Not Punishing Desolation was weak and poor from NQ

[Moosegun 317]

Going to be totally honest with you here, I wish they had kept it in the game, i liked the fact you could steal ships from unclaimed tiles, jacking ships is gameplay.  As long as they were using gameplay mechanics, claiming the tile etc. then they had no idea if it was intended or not, thus you cannot punish them for it.  

My biggest issue with this whole thing is that is went on weeks before NQ said or did anything, the first thing they should have done when they found out about it is issue a statement telling everyone whether or not it was considered an exploit.  From that stage on anyone doing it could be punished, not before.

[WildChild85 131]

On 10/14/2020 at 3:11 AM, Lunchbox said:

@WildChild85 Where did you get your numbers? From what I hear they are grossly inflated. It sounds more like a post by a victim then it does a concerned citizen. Also to call for a ban to a large clan in beta is purely an emotional decision on your part. If this was the actual release, I would agree with you but what happens in beta stays in beta in any game genre. I have participated in Alpha's and beta's for over four decades and if this is the worse you have seen to call for a ban then you really need to play more games in these stages. But, you are allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else.....Just seems like your starting with a victim mentality to get the mob rioting. Go mine or something.

A clan that actively advertises to use bugs and exploits. And I don't mean permanently ban. Temporary would be good enough.

 

Which numbers?

 

And no it doen't stay in the beta. There won't be any wipe anymore. In terms of persistancy we are already after the release.

[Moosegun 317]

3 hours ago, WildChild85 said:

A clan that actively advertises to use bugs and exploits. And I don't mean permanently ban. Temporary would be good enough.

If they are openly advertising actual exploits I 100% agree, but this was not an exploit, it was a use of gameplay mechanics which it was unclear whether they were intended to be used that way.  Like i said, I see the it as a 100% legit thing to do, you dont, it is a grey area.  NQ should have clarified it was seen as a exploit, even if they didnt have a fix for it, if they had done then I agree a ban would be appropriate.  As NQ didnt clarify the situation, there is no way you can sanction the players involved.

If they are openly advertising stuff that is confirmed as an exploit, different story.

For the basis of clarity / bias can you confirm if you lost a ship to these people?

[WildChild85 131]

8 hours ago, Moosegun said:

If they are openly advertising actual exploits I 100% agree, but this was not an exploit, it was a use of gameplay mechanics which it was unclear whether they were intended to be used that way.  Like i said, I see the it as a 100% legit thing to do, you dont, it is a grey area.  NQ should have clarified it was seen as a exploit, even if they didnt have a fix for it, if they had done then I agree a ban would be appropriate.  As NQ didnt clarify the situation, there is no way you can sanction the players involved.

If they are openly advertising stuff that is confirmed as an exploit, different story.

For the basis of clarity / bias can you confirm if you lost a ship to these people?

PVP by choice. Stealing a ship is pvp. Pvp in the save zones is clearly an exploit.

[Moosegun 317]

28 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

PVP by choice. Stealing a ship is pvp. Pvp in the save zones is clearly an exploit.

Here is the rub though, you 'clearly' see it as an exploit, I dont, I would have kept it in the game (neither of us are actually right, they are both valid opinions).  That fact that we both have very different opinions on it is kind of my point, the issue here is NQ not clarifying sooner the situation, without that clarification there can be no punishment.

I will take your silence to mean you DID lose a ship, not an issue, you have every right to be pissed off, just that one of us in this conversation is giving an unbias opinion.

[WildChild85 131]

Just now, Moosegun said:

Here is the rub though, you 'clearly' see it as an exploit, I dont, I would have kept it in the game (neither of us are actually right, they are both valid opinions).  That fact that we both have very different opinions on it is kind of my point, the issue here is NQ not clarifying sooner the situation, without that clarification there can be no punishment.

I will take you silence to mean you DID lose a ship, not an issue, you have every right to be pissed off, just that one of us in this conversation is giving an unbias opinion.

I actually didn't loose anything. But I read a lot in the official discord of the reaction of people and I know that this incident made the game loosing a lot of players. It is one thing, if you go into the pvp zone and you loose everthing, because you choosed it and another thing if you think you are save in the save zone but you are not because players used clearly not intended game mechanics.

[michaelk 157]

I don't understand why this is still a discussion to be honest. 

 

Ex post facto is a solid legal postulate for a reason. You shouldn't punish people retroactively. If you want people to not do something, say so. That's among the most basic legal principles ever -- for a good reason. 

 

Players clearly intended to harm other players, but that's ostensibly part of this game. You think that religious cult on Alioth is going to devote themselves to charity?! 

