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CasraTX

Instead of a wipe at end of Beta, they should launch a "fresh" server.

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Look, straight up, give people a choice.  There will be those that vest time, money to create their DU experience.  Wiping that would be by the polls bad, and yeah in a game like this it would be not fun.  On the flip side, new people looking to join, prime targets would be Eve players and others, who would see the giant lead time others have and decide "yeah... no." means that not wiping deters future.  

Compromise, a "fresh server".

Maybe you are like me, spending time tinkering around, and realized you made a lot of mistakes as an uneducated "wow that video looked cool, I'mma try it" blind hop in.  The concept of a fresh start is appealing.  
I'd give Beta players 2 days max to hop in.  Maybe let them carry over 1 million in credits, a special title and maybe extra training points for their time vested.  This would encourage some to make the switch to help the new server take off.  

Make it clear to new players when game is live "If you come here, this is a vibrant established server where many players have built a flourishing economy and community"  And "If you start here, it's the wild west, a fresh start where veterans will have a small boost of training points and credits but really the playing field is "even".

I think that would be the best compromise.

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I dont think this is a good idea.

I dont think the player base would be large enough to sustain 2 servers, i still believe this game is and will be a niche game like eve, and should be lucky to attract player numbers like eve, and splitting that is not gonna do it any favors

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52 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

The game is already niche, the total player base will maybe eventually be able to keep the singe cluster viable and profitable, splitting it up certainly will not.

And that's a big "maybe". Cost will depend entirely on how players interact -- it will get more expensive as the game evolves and people cluster into orgs or cities because no amount of tech defeats the exponential growth of network traffic with more nearby clients...then we get to experience time dilation because they can't afford to spin up a few dozen servers when orgs want to fight. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mordgier said:

No.

 

That's not the point of DU. Like eve - 1 mega server.

 

I get that, just saying... the beta period means everyone that is waiting for "the devs to get it right before I play" will be way behind the powercurve.  Was a consideration.

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1 minute ago, CasraTX said:

I get that, just saying... the beta period means everyone that is waiting for "the devs to get it right before I play" will be way behind the powercurve.  Was a consideration.

They made their choice.

 

That is the nature of this game forever due to the time locked sp system.

 

 

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Do you realise the server requirements for this game, they are struggling to cover costs they need to upgrade as it is (hence the 'beta' subscription launch), so it would be impossible from that point of view (or at least completely unsustainable), you are doubling your costs for minimal gain.

Also what happens to the people that join after that?  Do we need to start a new server every year?

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9 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Do you realise the server requirements for this game, they are struggling to cover costs they need to upgrade as it is (hence the 'beta' subscription launch), so it would be impossible from that point of view (or at least completely unsustainable), you are doubling your costs for minimal gain.

Also what happens to the people that join after that?  Do we need to start a new server every year?

No, it was just a consideration for the official launch to draw in more people.  Choices can be good.

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Just now, CasraTX said:

No, it was just a consideration for the official launch to draw in more people.  Choices can be good.

One of the main running cost of the game is server cost (alongside staff / fixed), if you double that server cost, you at least have to double the player numbers to cover that cost.  That alone is a reason it is a none starter, sorry dont mean to piss on your candles, it just doesnt work financially before you even get into the game consequences.  For me what the game needs is more clarity about the fact it is supposed to be a player made civilization and interaction whilst the civilisation is VITAL to make good progress.

And the community needs to embrace that.

 

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3 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

One of the main running cost of the game is server cost (alongside staff / fixed), if you double that server cost, you at least have to double the player numbers to cover that cost.  That alone is a reason it is a none starter, sorry dont mean to piss on your candles, it just doesnt work financially before you even get into the game consequences.  For me what the game needs is more clarity about the fact it is supposed to be a player made civilization and interaction whilst the civilisation is VITAL to make good progress.

And the community needs to embrace that.

 

Fucking piss on them.  This is one of the dumbest things i've read here, and thats saying something.  "hey guys, this is the devs, this single shard server will be our main selling point, and the very ground work for our whole game, everyone on 1 server!!"  Then this dude comes along and thinks he can suggest something that fundamentally changes THE WHOLE GAME. Where do these people come from? 

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Yes, yes, the OP's idea isn't great given the design focus of this game, but there's no reason to dunk on him out of the gate for sharing a viewpoint. Just plain rude.

 

But yeah, splitting the community in any capacity is not a good idea going forward. Additionally, in a game that is primarily player-driven, having well established players and organizations that are already actively contributing to aspects of the game like the economy is likely to be beneficial to new players. They might have missed an opportunity to get in on the ground floor, but that's hardly the only appeal of a game like this. Also, with the plans to add more planets, solar systems, and things like that, there will hopefully always be fresh things for people to do.

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5 hours ago, CasraTX said:

the beta period means everyone that is waiting for "the devs to get it right before I play" will be way behind the powercurve.  Was a consideration.

 

I get your point and I do not disagree. The problem her eis that NQ has pretty much committed to having launched the game at beta and not wipe at any point unless there is unavoidable technical reason. As I argued elsewhere I believe this will seriously limit their ability to fairly balance the game and have those that are able to benefit from the imbalance of the game at the current time (which is to be expected at this stage in development) take a massive lead by doing so. 

