Jump to content

PVP possible in "Safe Zone"


JoniAdama

Recommended Posts

I have to agree with Joni here. Pushing the envelope until it squeals (mixed metaphors etc) is the surest way to expose game breaking bugs and issues people are having with the software. 
 

but NQ have released an official statement of intent versus bug exploits... but it’s vague enough to give them leeway to do what they want, basically. 

2 minutes ago, JoniAdama said:

I really can`t believe you are saying such a bullshit. "Delaying the progression of the game" lol dude, if we don`t do stuff like this, that will never be fixed, it`s a part of development... and you are saying they banned 1 person for that. I need official announcement from NQ about this issue, otherwise i don`t believe this is exploit !

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well topically this thread is incorrect. Mechanically I am of two minds - one, yeah it sucks to have your ship moved without your consent to PvP space and destroyed. However, the mechanics used to do this are sound. Why, do you ask, easy:

 

1) You want players to remove junk from their property. So we don't want the ability to remove constructs from your land as that just means folks will grief you by parking borg cubes on your ship/base so you can't use it.

2) You want players to be able to tow other player's ships (as a "business" or as an "org function" or something similar). This is immersive and potential gameplay - AAA ship transport and towing.

3) You were offline but 1 and 2 still need to be viable as not having them would allow worse things to happen or not allow emergent gameplay

 

I don't see folks complaining about people free range mining land they haven't claimed.

I don't see folks complaining about people putting borg shells over their property as a "denial of use" effort.

 

Yes it sucks, yes it's a lesson for us all, but no, as the game mechanics were used and you did park your ship at an insecure location and it got stolen, it is not an exploit. Sadly I can't agree with the OP no matter how much I want to agree with the OP.

 

Bottom line: Sucks - yes, exploit - no.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these people here complaining, are the same people who died in eve high sec and lost their minds because they were in 'safe space'.

 

 

If I see a big fat ship on an unclaimed tile - I'm claiming that tile and stealing your ship.

 

Deal with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also of two minds.

 

Being able to 'steal' a ship is an interesting mechanic. And since you have to be afk on a tile owned by the thief, you have to be pretty unlucky for this to happen.

But at the same time a safe-zone is supposed to be well, safe..

 

Anyways the fix is probably going to be that docking is turned into an active event that you must perform from the pilot seat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

All these people here complaining, are the same people who died in eve high sec and lost their minds because they were in 'safe space'.

 

 

If I see a big fat ship on an unclaimed tile - I'm claiming that tile and stealing your ship.

 

Deal with it.

Yes! Totally agree !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

That's a big part of the issue, there is nothing to be done. It can't be dealt with. There is no recourse or retaliation possible, which is precisely why it's done. It's people who can't do actual pvp and so resort to grief tactics.

There is, you can claim territory by yourself and then mine, or just go with L sized ship so it cannot be docked on other L. Very easy, you just have to use your brain abit...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, JoniAdama said:

There is, you can claim territory by yourself and then mine, or just go with L sized ship so it cannot be docked on other L. Very easy, you just have to use your brain abit...

New players won't know about this until it either happens to them or somebody in their social circle, because it is a minority of players who visit the forums. They have been told by the game itself that the safe zone is safe and free from pvp activity. Therein lies the "exploit" or whatever word you wish to use to describe the act of bringing pvp activity to what is advertised as a non-pvp area.

 

So, people are using game mechanics in an unintended fashion to break the safe zone in such a way that they are completely protected from retaliation and it is largely newish players who will suffer the consequences.

 

Edit: forgot who op was

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

That's a big part of the issue, there is nothing to be done. It can't be dealt with. There is no recourse or retaliation possible, which is precisely why it's done. It's people who can't do actual pvp and so resort to grief tactics.

Don't log out your ship in unclaimed tiles.

 

You have now dealt with it.

 

Easy.

 

Do you have any idea how long it takes to steal a ship?

 

First of all, the territory has to be claimed and you get a 15 minute warning. You can move your ship during those 15 minutes.

 

Second even if you log in and your ship is already being hauled away to be scrapped, which in total may take quite a bit of time and is not trivial, (we need to make a pad that is big enough for your ship AND can break atmo with your ship strapped to it), you can respawn on the ship and simply fly it off. Even if they built a cage around it on the pad you can fetch it.

 

You have plenty of tools available to prevent your ship from being stolen. Failure to utilize these tools is on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Mordgier said:

Don't log out your ship in unclaimed tiles.

 

You have now dealt with it.

 

Easy.

Cool, what about every other new player who has been told by the game that it's safe to do so in the safe zone? 

 

It's just a chickenshit tactic that you and several others are trying to legitimize so you can steal while avoiding pvp in the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

Cool, what about every other new player who has been told by the game that it's safe to do so in the safe zone? 

 

It's just a chickenshit tactic that you and several others are trying to legitimize so you can steal while avoiding pvp in the process.

 

I don't believe the game tells you anywhere that you can safely leave your stuff in unclaimed territory.

