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WildChild85

Not Punishing Desolation was weak and poor from NQ

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15 minutes ago, Frigidman said:

Best course of action is to simply ignore them. Much like ignoring a brat having a tantrum. They do this because its the only way they can get attention. There is nothing anyone can say that will change this, and in trying only stirs them up more as the hate and anger is what they live on.

 

So simply ignore them (better yet, just put them on mute and move on with your life).

I would ban them permanently

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I can't even get NQ to clean up my neighbors racist slurs. I am surprised they even took a stand on everything. I logged a ticket, even went to the discord and tried to get a tech to do something. He just said "it will be taken care of" and then blew me off by saying "it was the end of his shift." I am about to send the stuff to a friend so he can take it to the courts of reddit how DU allows racist slurs and harassments with said slurs.

 

So with all that being said I am surprised NQ did anything about the ship jacking.

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3 hours ago, WildChild85 said:

I would ban them permanently

I get it....but "ex post facto" is a pretty well accepted legal and moral postulate...It isn't fair to dole out punishment in retrospect, after NQ declared this "forbidden". If that doesn't seem fair, the onus is on NQ to deal with this more promptly. 

 

2 hours ago, BaconofWar said:

I can't even get NQ to clean up my neighbors racist slurs. I am surprised they even took a stand on everything. I logged a ticket, even went to the discord and tried to get a tech to do something. He just said "it will be taken care of" and then blew me off by saying "it was the end of his shift." I am about to send the stuff to a friend so he can take it to the courts of reddit how DU allows racist slurs and harassments with said slurs.

 

So with all that being said I am surprised NQ did anything about the ship jacking.

That's extremely bad. For them to recognize the issue and ignore it is either incompetent in the extreme or outright racist. There's no place for racism anywhere; I don't care what level of employee you are or how crappy your job is, you don't ignore something like this. 

 

NQ needs some better leadership at the customer service level. 

 

If you think being blocked by walls or having your ship stolen is bad...it doesn't compare to racist idiots polluting the world with hate.  If they can't address something that simple, good luck policing which walls are okay and which ones aren't. 

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3 minutes ago, michaelk said:

I get it....but "ex post facto" is a pretty well accepted legal and moral postulate...It isn't fair to dole out punishment in retrospect, after NQ declared this "forbidden". If that doesn't seem fair, the onus is on NQ to deal with this more promptly. 

 

That's extremely bad. For them to recognize the issue and ignore it is either incompetent in the extreme or outright racist. There's no place for racism anywhere; I don't care what level of employee you are or how crappy your job is, you don't ignore something like this. 

 

NQ needs some better leadership at the customer service level. 

 

If you think being blocked by walls or having your ship stolen is bad...it doesn't compare to racist idiots polluting the world with hate.  If they can't address something that simple, good luck policing which walls are okay and which ones aren't. 

Does that mean, that NQ has to forbid each upcoming exploit and bug seperately?

Bug is bug and exploit is exploit. The usage should be punished by temporary or permanent ban.

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2 hours ago, WildChild85 said:

Does that mean, that NQ has to forbid each upcoming exploit and bug seperately?

Bug is bug and exploit is exploit. The usage should be punished by temporary or permanent ban.

Yes, they should be explicit. 

 

Even obvious jerks have a right to know what isn't allowed in the game they've paid for. It's on NQ to spell out the terms of use, not on players to divine how the game is supposed to work. 

 

If they make prompt announcements, it is much easier to report and punish people...but punishment only goes so far anyway. Hardcore jerks can buy another account and become even better customers for NQ. 

 

The more vague they make the rules, the more cover they have to ignore reports. They'd rather ignore it because their support can't keep up. 

 

Honestly though...I think NQ should fix BaconOfWar's piece of trash racist neighbor, first.

 

That's an important and super easy ticket...if they can't figure out how to deal with something like that promptly, their exact policy doesn't really matter...because they'll never have the competence to enforce it. 

 

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It’s simple really, they won’t enforce it when it continues to happen over and over.


It’s well known that there is an org that promotes the use of exploits and glitches, and it’s even written on their own org rules. That alone should be enough to permanently ban the leaders of that org and soft ban everyone else (at least a week) that belongs to that org. But they really question here is why don’t they do it? There is tangible proof, and they repeatedly continue to abuse exploits.

 

Is no one curious why nothing is ever done? Really? Who are this players is the real question, why they continue to be exempted. Besides, even if they get all ban, they will be playing minutes after the ban with a different account, and that is also well known. I stop caring right after exploit 3 of Beta, because this is when I realized they will never punish them, ever (not counting Alpha bs here but some of us know what happened).

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On 10/7/2020 at 11:34 AM, Mordgier said:

Really? A carrier full of pvp ships getting warped around the galaxy dropping off ships at distant planets to snipe people as they decelerate on approach didn't make people quit?

 

I think you are severly overestimating the impact of people who lost their crappy noob ships on Alioth to those who lost them to the pvp cheese.