 

Players shouldn't have to guess as to what NQ intended to be a valid mechanic; NQ has to do enough guessing about that, themselves. 

[Mordgier 448]

3 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

clearly not intended game mechanics.

JUST LIKE READY PLAYER ONE GO BACKWARDS TO WIN 

[WildChild85 131]

1 minute ago, michaelk said:

I don't understand why this is still a discussion to be honest. 

 

Ex post facto is a solid legal postulate for a reason. You shouldn't punish people retroactively. If you want people to not do something, say so. That's among the most basic legal principles ever -- for a good reason. 

 

Players clearly intended to harm other players, but that's ostensibly part of this game. You think that religious cult on Alioth is going to devote themselves to charity?! 

 

Players shouldn't have to guess as to what NQ intended to be a valid mechanic; NQ has to do enough guessing about that, themselves. 

They continued doing it for days AFTER Nq already told them to stop it.

[Moosegun 317]

1 minute ago, WildChild85 said:

I actually didn't loose anything. But I read a lot in the official discord of the reaction of people and I know that this incident made the game loosing a lot of players. It is one thing, if you go into the pvp zone and you loose everthing, because you choosed it and another thing if you think you are save in the save zone but you are not because players used clearly not intended game mechanics.

Why is someone stealing something abandoned in an empty tile, through claiming the tile 'clearly' not intended?   I literally thought it WAS intended, 100% thought it was a really clever piece of gameplay.  You cant say I am 'wrong' because you are not me, sorry we have different opinions.  As I have said, without NQ clarifying whether or not if was intended, there is no case to answer.  To be honest we are going around in circles here, think we are best agreeing to disagree.  No harm no foul, fly safe.

[WildChild85 131]

Just now, Moosegun said:

Why is someone stealing something abandoned in an empty tile, through claiming the tile 'clearly' not intended?   I literally thought it WAS intended, 100% thought it was a really clever piece of gameplay.  You cant say I am 'wrong' because you are not me, sorry we have different opinions.  As I have said, without NQ clarifying whether or not if was intended, there is no case to answer.  To be honest we are going around in circles here, think we are best agreeing to disagree.  No harm no foul, fly safe.

They did not claim the tile

[Moosegun 317]

Just now, WildChild85 said:

They continued doing it for days AFTER Nq already told them to stop it.

In which case throw the book at them, 100% ban them, they are cheating asshats, I dont want them anywhere near the game.  If what you say is true, slightly confused why you havent mentioed it before though, bearing in mind it was a big part of the conversation.

[WildChild85 131]

Just now, Moosegun said:

In which case throw the book at them, 100% ban them, they are cheating asshats, I dont want them anywhere near the game.  If what you say is true, slightly confused why you havent mentioed it before though, bearing in mind it was a big part of the conversation.

It's all fine. I am not yelling at you. I am yelling at them.

[Moosegun 317]

Just now, WildChild85 said:

They did not claim the tile

In which case I think you need to pay more attention to people replies, I CLEARLY said in a previous post - if they did not use exploits and just claimed the tiles and moved the ship it is no problem, if they used other exploits then different story.  Do yourself a favour, read posts, and reply to the content of them, dont just keep repeating yourself.

[WildChild85 131]

1 minute ago, Moosegun said:

In which case I think you need to pay more attention to people replies, I CLEARLY said in a previous post - if they did not use exploits and just claimed the tiles and moved the ship it is no problem, if they used other exploits then different story.  Do yourself a favour, read posts, and reply to the content of them, dont just keep repeating yourself.

Calm down. I said I am not yelling at you.

[michaelk 157]

3 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

They continued doing it for days AFTER Nq already told them to stop it.

100% that's just incompetence.

 

See this thread here: 

NQ's mods spend so much time on basic BS, they don't have time for much else. 

 

I don't think they made an actual decision to not punish these people. 

 

Hanlon's razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"

[Moosegun 317]

2 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

Calm down. I said I am not yelling at you.

I am really calm dood, chill as a mofo, just very confused with this ever changing story..... just wondering why 20 posts on I am having to explain stuff I said 2 pages ago

[Mornington 22]

2 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Here is the rub though, you 'clearly' see it as an exploit, I dont, I would have kept it in the game (neither of us are actually right, they are both valid opinions).  That fact that we both have very different opinions on it is kind of my point, the issue here is NQ not clarifying sooner the situation, without that clarification there can be no punishment.

I will take your silence to mean you DID lose a ship, not an issue, you have every right to be pissed off, just that one of us in this conversation is giving an unbias opinion.

