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackblackplays Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 the market was left wide open with build rights for anyone people already reported it . . but it was ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samlow Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Still didnt need to break down the market then brag about it. Haunty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouHodo Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Samlow said: Still didnt need to break down the market then brag about it. Ultimately I feel that is why they were banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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