 

I bet that more people quit from losing their newbie speeders by lagging them into the 'no fly zone' at the markets when their FPS dropped to 0 and they couldn't stop.

 

I'm not trying to turn this into some "whataboutism" - but if we are going to apply punishments to exploits - it's all or nothing.

 

So yes - either nothing is punished or everything is. Warpsleds, links, dupes, safe zone theft, etc....

So you are turning a whataboutism to an allornothingism?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ExPLiCiT said:

So you are turning a whataboutism to an allornothingism?

 

 

If you're going to punish for exploits, you punish for all exploits.  Not some exploits.  The whole point is a fair and level playing field.

 

I'll be cheering NQ on if they start punishing, exploiters through resets or temp bans or perm bans - all exploiters. Not just the ones that got some players butthurt by taking their ship.

 

Else it turns very much into  - well what it actually is - as long as the exploit just benefits you without harming someone directly and obviously else NQ doesn't do anything about it.

 

 

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Ultimately it's the determination of the game designer on whether its an exploit or not, not the players.

 

I will reserve my judgement to see what they do to players that are reported after the announcement.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit

 

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

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NQ has made their intentions very clear moving forward from today regarding exploits. They listed the ones that they deem "Acceptable" for now, which does not harm other players experience and then was very clear on what is NOT acceptable. NQ has already stated that anyone caught doing any exploit that is not currently on the acceptable list can face consequences up to losing their account. 

 

While I do agree that NQ should have moved much faster on the stealing ships exploit, at this point in time there is nothing more to be done. If you know of or encounter any other exploit, they have clearly stated to report them so they can investigate and take action on fixing. This warp cell exploit with mass has already been addressed as something they do not allow, so if you see orgs using this, send in a ticket with specific details, such as loc, time, date, name of ships, etc. 

 

In every MMO game you will always have players who exploit, cheat, create issues all in the name of "but the game let me do it". Most orgs will not tolerate such behavior and I have a feeling that in time, player justice in-game will dole out punishment to groups and orgs that have gained these reputations. 

 

Recording game footage is always the smoking gun that devs love to see when reporting issues, so if you have the ability to record gameplay that saves the last 5-15 min of footage at all times, you never know what you might capture for those who go out of their way to investigate issues. NQ has stated this is the only warning they are giving and moving forward will be taking punitive actions. So if there are players, groups, orgs still doing them, get your in-game recordings going and then submit to devs. 

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22 hours ago, Palad1n said:

NQ has made their intentions very clear moving forward from today regarding exploits. They listed the ones that they deem "Acceptable" for now, which does not harm other players experience and then was very clear on what is NOT acceptable. NQ has already stated that anyone caught doing any exploit that is not currently on the acceptable list can face consequences up to losing their account. 

 

While I do agree that NQ should have moved much faster on the stealing ships exploit, at this point in time there is nothing more to be done. If you know of or encounter any other exploit, they have clearly stated to report them so they can investigate and take action on fixing. This warp cell exploit with mass has already been addressed as something they do not allow, so if you see orgs using this, send in a ticket with specific details, such as loc, time, date, name of ships, etc. 

 

In every MMO game you will always have players who exploit, cheat, create issues all in the name of "but the game let me do it". Most orgs will not tolerate such behavior and I have a feeling that in time, player justice in-game will dole out punishment to groups and orgs that have gained these reputations. 

 

Recording game footage is always the smoking gun that devs love to see when reporting issues, so if you have the ability to record gameplay that saves the last 5-15 min of footage at all times, you never know what you might capture for those who go out of their way to investigate issues. NQ has stated this is the only warning they are giving and moving forward will be taking punitive actions. So if there are players, groups, orgs still doing them, get your in-game recordings going and then submit to devs. 

But where is the punishment. Every rule from NQ is worthless if they don't enforce it. Today I heard about another incident I will post tomorrow. And again the player did not got punished even if he changed the game files.

 

NQ doesn't punish anybody. From now on I can only suggest everbody to use each exploit and bug that is not explicitly prohibited very excessively to enforce NQ to act. And you know what, you can actually use bugs and exploits that are explicitly prohibited, because NQ will not punish you. More updates about that tomorrow.

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On 10/8/2020 at 9:55 PM, Mordgier said:

If you're going to punish for exploits, you punish for all exploits.  Not some exploits.  The whole point is a fair and level playing field.

This is 100% BS. Here and in real life. 

Justice is applied against a crime, one case at each time. 

And you definitely do not need to be 100% just to apply justice at one case. 

 

Sure we want all exploiters to have some sort of consequence for exploiting. But punishing one exploit has nothing to do with another exploit. It only has to do with the consequences his exploiting caused to others. 

 

One case at each time we must evaluate and apply justice. 

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On 10/8/2020 at 11:26 PM, Palad1n said:

While I do agree that NQ should have moved much faster on the stealing ships exploit, at this point in time there is nothing more to be done

If only there was a "exploit" in the past to serve as an example on how NQ can punish ppl retroactively................ 

