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Initial thoughts of a new player


Maxnano

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having fun so far, not what i expected but its early i guess. just gona brain dump some stuff here. been playing mmo's for 20+ years.

 

1) Was constantly out of nanopack space.  While crafting the basics for making cargo containers, which takes to long i was harvesting the rocks around me. i was constantly full from harvesting and waiting for stuff to build while having a full inv. only option was to alt tab out for a bit and do other stuff while waiting.  The Balance here is off. either speed up the crafting of the xs and maybe s cargo containers.

 

2) First core i built was a dynamic xs, by mistake. had a load of cargo containers attached to it. ( attempt at base platform)  when i realised the error i made a S static core and discovered i wouldnt find a way to change my base platform construct to a static, so i started building a new one.  I then discovered that i couldnt move the M cargo container i bought to the new static platform base. or delete it and recover it.

 

I think we need to be able to move plaved elements between constructs.

 

3) imho the game needs a starting path that isnt 100% forced to build and design stuff. In eve for example, most ppl do build but they dont start that way. exploration and combat against npc's should have a little more focus and a possible route to get into the game without becomming an Architect first.  maybe ive misunderstood the intentions of the game but i thought it was a bit more "no mans sky" than "space engineers"  more progression options = much larger potential player base. As is now, its a game for hardcore builders looking for complexity. ofc its early yet.

 

4) risk vs reward.   remember the first time you played minecraft, the sun goes down and you franticly start trying to build shelter from everything that goes bump in the night, to then step outside at dawn and hear Ssssssssss  Boom!    the game needs more survival elements imho, food, drink, water , air.   Dangerous NPC's to keep you on edge. compared to what you guys have achieved so far, it wouldnt be hard to implement. and AI npc's can provide a pathway for the explorers, fighters, traders to make a living and progress.

 

5) Consider adding a Qualirt of ore / material, that flows through to quality levels of produced elements that affect the stats of the element. adds a whole new level of gameplay in finding the best possible quality of materials to make the best quality gear. which will help the builders differentiate their wares from their competitors and allow "Brands"  yes i played SWG ?

 

nice job so far, espcially with the precision aspects of the code. but maybe needs a bit more time spent on "what will make it fun"

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1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

1) Was constantly out of nanopack space.  While crafting the basics for making cargo containers, which takes to long i was harvesting the rocks around me. i was constantly full from harvesting and waiting for stuff to build while having a full inv. only option was to alt tab out for a bit and do other stuff while waiting.  The Balance here is off. either speed up the crafting of the xs and maybe s cargo containers.

 

The early game is a bit slow, but the tutorial should have had you buy an S cargo container and container linking / link as active inventory is a wonderful thing. You should have funds for a few of them so cargo space is not that big of a problem if you manage them right.

 

1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

I think we need to be able to move placed elements between constructs.

Agreed. I'd also like to see linking elements between constructs.

 

1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

exploration and combat against npc's should have a little more focus and a possible route to get into the game without becoming an Architect first.

There are no npcs yet, and I think npc pirates/etc won't be a thing.

 

1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

but i thought it was a bit more "no mans sky"

No man's sky also has a lot of resource grinding, especially to build a good sized base.

 

1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

the game needs more survival elements

Not that kind of game. Check the F1 help intro sometime.. it's not going to be a basic survival game, as your suit provides all the necessities of life.

 

1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

Consider adding a Qualirt of ore / material, that flows through to quality levels of produced elements that affect the stats of the element.

Due to the automated production of materials and components, all production is of the best quality. We aren't manual blacksmiths / crafters learning how to do that.

 

You can, however, train skills that affect the stats of placed elements.

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2 hours ago, Maxnano said:

having fun so far, not what i expected but its early i guess. just gona brain dump some stuff here. been playing mmo's for 20+ years.

 

1) Was constantly out of nanopack space.  While crafting the basics for making cargo containers, which takes to long i was harvesting the rocks around me. i was constantly full from harvesting and waiting for stuff to build while having a full inv. only option was to alt tab out for a bit and do other stuff while waiting.  The Balance here is off. either speed up the crafting of the xs and maybe s cargo containers.

