New Player Experience is bad because of distance to free tiles

[Zamiel7]

21 hours ago, Mordgier said:

 

For example, Sanctuary as a whole is a trap because you cannot mine unclaimed tiles and it's not hard to mine out your own tile. So newbies end up clicking 20L rocks for hours when instead had the game told them to go set up a claim on Alioth they would be far better off. Oh but now they don't want to rebase in Alioth because they built their factory on Sanctuary...MOVE IT

 

This point about Sanctuary is spot on. It doesn't make a lot of sense that the game starts players on Alioth, asks them to move to Sanctuary to finish the tutorial, and then the mechanics of the game essentially force them to either move back to Alioth or another planet if they want to progress at a reasonable pace. It would make a lot more sense to start players on Sanctuary, have them complete the basic tutorial of the game there, and then have that basic intro conclude on one of the Districts of Alioth where they can either complete the rest of the available tutorials or forge out on their own.

 

Sanctuary is a deadend. There is currently no reason to be there other than the game telling you to go there, but it could have some value as the literal starting place for new players who are just trying to learn the basic mechanics. It just doesn't make sense to move players there if they aren't starting there.

[Frigidman]

2 minutes ago, Zamiel7 said:

It would make a lot more sense to start players on Sanctuary, have them complete the basic tutorial of the game there, and then have that basic intro conclude on one of the Districts of Alioth where they can either complete the rest of the available tutorials or forge out on their own.

This Exactly!

 

It was our thought as well after having completed the tutorial and ending there, and then we realized .... hmm ... we should move all this back to Alioth and just make "Home" there to launch out from.

 

Alioth as well could have more of the advanced tutorials (the military, organization, and industrial schools). Keeping those off and out of the Sanctuary districts... keeping Sanctuary truly the place for people to get their feet wet with the basics of simple mining and building to learn how to exist.

 

They could even then go so far, as when you place your first real TCU, the SCU you placed is removed 1 week later, abandoning any and all things left there for newbs to hunt and pick over (if you happened to leave anything behind).

 

 

[Aaron Cain]

Good point untill Player vs Player ground combat kicks in at alioth and fresh players are just shot down after leaving the arc zones

 

[Elrood]

15 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

Good point untill Player vs Player ground combat kicks in at alioth and fresh players are just shot down after leaving the arc zones

 

You may be surprised... as noone know if and how much of alioth will be pvp zone.
Unless of course you have some insight knowledge, better than last JC interviews. 

[Mordgier]

1 hour ago, Elrood said:

You may be surprised... as noone know if and how much of alioth will be pvp zone.
Unless of course you have some insight knowledge, better than last JC interviews. 

Honestly that was my biggest frustration with the interview.

 

JC needs to give players clear direction NOW on where is and isn't safe forever. It seems that he himself does't have his mind made up.

 

This is a huge issue - we have people who are building up on sanc because they are expecting Alioth to go pvp. These people are at a massive disadvantage from Alioth based players because Sanc players must haul all their ore in while Alioth players fly a few grids out and dig out much of what they need.

 

If it turns out that Alioth goes pvp, the players who built on Alioth expecting it to remain safe are salty.

If it turns out that Alioth stays pve, the players who built on Sanc have wasted days and tons of space fuel hauling ore from Alioth to Sanc just to keep their production running.

[Zamiel7]

5 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Honestly that was my biggest frustration with the interview.

 

JC needs to give players clear direction NOW on where is and isn't safe forever. It seems that he himself does't have his mind made up.

 

This is a huge issue - we have people who are building up on sanc because they are expecting Alioth to go pvp. These people are at a massive disadvantage from Alioth based players because Sanc players must haul all their ore in while Alioth players fly a few grids out and dig out much of what they need.

 

If it turns out that Alioth goes pvp, the players who built on Alioth expecting it to remain safe are salty.

If it torus out that Alioth stays pve, the players who built on Sanc have wasted days and tons of space fuel hauling ore from Alioth to Sanc just to keep their production running.

It's for this reason that I honestly think it's a good idea to just keep Alioth free of PvP, and this is coming from someone for who PvP is the top interest/priority. Honestly, I'd even be okay with the current safe zone that includes Madis and Thades remaining free of PvP. The planets outside of the safe zone are currently better for finding resources (especially higher tier ore) and when things like asteroid mining and such are introduced, there will be even more reasons to travel outside of the safe zone.

 

But, this isn't (yet another) topic about PvP or the safe zone, so I'll leave it at that.

[Mordgier]

7 minutes ago, Zamiel7 said:

It's for this reason that I honestly think it's a good idea to just keep Alioth free of PvP, and this is coming from someone for who PvP is the top interest/priority. Honestly, I'd even be okay with the current safe zone that includes Madis and Thades remaining free of PvP. The planets outside of the safe zone are currently better for finding resources (especially higher tier ore) and when things like asteroid mining and such are introduced, there will be even more reasons to travel outside of the safe zone.

 

But, this isn't (yet another) topic about PvP or the safe zone, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I don't even see this as a pvp vs pve topic. 

 

My main focus is pvp. I want this game to have flourishing pvp areas full of reasons to go there and full of risk. I love the rush of pvp and I don't think DU will be complete with out it.

 

At the same time I fully understand that to thrive this game needs safe areas where people can play minecraft in space. 

 

I want players to go to pvp areas because they are lured there by tasty ores not because the area they built suddenly became hostile.