Please clarify your statement - you "don't" see this as an exploit, even after NQ have stated plainly that it is? Or did you intend to use the past tense, and are admitting now that your 'opinion' was misguided, and this is, in fact, an exploit? 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Mornington
spelling

[Moosegun 317]

4 minutes ago, Mornington said:

Please clarify your statement - you "don't" see this as am exploit, even after NQ have stated plainly that it is? Or did you intend to use the past tense, and are admitting now that your 'opinion' was misguided, and this is, in fact, an exploit? 

No, I think it is solid gameplay, once the safe zone is removed I hope they bring it back.  NQ see it differently, i am cool with that.

Would I ever do it, no, of course not I am trader industrialist, that avoids pvp.  But I want it in the game, I want people to be able to steal the stuff of people who are careless.  I have never left a single ship of mine on anyone else's or an unclaimed tile, because i look after my stuff.  I get it, some other people want the game to look after them, I am fine thanks.

[Mornington 22]

10 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

No, I think it is solid gameplay, once the safe zone is removed I hope they bring it back.  NQ see it differently, i am cool with that.

So the phrase "don't DU it" is just a challenge for you to try to get away with doing breaking rules you disagree with because complying with them would require you to self-censor abuse of unintended gameplay features?

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Mornington
clarify of meaning

[Moosegun 317]

3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Would I ever do it, no, of course not I am trader industrialist, that avoids pvp.  But I want it in the game, I want people to be able to steal the stuff of people who are careless.  I have never left a single ship of mine on anyone else's or an unclaimed tile, because i look after my stuff.  I get it, some other people want the game to look after them, I am fine thanks.

It wasnt a rule, as soon as it became a rule it is an exploit and you should be banned for doing it.  I have no issue with it as gameplay but other players and NQ do, I accept that 100%.  That doesnt change my opinion that I would have it in the game.  Are you just trying to have to start and argument or being obtuse?  Anyone how knows me on this forums, knows my stance on exploits, I have reported many.  This is simple a difference of opinion, stop trying to imply it is something that is isnt.  Stand down mate.

You have made three posts on this forum, not seen the other one but not impressed so far.

[Iorail 113]

9 hours ago, Moosegun said:

No, I think it is solid gameplay, once the safe zone is removed I hope they bring it back.  NQ see it differently, i am cool with that.

Would I ever do it, no, of course not I am trader industrialist, that avoids pvp.  But I want it in the game, I want people to be able to steal the stuff of people who are careless.  I have never left a single ship of mine on anyone else's or an unclaimed tile, because i look after my stuff.  I get it, some other people want the game to look after them, I am fine thanks.

The problem is that they continue to do it after told to stop, playing it as “oh I didn’t know this was illegal”. Plus they encourage the use of exploits and cheats on their org charter, they have it written in black and white. But what it’s worst, imho, it’s that even after everything and the continue use of exploits and cheats even after told to stop, no one have been punished at all, again, even after NQ’s post and warning, they are still doing what they where doing before.

[Moosegun 317]

20 minutes ago, Iorail said:

The problem is that they continue to do it after told to stop, playing it as “oh I didn’t know this was illegal”. Plus they encourage the use of exploits and cheats on their org charter, they have it written in black and white. But what it’s worst, imho, it’s that even after everything and the continue use of exploits and cheats even after told to stop, no one have been punished at all, again, even after NQ’s post and warning, they are still doing what they where doing before.

and if that is the case I would kick them so far out of the game they would leave its atmosphere.........

[Lethys 2902]

31 minutes ago, Iorail said:

The problem is that they continue to do it after told to stop, playing it as “oh I didn’t know this was illegal”.

it's clearly a bannable offence now. not knowig it is not an argument here. report it if you've seen it and you're done. If NQ doesn't act accordingly then they're just weak and need to grow some balls and ban ppl for doing smth against TOS/EULA

[JohnnyTazer 298]

4 minutes ago, Lethys said:

it's clearly a bannable offence now. not knowig it is not an argument here. report it if you've seen it and you're done. If NQ doesn't act accordingly then they're just weak and need to grow some balls and ban ppl for doing smth against TOS/EULA

I made a post about this very thing way back in Alpha, how NQ wasn't ready for the influx of people who will do whatever.  I told them they need to define rules, so they can ban accordingly.  No surprise we are here right now.  PvP is gonna happen, and people are gonna get salty as fuck even when its "intended gameplay".  I even pointed how people would come to these forums crying when losing a ship, even in PvP zones, and cry about where they THINK safe zones should be.  NQ just needs to define rules, then fuck on anyone who breaks them.  If they dont start doing that soon its not gonna be good.