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WildChild85

Not Punishing Desolation was weak and poor from NQ

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About the situation:

The organization Desolation (https://community.dualthegame.com/organization/4124/) has used a bug very actively to move ships from the Safe Zones (even planets) to the pvp zone to destroy and therefore steal them. Around 300 players have lost there ships and a lot of new players with that everthing they had resulting in a big quit wave. We know, that Desolation even allows their members explicitly in their rules to use any kind of bug and exploit, which is clearly against the rules of Novaquark.

 

NQ now officially confirmed, that this organization doesn't get any punishment. So basicly this whole rules here

 are complete bullshit, because you can do whatever you want, Novaquark will not punish you.

 

If that is the way NQ wants to go, this game will die pretty quickly because all new players, that don't have the power or organizations behind them yet will quit the game very quickly.

 

In my opinion, this is a very poor and weak behavior of Novaquark and a punsh in the face for every honest player in this community.

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Just now, Haunty said:

I'd agree more if this was release and not beta, but NQ should be quicker with declaring if something is an exploit for sure.

PAID beta with persistancy. No wipes anymore. This is different. No Beta excuses for not punishing.

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I will defend NQ on this one - partially. Enough people argued for "this is fine" both on forum and discord - that i understand why the waters get so muddy that they decide not to punish people. It pisses me off too, but i do understand logic behind it. True test will be first report which will come after this announcement.

The biggest problem i see is time they needed to react to that. If this is what we are going to expect in future - so "not on the list than fine" and week or longer to add to the list - this game for long months will be trolls feast. 

 

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6 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

So basicly this whole rules here

 are complete bullshit, because you can do whatever you want, Novaquark will not punish you.

 

I feel it's valid to point out that your actual issue is not with these new rulings, but with the fact that they are not retroactively punishing the organization in question here. The rulings seem sensible to me, and the issue in question regarding stealing ships is clearly addressed, so going forward this will punished. I agree with Haunty that this is an appropriate response in a beta environment; retroactive punishment here when there was no explicit ruling does not seem warranted.

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I dont feel a lot of people argued "this is fine" it was a very very vocal minority steering the discord discussion for days on end.
 

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Yawn.

 

Has NQ even done anything about the duppers, link exploiters and mass exploiters?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that orgs warping their pvp ships and haulers around the galaxy for 1 cell at a time are a much bigger deal but hey what do I know...

 

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9 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Yawn.

 

Has NQ even done anything about the duppers, link exploiters and mass exploiters?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that orgs warping their pvp ships and haulers around the galaxy for 1 cell at a time are a much bigger deal but hey what do I know...

 

I agree, but this doesn't harm anybody directly leading to big quit waves.

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They also did optimize here ... and cleary stated for example that the use of such things could lead to consequences .

If someone used the linked container bug they had to be aware that that could get him in trouble.

 

But here additionally they harmed other players, destroyed their constructs etc.

And don't argue with "yes they should be aware that's not safe there" .. it says safe zone and i know one of them which usually flys back, but had a game crash and the decides after some tries to go to bed.
 

 

 

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Deflection from said statement with "whataboutism" only distracts from the fact stated above. It is no longer about what is in the past, but how things are being dealt with now, and in the future.

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10 minutes ago, Samlow said:

I dont feel a lot of people argued "this is fine" it was a very very vocal minority steering the discord discussion for days on end.
 

Well, it was enough of people after all. 

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It was not allowed to use bugs or exploits and it was declared that it can be punished with starting of the beta. This update of the rules was good but not nessecary for the punishment.

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1 minute ago, Elrood said:

Well, it was enough of people after all. 

I dont believe their voice is why they weren't banned tho. I think NQ had a good long discussion about where they want to be drawing the line going forward, and this was the easy way out in terms of punishment

 

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5 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

I agree, but this doesn't harm anybody directly leading to big quit waves.

Really? A carrier full of pvp ships getting warped around the galaxy dropping off ships at distant planets to snipe people as they decelerate on approach didn't make people quit?

 

I think you are severly overestimating the impact of people who lost their crappy noob ships on Alioth to those who lost them to the pvp cheese.

 

I bet that more people quit from losing their newbie speeders by lagging them into the 'no fly zone' at the markets when their FPS dropped to 0 and they couldn't stop.