 

2) First core i built was a dynamic xs, by mistake. had a load of cargo containers attached to it. ( attempt at base platform)  when i realised the error i made a S static core and discovered i wouldnt find a way to change my base platform construct to a static, so i started building a new one.  I then discovered that i couldnt move the M cargo container i bought to the new static platform base. or delete it and recover it.

 

I think we need to be able to move plaved elements between constructs.

 

3) imho the game needs a starting path that isnt 100% forced to build and design stuff. In eve for example, most ppl do build but they dont start that way. exploration and combat against npc's should have a little more focus and a possible route to get into the game without becomming an Architect first.  maybe ive misunderstood the intentions of the game but i thought it was a bit more "no mans sky" than "space engineers"  more progression options = much larger potential player base. As is now, its a game for hardcore builders looking for complexity. ofc its early yet.

 

4) risk vs reward.   remember the first time you played minecraft, the sun goes down and you franticly start trying to build shelter from everything that goes bump in the night, to then step outside at dawn and hear Ssssssssss  Boom!    the game needs more survival elements imho, food, drink, water , air.   Dangerous NPC's to keep you on edge. compared to what you guys have achieved so far, it wouldnt be hard to implement. and AI npc's can provide a pathway for the explorers, fighters, traders to make a living and progress.

 

5) Consider adding a Qualirt of ore / material, that flows through to quality levels of produced elements that affect the stats of the element. adds a whole new level of gameplay in finding the best possible quality of materials to make the best quality gear. which will help the builders differentiate their wares from their competitors and allow "Brands"  yes i played SWG ?

 

nice job so far, espcially with the precision aspects of the code. but maybe needs a bit more time spent on "what will make it fun"

Got to love it when players join a game and within a couple of days decide that they know exactly what the game needs, NPC's and AI baddies.  To answer your points

1/ This is a minor issue that only effects players very early in the game at the moment, I personally think all players should just be given a ship with a bloody xs container on it for all the hassle it causes

2/ You can recover everything using the ALT buttons, although the container has to be empty.  You cannot link between / move stuff between cores, that is not going to change.

3/ You have joined the beta of a player made universe, we are the people who are building the things for people to do who join the game

4/ This is not a survival game, it is not a pve game (in terms of mobs etc) the focus is on players on player interactions.  When pvp is fully implemented you will get your chance for a bit of action.......

5/ What they really need to different tiers of ores which you can only find on different planets around the galaxy which you can then use to make a wide range of elements which can also be improved via an extensive talents system (which not only effect elements used but also placed).  Great idea, why dont you suggest it to the devs.

What will make it 'fun' is completely subjective, I am having more fun now in DU than any game for the last 20 years, none of your suggestions will make the game even slightly more 'fun' for me.   Please do not confuse what you enjoy with the vision of the game.

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Just now, Emptiness said:

Why not?

You cant link between cores because it is massively OP for obvious reasons, you cant transfer between cores because that is the way the game works, it is either a gameplay choice by the devs or it is a technical decision due to the level of overhead required to do the job.  Someone wanting it changed purely because they struggled to understand basic resource management early game is not a reason to push for a change like this.

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29 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

You cant link between cores because it is massively OP for obvious reasons, you cant transfer between cores because that is the way the game works, it is either a gameplay choice by the devs or it is a technical decision due to the level of overhead required to do the job.  Someone wanting it changed purely because they struggled to understand basic resource management early game is not a reason to push for a change like this.

then you need to be able to upgrade cores

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25 minutes ago, Maxnano said:

then you need to be able to upgrade cores

No you dont, you make another core and transfer the site, logistics and planning is all part of the game.  You can have multiple cores for both players and orgs, plan how you are going to use them.   Please dont confuse NEED with what you WANT, two very different things.

14 minutes ago, Maxnano said:

are you saying there is no intended wipe before it goes live ?