 

Splitting the community would be a bad plan, not wiping at official release IMO is not good for the game and while wiping at the moment of official release would be good for the game as a whole, it will upset those that were able to benefit from loopholes, bugs, exploits and imbalance along the way as NQ has shown to not be willing and/or able to correct such benefits once they fix such issues.

 

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16 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

..... it will upset those that were able to benefit from loopholes, bugs, exploits and imbalance along the way as NQ has shown to not be willing and/or able to correct such benefits once they fix such issues.

 

Very presumptuous of you to assume that players who played legitimately and poopsocked mining for weeks would not be upset....

 

I'd be livid. There is a reason I didn't play in Alpha and do play now.

 

That is the wipe.

 

I picked this up and made alt accounts with the expectation that my progress would be preserved.

 

Worlds Adrift had lots of wipes for adding content and cleaning up exploits - and shockingly that did the game no favors. No magical new players showed up post wipe to replace those who got burned out by the wipes.

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Wipes are part of beta gameplay because of the nature of a development in beta stage. It should be expected. Committing to not wiping post beta start IMO was a major mistake by NQ which IMO was driven by their need to put generating revenue before the game's development at this stage simply in order to be able to keep doing the latter.

 

What their choice in this meant became painfully clear very soon after the "final" wipe.. as in two days day later, but they never pulled the trigger on a wipe then and yes, would have considerably more trouble doing so now even when I really do not think they will be able to get around it at least once in the next 12-18 months.

 

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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Wipes are part of beta gameplay because of the nature of a development in beta stage. It should be expected. Committing to not wiping post beta start IMO was a major mistake by NQ which IMO was driven by their need to put generating revenue before the game's development at this stage simply in order to be able to keep doing the latter.

 

What their choice in this meant became painfully clear very soon after the "final" wipe.. as in two days day later, but they never pulled the trigger on a wipe then and yes, would have considerably more trouble doing so now even when I really do not think they will be able to get around it at least once in the next 12-18 months.

 

NQ was pretty explicit about the lack of wipes. 

 

To say it's 'beta' is pretty silly - Warframe is still 'beta' - and yet a wipe would be unacceptable.

 

I came to this game with certain expectations and promises and opened my wallet based on those.

 

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As an alpha tester I'd say you joined when the expectation was still that the game would be in closed beta for at least a year after beta started and see a wipe on release. Your expectations may have changed once NQ announced they were going public at beta instead but that was not what you came in on. playing the " I pledged because of this" card does not apply here.

 

Personally I really hope NQ come to their senses and revert their no wipes position as it shackles them in their ability to freely progress and improve the game. It would not actually affect me really either way but  I honestly  believe that for the game in the long run it would be better as they will be faced with the fallout and consequences of not doing so for a long time to come.  We can disagree in that regard and that is obviously fine, but that is my opinion in this.

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11 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

" I pledged because of this" card does not apply here.

 

 

I have multiple accounts. Two are beta'd and those are not attached to monthly fees - but others are post beta and DO have fees.

 

So yes - I am absolutely running alts with the expectation that the money that is being spent sorely for their SP is maintained. 

 

I am also only playing this game today because I expect my time investment in this game to be retained. 

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1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

I have multiple accounts. Two are beta'd and those are not attached to monthly fees - but others are post beta and DO have fees.

 

So yes - I am absolutely running alts with the expectation that the money that is being spent sorely for their SP is maintained. 

 

I am also only playing this game today because I expect my time investment in this game to be retained. 

This is only my experience, but while me and my group did have some fun during alpha, we all eventually quit and said we wouldn't play again til there was no more confirmed wipes.  Im in the exact same boat, as in while i have multiple accounts that wont need to pay until release, I have purchased more accounts since then, for the sole reason that I will be able to use their Talent Points.  NQ I think knows this, and they needed money, and they made the choice, and I gave them money on that choice. 

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I agree, I wouldnt have come back to the game in beta and gone hardcore if there was going to be a wipe, I would have waited until launch, and would most of the others i have come to the game with.

100% if they full wipe now I am out, as are most of my org, as NQ would have completely gone back on there promises.

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19 hours ago, CasraTX said:

Look, straight up, give people a choice.  There will be those that vest time, money to create their DU experience.  Wiping that would be by the polls bad, and yeah in a game like this it would be not fun.  On the flip side, new people looking to join, prime targets would be Eve players and others, who would see the giant lead time others have and decide "yeah... no." means that not wiping deters future.  

Compromise, a "fresh server".

Maybe you are like me, spending time tinkering around, and realized you made a lot of mistakes as an uneducated "wow that video looked cool, I'mma try it" blind hop in.  The concept of a fresh start is appealing.  
I'd give Beta players 2 days max to hop in.  Maybe let them carry over 1 million in credits, a special title and maybe extra training points for their time vested.  This would encourage some to make the switch to help the new server take off.  

Make it clear to new players when game is live "If you come here, this is a vibrant established server where many players have built a flourishing economy and community"  And "If you start here, it's the wild west, a fresh start where veterans will have a small boost of training points and credits but really the playing field is "even".

I think that would be the best compromise.

I hate games that are not single server. I'll probably go back to eve if this ever happens.

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44 minutes ago, Busterguy said:

why do call this topic saying there is going to be a wipe at the end of beta. There wont be a wipe. Stop giving out false information.

i guess this is the reason a lot started playing with beta me included :P

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