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28 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

This is 100% BS. Here and in real life. 

Justice is applied against a crime, one case at each time. 

And you definitely do not need to be 100% just to apply justice at one case. 

 

Sure we want all exploiters to have some sort of consequence for exploiting. But punishing one exploit has nothing to do with another exploit. It only has to do with the consequences his exploiting caused to others. 

 

One case at each time we must evaluate and apply justice. 

So you agree that we should punish all crimes?


Cause that's what my point is.

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3 hours ago, Mordgier said:

So you agree that we should punish all crimes?


Cause that's what my point is.

Yes. But not forcibly at same time or with the same punishment. 

Case by case. And now it's time to judge this case and not others. 

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1 hour ago, joaocordeiro said:

Yes. But not forcibly at same time or with the same punishment. 

Case by case. And now it's time to judge this case and not others. 

I never suggested same punishment. Either way, this is a moot point as NQ has already stated that they will not punish for this retroactively.

 

My point is that if NQ is going to start punishing for exploits - it can't JUST be this one because selectively applying the policies to some cases of exploitation and entirely turning a blind eye to others is hardly just.

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2 hours ago, Anopheles said:

The same people using the "NQ called it an exploit - deal with it" are struggling to deal with NQ not punishing people. Odd that.

Nothing odd about it. 

It does not matter if its a exploit, a bug, a legal gameplay. It was 100% griefing. And it was not some accidental griefing. Ppl were actively going out of their way to grief others. That should be punished. 

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6 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Nothing odd about it. 

It does not matter if its a exploit, a bug, a legal gameplay. It was 100% griefing. And it was not some accidental griefing. Ppl were actively going out of their way to grief others. That should be punished. 

I fundamentally disagree with you that stealing a ship is griefing. 

 

Do you think org theft is griefing? 

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14 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

I fundamentally disagree with you that stealing a ship is griefing. 

 

Do you think org theft is griefing? 

The "Stealing" word includes many forms of action. 

 

I know you guys want to try to blur this by creating huge bundles of subjective actions.. 

 

But this is a specific case of griefing that is not subjective at all. 

The actions of this griefers caused major grief to a very large number of players, while exploiting a game feature not intended to that end. Its the definition of griefing on every website, including wikipedia. 

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Better lock down ships, containers, and basically industry. There are 2 new exploits which allows people to simply fly off with your ship and another that allows people access to your container without the need for permissions. I bet anything this new exploits will go unpunished and no one will get even a hand slap, specially the members of the org mention in the OP. Hide your cores people....

 
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2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

The "Stealing" word includes many forms of action. 

 

I know you guys want to try to blur this by creating huge bundles of subjective actions.. 

 

But this is a specific case of griefing that is not subjective at all. 

The actions of this griefers caused major grief to a very large number of players, while exploiting a game feature not intended to that end. Its the definition of griefing on every website, including wikipedia. 

First and foremost - there is no Wikipedia encyclopedic article page for Griefing - the entry that DOES exist is an essay on conduct policy and is an OPINION piece - and an entirely uncited one - frankly if not for that disclaimer it would be candidate for speedy deletion.

 

Just like your definition of this being 'text book griefing' is an opinion.

 

It was in fact theft of ship. That is what it was. There is no way around THAT definition of it.

 

If that theft of ships was done with intent to grief other players as opposed to just plain old theft is very much up to debate.

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@WildChild85 Where did you get your numbers? From what I hear they are grossly inflated. It sounds more like a post by a victim then it does a concerned citizen. Also to call for a ban to a large clan in beta is purely an emotional decision on your part. If this was the actual release, I would agree with you but what happens in beta stays in beta in any game genre. I have participated in Alpha's and beta's for over four decades and if this is the worse you have seen to call for a ban then you really need to play more games in these stages. But, you are allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else.....Just seems like your starting with a victim mentality to get the mob rioting. Go mine or something.

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6 hours ago, Lunchbox said:

@WildChild85 Where did you get your numbers? From what I hear they are grossly inflated. It sounds more like a post by a victim then it does a concerned citizen. Also to call for a ban to a large clan in beta is purely an emotional decision on your part. If this was the actual release, I would agree with you but what happens in beta stays in beta in any game genre. I have participated in Alpha's and beta's for over four decades and if this is the worse you have seen to call for a ban then you really need to play more games in these stages. But, you are allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else.....Just seems like your starting with a victim mentality to get the mob rioting. Go mine or something.

Whatever was in beta will be carried over into full release. No wipe. Anything you steal, exploit, get done is going to be still present after release. So please, explain to me how "it stays in beta"?

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Problem are people is still ussing the exploits why are not all fixeds and nothing happens, have this game any kind of logs? Are really devs interestet in invest time on find exploiters? The end of the road sems a wipe to every one, is alwais the easy way, punish every one for the crimes of a few.

 

Exploiters non feel any dangerous on exploit and the fest have no end. Game need some kind of public punishment to fear people a bit about exploit.

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