You really should research the games you buy in a bit more detail, the beta is in all intense and purposes a full soft launch, we are playing the game.  The devs have said they will try and avoid any further wipes if at all possible, with the only planned asset wipe coming when they update the planet tech and players will receive all assets back as magic blueprints to replace.

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4 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

Or it simply may not yet be an implemented feature but secretly planned.

Why would they make M and L cores obsolete? Every element in the game fits in an S core, pretty much. S cores are easier to get hold of, place and are more versatile than M cores. An ORG is effectively unlimited in how many cores they can place, and anyone can become their own ORG.

 

Just because you want something doesn't mean it's going to happen.

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Hello, OP

 

I agree with most everything you said, besides the survival element thing. You will see a lot of people are against  NPC/PVE content for some reason. However, I believe that the "emergent content" this game emphasizes is very lacking, and may improve eventually. Don't forget about the baffling game design decisions!

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31 minutes ago, Treelessrain said:

Hello, OP

 

I agree with most everything you said, besides the survival element thing. You will see a lot of people are against  NPC/PVE content for some reason. However, I believe that the "emergent content" this game emphasizes is very lacking, and may improve eventually. Don't forget about the baffling game design decisions!

This is the game they pitched. Why do you feel so important and entitled to come here and tell the devs how to build their game when they explicitly pitched their vision. We literally dont care you if you leave or not. Not every game Is for everyone. PVE makes me want to bang my head against concrete until I've lost all motor functions. But guess what? I dont go to heavily based pvp games and go on the forums and go "why no open world pvp? Booooo". Go find another game that suits your needs, that's how life works and it's how normal adults function.  As moose said, besides eve, no other game has gave me as much enjoyment, and admittedly some of that is the draw of "what's to come" I swear to fucking christ I'll be here to shut down every shitty idea that you people come up with trying to ruin this game. Research the god damn game before you buy.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

This is the game they pitched. Why do you feel so important and entitled to come here and tell the devs how to build their game when they explicitly pitched their vision. We literally dont care you if you leave or not. Not every game Is for everyone. PVE makes me want to bang my head against concrete until I've lost all motor functions. But guess what? I dont go to heavily based pvp games and go on the forums and go "why no open world pvp? Booooo". Go find another game that suits your needs, that's how life works and it's how normal adults function.  As moose said, besides eve, no other game has gave me as much enjoyment, and admittedly some of that is the draw of "what's to come" I swear to fucking christ I'll be here to shut down every shitty idea that you people come up with trying to ruin this game. Research the god damn game before you buy.

 

Wow... Just because I like this game does not mean I cannot criticize it. With that being said I still think pve should be implemented eventually,  I am not saying they should get rid of pvp-quite the contrary actually. Anyone thanks for proving my point- enjoy your week!

 

OP- You will encounter this attitude a lot on the subreddit and the forums- so keep that in mind!

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7 minutes ago, Treelessrain said:

 

Wow... Just because I like this game does not mean I cannot criticize it. With that being said I still think pve should be implemented eventually,  I am not saying they should get rid of pvp-quite the contrary actually. Anyone thanks for proving my point- enjoy your week!

 

OP- You will encounter this attitude a lot on the subreddit and the forums- so keep that in mind!

Imagine If you backed a game in alpha kickstarter.  And the devs said they had these big plans for PVE. Then during beta I came into the forums and said "they need to get rid of PVE and make it pvp only". Do you understand now? Please use some critical thinking. 

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17 hours ago, Treelessrain said:

 

Wow... Just because I like this game does not mean I cannot criticize it. With that being said I still think pve should be implemented eventually,  I am not saying they should get rid of pvp-quite the contrary actually. Anyone thanks for proving my point- enjoy your week!

 

OP- You will encounter this attitude a lot on the subreddit and the forums- so keep that in mind!

Yep i noticed the bad attitudes allready. started my "kill on sight" list lol. not all self important wana be eliteists tho

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17 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Imagine If you backed a game in alpha kickstarter.  And the devs said they had these big plans for PVE. Then during beta I came into the forums and said "they need to get rid of PVE and make it pvp only". Do you understand now? Please use some critical thinking. 

no one said anything about getting rid of anything, just adding. 