 

 

Also - the 'new player' doesn't have anything worth the fuel to haul it off to pvp space. It's a non trivial task.

 

More new players have lost their ships to the "No Fly Zones" - go report those for griefing instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

Cool, what about every other new player who has been told by the game that it's safe to do so in the safe zone? 

 

It's just a chickenshit tactic that you and several others are trying to legitimize so you can steal while avoiding pvp in the process.

Let take some example here from EvE Online. Do you think game tells you that you can be blaped by pirate first time you undock from station, that there will be ganker just waiting for dumb noobs? Do you think eve tells you that you can be killed by bunch of catalysts while you mine in asteroid belt in Hi-sec ? Do eve tell tells you that if you autopilot trough a Hi-sec with freighter, that you can be blaped by 12 tornados while carrying all your ships and items in it? 

 

 

And do you think here noob loosing he’s first ship will be a big deal? I dont even think that somebody will put even effort to steal that first noobship that is nothing worth... It’s fun, unintentional mechanic that just is there, and is actually quite challening and fun. Dont see any exploits in that. Exploit is totally subjective thing. There is no official announcment from NQ about exaclly this thing. So have fun !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Elrood said:

They use duping items as main example, but I doubt it is any stretch to assume this exploit is affected by the same rules.

It IS a stretch to assume that. Everything needs to be clearly stated and written in the eula or tos otherwise it's fair game. If NQ doesn't give any feedback on this whatsoever, ppl will just continue to do it. 

Players assuming that smth falls under exploiting or not is never a good idea because this is solely up to NQ to decide. That's exactly why I said for years that NQ needs to revisit the eula and clearly state what they deem an exploit and what isn't one. Especially now in beta 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, JoniAdama said:

Let take some example here from EvE Online. Do you think game tells you that you can be blaped by pirate first time you undock from station, that there will be ganker just waiting for dumb noobs? Do you think eve tells you that you can be killed by bunch of catalysts while you mine in asteroid belt in Hi-sec ? Do eve tell tells you that if you autopilot trough a Hi-sec with freighter, that you can be blaped by 12 tornados while carrying all your ships and items in it? 

 

 

And do you think here noob loosing he’s first ship will be a big deal? I dont even think that somebody will put even effort to steal that first noobship that is nothing worth... It’s fun, unintentional mechanic that just is there, and is actually quite challening and fun. Dont see any exploits in that. Exploit is totally subjective thing. There is no official announcment from NQ about exaclly this thing. So have fun !

Comparing this game to Eve is a false equivalence. There is no assumption of safety in Eve nor advertisement of it being so.

 

Are you ready to drop the false pretense that you were the victim in your story?

 

Your arguments, like the others, are only trying to legitimize this tactic because it allows you to steal while avoiding PvP which could not be more contrary to the spirit and intent of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

 

I don't believe the game tells you anywhere that you can safely leave your stuff in unclaimed territory.

 

 

Also - the 'new player' doesn't have anything worth the fuel to haul it off to pvp space. It's a non trivial task.

 

More new players have lost their ships to the "No Fly Zones" - go report those for griefing instead.

You assume the value of the cargo has any bearing on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

You assume the value of the cargo has any bearing on it.

What? 

 

You think that people are going to bother popping down a claim to steal a crappy ship? 

 

Once again you make it sound like people are able to just click your ship into a pvp zone. 

 

The effort required is significant. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

placing a TCU for the sole purpose of carting a construct to the PVP zone is not cheating as such, but it’s clearly bending the rules in a way NQ did not intend or they would have put disclaimers on their safe zone definitions....

 

And this is pretty much the definition of an exploit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Randazzo said:

Comparing this game to Eve is a false equivalence. There is no assumption of safety in Eve nor advertisement of it being so.

 

Are you ready to drop the false pretense that you were the victim in your story?

 

Your arguments, like the others, are only trying to legitimize this tactic because it allows you to steal while avoiding PvP which could not be more contrary to the spirit and intent of the game.

"False pretense" where I am pretending ?  I told my story and have my own subjective opinion about that whole situation.  And I think that is totally legit !

"Avoiding PvP" Man I think you really don`t know what PVP means. This one is max efficieny PvP  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Randazzo said:

That's a big part of the issue, there is nothing to be done. It can't be dealt with. There is no recourse or retaliation possible, which is precisely why it's done. It's people who can't do actual pvp and so resort to grief tactics.

It can be dealt with.  Don't leave your ship on a tile you or your org does not own.  

 

Park it at a nearby market if you have to.  It isn't a big deal... Just think.

 

poor planning leads to poor performance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exploit.
Clear and limpid.
It is not a bug. It is not a glitch. But an exploit yes, and it has already been amply explained why.
The "safe zone" must be "safe. It is not" safe zone but be careful ".
It's "safe zone" and that's it.

Sanboxes have always been full of these things and will continue to be. There will always be those who play by the rules and those who play by exploiting the rules.

Regarding this specific act: it is useless to talk about it. Many answers are only trolling. 