 

I'm not trying to turn this into some "whataboutism" - but if we are going to apply punishments to exploits - it's all or nothing.

 

So yes - either nothing is punished or everything is. Warpsleds, links, dupes, safe zone theft, etc....

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Obviously these players who used the exploit will do so in the future if they can so I say good riddance. Bad behavior should never be rewarded at least take their stuff that was not gained by proper game mechanics. It overly obvious to most players that this was an exploit 

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No need to disrespect the victims. They didnt lose their crappy ships, they lost hours of time investment in a place where they shouldnt lose them.

With the whataboutism. It is fine to call for all exploits to get punishment in my eyes. Just that this post was about this specific case. And this case is very public and well documented,.

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9 minutes ago, Samlow said:

No need to disrespect the victims. They didnt lose their crappy ships, they lost hours of time investment in a place where they shouldnt lose them.

With the whataboutism. It is fine to call for all exploits to get punishment in my eyes. Just that this post was about this specific case. And this case is very public and well documented,.

I would have no qualms if every player who lost a ship in safe zone was reimbursed - good luck with NQ handling that.

 

I would have no qualms if players who stole ships were 'punished' but I am willing to bet that NQ doesn't even know who stole these ships.

 

Just like I bet that NQ can't find out who abused the mass or linking bugs or even duped items. They keep making threats and asking people to self report - but so far it seems to just be a case of empty threats....

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Seems a shame people would rather "run to teacher" rather than take responsibility for their own safety.  I'm talking about maneuvering other ships, which was act of clever roguery at worst, punishing those who did not take enough care to fly to safe ground.

 

DU is about making a civilisation, not making a sterile, ideal, civilisation with no crime, theft or "immoral behaviour".

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Just now, Anopheles said:

Seems a shame people would rather "run to teacher" rather than take responsibility for their own safety.  I'm talking about maneuvering other ships, which was act of clever roguery at worst, punishing those who did not take enough care to fly to safe ground.

 

DU is about making a civilisation, not making a sterile, ideal, civilisation with no crime, theft or "immoral behaviour".

Well that means let us all use bugs and exploits in the future, because who cares...

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2 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

Well that means let us all use bugs and exploits in the future, because who cares...

I never said all bugs and exploits.  I specifically mentioned one "exploit' of manoeuvring ships.

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2 minutes ago, WildChild85 said:

Well that means let us all use bugs and exploits in the future, because who cares...

That has largely been the takeaway for many who continued to use the link exploit and mass exploit after the first 'fix' failed to fix them.

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7 minutes ago, Anopheles said:

Seems a shame people would rather "run to teacher" rather than take responsibility for their own safety.  I'm talking about maneuvering other ships, which was act of clever roguery at worst, punishing those who did not take enough care to fly to safe ground.

 

DU is about making a civilisation, not making a sterile, ideal, civilisation with no crime, theft or "immoral behaviour".

This discussion is what people like you have been using as defense for what finally has been deemed an actual exploit. With that, blaming the person of an unwise action for the crime in any way is a moot point, one so far only used by those often claiming "it wasnt an exploit" or "its a grey area".

NQ gave us clarification. It IS and WAS an exploit.
As such, unless you read the discord swamp, you could not expect an unclaimed tile in a pvp disabled zone to be at risk of pvp. Especially new players. Unwise?, yes, to blame? no.

We want repeat offenders of exploits punished.

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3 minutes ago, Samlow said:

This discussion is what people like you have been using as defense for what finally has been deemed an actual exploit. With that, blaming the person of an unwise action for the crime in any way is a moot point, one so far only used by those often claiming "it wasnt an exploit" or "its a grey area".

NQ gave us clarification. It IS and WAS an exploit.
As such, unless you read the discord swamp, you could not expect an unclaimed tile in a pvp disabled zone to be at risk of pvp. Especially new players. Unwise?, yes, to blame? no.

We want repeat offenders of exploits punished.

 

IS? Yes ok. WAS? Ehhhhh........

 

In general in a legal sense actions that you took in the past that were not defined as illegal are not considered something you an be held responsible for - as they were not defined as illegal at the time you committed the acts. 

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And I can live with people that did this getting a warning this time around, but I will fight for against their efforts to get away with it.

Edit: With that, I mean getting away with staving it off as being fine.

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