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2 minutes ago, Maxnano said:

Yep i noticed the bad attitudes allready. started my "kill on sight" list lol. not all self important wana be eliteists tho

Shit no, really!?!?!  Where can I retract my previous statement....... lol KOS list, do you have backup then?

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On 9/18/2020 at 5:13 AM, Maxnano said:

yes i played SWG ?

Servers 2nd best Shipwright here... I can attest to spending hours every morning scanning planets for the rare 999/999 random spawns! ... how much I loved it ... I'm grown old and braindead and may not be able to handle such again. But having such a system return to the gaming world for those who have the energy to keep up with it, would be a pretty unique (re)addition to DU.

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53 minutes ago, Maxnano said:

no one said anything about getting rid of anything, just adding. 

So at the very earliest of stages of development.  With a SMALL team of devs. You want them to completely switch focus to PVE which could take years to properly develop? Yea sorry, it would be getting rid of something. Development resources are quite finite.  Stop thinking devs can just snap a finger and add something to a complex game. 

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1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

Yep i noticed the bad attitudes allready. started my "kill on sight" list lol. not all self important wana be eliteists tho

That's awesome. The fact you can make your personal choice to have a KOS list. That's the whole point of this game. Player choices.

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11 hours ago, Maxnano said:

no one said anything about getting rid of anything, just adding. 

PvP as it has been advertised in DU is more fully stated as being "pervasive, free-for-all PvP". So in its very conception, adding PvE content erases that first adjective: PvP would not be pervasive any more.

 

Adding a whole PvE ecosystem to the game would, as well as imposing an unsupportable load on the team would, in its turn, destroy the PvP aspect of the game. PvP needs drivers. Reasons to fight. or it's just an arcade shooter. There need to be things to fight over. In CoD, it's flags. In DU it'll be resources. If there are resources in a PvE ecosystem there will be no need to PvP, and the only PvP will become random pointless gankage. And there will be no way to hunt down and avenge yourself on thieves and traitors, so the game will have to protect you from them, too. Not that there will be any point stealing stuff, because it'll all just be falling out of the PvE ecosystem.

 

Are there any MMO games which successfully mix open-world PvP with a protected PvE ecosystem? I'm struggling to think of one. They all either have instanced PvP or separate PvP servers. Neither is going to be an option on a single shard server with no instanced content.

 

So in effect, you are  asking for the removal of PvP, because that would be the end result of what you are asking for.

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1 hour ago, BaconofWar said:

Actually "Space Raiders" are planned to be in game - it's an achievement to kill one.

Do you know what they are? Does anyone? Could be a designation given to someone who pays the cost to attack your Territory in TW, for all I know.

 

Is there a PvE section in the Achievements screen I missed?

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7 hours ago, Kezzle said:

PvP as it has been advertised in DU is more fully stated as being "pervasive, free-for-all PvP". So in its very conception, adding PvE content erases that first adjective: PvP would not be pervasive any more.

 

Adding a whole PvE ecosystem to the game would, as well as imposing an unsupportable load on the team would, in its turn, destroy the PvP aspect of the game. PvP needs drivers. Reasons to fight. or it's just an arcade shooter. There need to be things to fight over. In CoD, it's flags. In DU it'll be resources. If there are resources in a PvE ecosystem there will be no need to PvP, and the only PvP will become random pointless gankage. And there will be no way to hunt down and avenge yourself on thieves and traitors, so the game will have to protect you from them, too. Not that there will be any point stealing stuff, because it'll all just be falling out of the PvE ecosystem.

 

Are there any MMO games which successfully mix open-world PvP with a protected PvE ecosystem? I'm struggling to think of one. They all either have instanced PvP or separate PvP servers. Neither is going to be an option on a single shard server with no instanced content.

 

So in effect, you are  asking for the removal of PvP, because that would be the end result of what you are asking for.

Eve online does it very well. and the PVE aspect is very often a catalyst for pvp to take place.  

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