 

Ultimately this uncertainty about where we should be building is driving people away and creating tons of org drama. Our own org has spent days bickering about investing into our space base, sanc base or moon bases because we just don't know which is best to invest in. Sure the moon bases is easiest to build up - but what if it becomes a pvp area? Sanc is the hardest, but safe forever for sure and the space base in a complete unknown....

 

 

[Frigidman]

Well, on the side topic about if Alioth (or any of the current safe zone) suddenly becomes PVP, I can assure you the loss of subscriptions will outweigh the gain of any new subscriptions because of that change. So as a business decision, it would be in their best interest to leave the 'safe zones' as they are, and simply expand the universe with more systems that are hostile with greater rewards and reasons to venture to them.

 

As it stands now, this game is 'one system'. Hardly the "Universe" they tout it as. Expanding outward, to many systems, is what they should focus on... not cutting back on what exists and alienating a chunk of their playerbase for no good reason than to troll their own customers.

 

[Zamiel7]

6 minutes ago, Frigidman said:

Well, on the side topic about if Alioth (or any of the current safe zone) suddenly becomes PVP, I can assure you the loss of subscriptions will outweigh the gain of any new subscriptions because of that change. So as a business decision, it would be in their best interest to leave the 'safe zones' as they are, and simply expand the universe with more systems that are hostile with greater rewards and reasons to venture to them.

 

As it stands now, this game is 'one system'. Hardly the "Universe" they tout it as. Expanding outward, to many systems, is what they should focus on... not cutting back on what exists and alienating a chunk of their playerbase for no good reason than to troll their own customers.

 

So much this. As potentially entertaining as it would be to watch the current established bases suddenly become warzones and get caught up in that rush, I think it would burn far too many people.

[Anopheles]

Sanc was probably put there to split the players to help with lag at markets.  Didn't work, mid.

[figuah]

Lets say we colonize Mars, first explores go there and everything works out fine, few more trips in and the society grows, you are not on the priority list because you did not bother signing up for the mission soon enough, you get there and you are far from the main hub...do you go back home ? 

 

look, this game is not for everyone and people just claim what they get, there were others before us who claimed closer to hubs, we came in late and had to travel 25km+ but so what, we start from the bottom and work our way up the ladder, this isn't paytowin where you can instantly get to the top, i don't want this game to become too easy and nerfed just because people want to get everything handed to them on a silver platter, if you don't like the game...quit

 

easy.

[BaconofWar]

Long distance travel to "free" areas teaches players how to fly a hovercraft, which is good. It also teaches them repair, etc. If they pay attention they'll also learn some basic ship component mechanics.

[michaelk]

9 minutes ago, figuah said:

...this game is not for everyone and people just claim what they get, there were others before us who claimed closer to hubs, we came in late and had to travel 25km+ but so what, we start from the bottom and work our way up the ladder, this isn't paytowin where you can instantly get to the top, i don't want this game to become too easy and nerfed just because people want to get everything handed to them on a silver platter, if you don't like the game...quit

 

easy.

There's zero chance that the game will be sustainable long-term if everyone that gets turned off by ever-increasing travel (as their first impressions) "just quits". 

 

Please understand that we need some level of casual player to sustain the game. That means understanding that new players will be going back and forth to the market often as they discover how to build industry and create ships. If you make that mind-numbingly boring, people will "just quit".

 

It isn't like going back and forth in a hovercraft or aircraft is actually difficult, it's just time-consuming. Monotony isn't the same as difficulty...it's more a measurement of how much free time you have vs. how skilled you are...Nerfing monotony isn't "handing people everything on a silver platter".  

 

It isn't good when casual players "just quit".

 

It means less hardware available for everyone else. Who do you actually think is going to pay for those massive space battles and big cities? Hardcore players on the game for hours every day? Subscriptions aren't based on usage...someone that plays the game less but pays just the same is NQ's best customer. They will be the ones footing the bill when hardcore players organize en masse. 

 

If everyone annoyed with ever-increasing travel at the start of the game quits, good luck sustaining a server load that will increase exponentially as players begin to organize...

[Mordgier]

17 minutes ago, michaelk said:

There's zero chance that the game will be sustainable long-term if everyone that gets turned off by ever-increasing travel (as their first impressions) "just quits". 

 

Please understand that we need some level of casual player to sustain the game. That means understanding that new players will be going back and forth to the market often as they discover how to build industry and create ships. If you make that mind-numbingly boring, people will "just quit".

 

It isn't like going back and forth in a hovercraft or aircraft is actually difficult, it's just time-consuming. Monotony isn't the same as difficulty...it's more a measurement of how much free time you have vs. how skilled you are...Nerfing monotony isn't "handing people everything on a silver platter".  

 

It isn't good when casual players "just quit".

 

It means less hardware available for everyone else. Who do you actually think is going to pay for those massive space battles and big cities? Hardcore players on the game for hours every day? Subscriptions aren't based on usage...someone that plays the game less but pays just the same is NQ's best customer. They will be the ones footing the bill when hardcore players organize en masse. 

 

If everyone annoyed with ever-increasing travel at the start of the game quits, good luck sustaining a server load that will increase exponentially as players begin to organize...

 

Warp drives travel pretty damn fast  - for a price.

 

Everything you describe can be sorted by joining an org - and that is the direction the game pushes you anyway.

 

If someone chooses to be a space hermit - then they shouldn't be surprised that being a solo space hermit ain't easy.

 

Every thing you say is also true for EVE where you would spend hours warping around and god forbid you went through a lowsec shortcut....