Report and hope they change the mechanics as soon as possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.

 

Second, it was already stated on the DU Press Discord that just because NQ is not talking about exploits and punishments, it’s not going to happen. They where very clear that they are going to take action against players abusing game mechanics, specially duping items and such, but not limited to that only. The information is there in black and white, and they even stated that there will be a general public announcement soon enough once they close the loopholes.

 

Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.

 

And last, just because you can do something in a game doesn’t mean that is legal, some stuff is not intended and it’s simply either a bug or an exploit. And if you find it, stop using and reported for review or continue to abuse it and face the consequences of your actions later, it’s up to you. NQ has been very clear that the safe zone is just that, a safe zone devoted of any PvP where people can be safe to leave their items. I’m all for PvP and I can’t wait for it to be worked on and expanded but this is not PvP at all. People found a way to circumvent a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage, which is the very definition of what an exploit is. Territory PvP or actions are not part of the game right now, but like I already mention here before, there are 4 ways to get around this that allows players to steal ships, or destroy Satic/Dynamic/Space cores and steal everything anyone has, even on Sanctuary Moon or the markets or inside safe space which again, has been stated very clear to be safe areas that people can leave their stuff.

 

I’m not here to tell anyone to do or not do something, if you think you are right, go right ahead, just don’t come crying when actions are taken and the game changes for the worst. We can’t discuss moderation actions against players on this forums either, but believe me, action has been taken already against some players that continue to circumvent game mechanics for their advantage. Just go to the regular DU discord and ask in general chat, people will tell you.

 

I’m also 100% sure that what the OP think happens wasn’t really what happened. The tile was claim to be able to use a current exploit, because of the weight of the ship itself and the cargo weight, because His ship, M Core according to him, wasn’t maneuvered into an L ship to take it away to the PvP zone at all, it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile, and that took the 15 minutes to claim the tile and maybe another 5 minutes to destroy and repair the core and maybe any red elements necessary to fly it away, that is it. I’m all up for PvP and piracy but this wasn’t any of that. I want the game to evolved like everyone else but not based on exploits.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Iorail said:

Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.

 

Second, it was already stated on the DU Press Discord that just because NQ is not talking about exploits and punishments, it’s not going to happen. They where very clear that they are going to take action against players abusing game mechanics, specially duping items and such, but not limited to that only. The information is there in black and white, and they even stated that there will be a general public announcement soon enough once they close the loopholes.

 

Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.

 

And last, just because you can do something in a game doesn’t mean that is legal, some stuff is not intended and it’s simply either a bug or an exploit. And if you find it, stop using and reported for review or continue to abuse it and face the consequences of your actions later, it’s up to you. NQ has been very clear that the safe zone is just that, a safe zone devoted of any PvP where people can be safe to leave their items. I’m all for PvP and I can’t wait for it to be worked on and expanded but this is not PvP at all. People found a way to circumvent a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage, which is the very definition of what an exploit is. Territory PvP or actions are not part of the game right now, but like I already mention here before, there are 4 ways to get around this that allows players to steal ships, or destroy Satic/Dynamic/Space cores and steal everything anyone has, even on Sanctuary Moon or the markets or inside safe space which again, has been stated very clear to be safe areas that people can leave their stuff.

 

I’m not here to tell anyone to do or not do something, if you think you are right, go right ahead, just don’t come crying when actions are taken and the game changes for the worst. We can’t discuss moderation actions against players on this forums either, but believe me, action has been taken already against some players that continue to circumvent game mechanics for their advantage. Just go to the regular DU discord and ask in general chat, people will tell you.

 

I’m also 100% sure that what the OP think happens wasn’t really what happened. The tile was claim to be able to use a current exploit, because of the weight of the ship itself and the cargo weight, because His ship, M Core according to him, wasn’t maneuvered into an L ship to take it away to the PvP zone at all, it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile, and that took the 15 minutes to claim the tile and maybe another 5 minutes to destroy and repair the core and maybe any red elements necessary to fly it away, that is it. I’m all up for PvP and piracy but this wasn’t any of that. I want the game to evolved like everyone else but not based on exploits.

 

 

>Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.

 

Very interesting opinion - perhaps you should listen to NQ live streams more where they constantly talk about EVE and how they draw a lot from it.

 

> it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile

 

Yeah and pigs fly. If that is indeed what happened - sure exploit - bad bad. Whatever.

 

 

 

>Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.

 

What you are doing here is making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. 

 

If I am allowed to claim a tile and move constructs within it, there is no logical reason to believe that I cannot claim a tile for the sole purpose of manipulating the constructs within that tile. It's not an instant action. There is a 15 minute warning - and plenty of opportunities after the fact the recover your ship.

 

If I am allowed to move constructs into docks, there is no reason for me to assume that this is not acceptable.

 

 

Once again - do not leave large ships in unclaimed tiles. That is it. This isn't hard. I have never left my ship in an unclaimed tile when I logged off. You too can do this.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...