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Guest Zamiel7

*Exploit* Placing Core on Another's Construct

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Guest Zamiel7

Hi everyone,

 

First off, I just want to say that my friends and I have very much been enjoying Dual Universe so far! We're former EVE players from way back, and the single shard, open-ended nature of Dual Universe really appeals to us. That, and the core gameplay mechanics really have an awful lot of potential. We're looking forward to playing this game as it grows even more! With all that in mind, I do want to report an interesting exploit/bug that my friends and I have encountered, as I've not seen it mentioned on the forums after some looking (apologies if it's been addressed).Apparently, it is possible to place a core on another player's construct in such a way that it cannot be removed or interacted with in any way by the construct's owner.

 

Case in point: During a mining expedition today, we discovered an XS Dynamic Core on our Small Dynamic Construct that we use as a hauler. The XS core was placed inside of our ship in the back so as to be less likely noticed by us. A little bit of tinkering revealed that the XS core was in fact attached to our small ship's building grid. After looking at who owned the XS core, my friend recalled that earlier in the day he had seen this same player moving around our ship while it was parked on Madis. The application of doing this was immediately apparent to us: this player would effectively always know the location of our ship, with his core functioning as a kind of tracking device, allowing him to potentially ambush us in PvP space or know the location of our ship to repair and steal it should it crash anywhere. We also theorized that it could potentially allow him to create a blueprint of our ship's design, but we can't confirm if that would work. In principle, this is actually a pretty clever trick to do, so we definitely give credit to the person for coming up with the idea. That being said, this is clearly not an intended gameplay mechanic, especially because of what we had to do to solve the issue.

 

Once we realized it was there, we knew that the only way for us to get it off would be to destroy it. Sure, we could have trucked the ship out to a PvP zone in space and shot it, but that would have been tedious, dangerous, and unnecessarily complicated. Our next idea was modify the design of the ship slightly, and then crash it into the ground attempting to destroy the XS core. After three attempts at doing this, it seemed as though the XS core would not take impact damage. We then decided, screw it, we'll just blueprint the ship, completely disassemble it, and then make it again; however, even after taking every single part of the ship off so that only the Small core remained, we could not pick up the core on account of the XS core still being attached to it. Actually, moving the Small core around in build mode dragged the XS core around with it, maintaining its position and orientation based on where it was hidden on our ship.  At this point, we just abandoned the Small core and sealed both cores inside some voxels on our territory, so that the person that placed the core would have to eventually abandon his XS core (it's effectively worthless, but we can be spiteful 😀).

 

So yeah, this is clearly not an intended game mechanic; the ability to place an XS core on someone else's ship, especially in the Safe Zone, has the potential to give a disproportional advantage to the party that places the core, one that cannot be adequately countered or really addressed in any kind of reasonable way by the owner of the construct. I'm sure that this will be addressed in time, but in the meantime, I wanted to try to give players a heads up: if you see someone snooping around your ship, be aware that they might try to do something like this! My friends and I are really looking forward to PvP, honestly, but we'd rather not get griefed by an exploit.

 

 

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While it's a good catch, I'm not sure publicising an exploit like this is quite how NQ would like you to deal with it. I hope you have submitted a bug report via the 'usual channels'...

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if the core is on your territory, you will be able to maneuver the xs core to remove it from your ship.

 

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First up, not sure why ANYONE think that posting a big *EXPLOIT* message on a public forum is anything other than a big invite for asshats to copy the exploit but there you go.  I actually think it is quite a clever idea, similar to stowing away on a ship, the issue is there is not much counter to it.  All they seem to have done is docked a ship onto yours (not sure it is anything more complex than that), the issue is that the game doesnt grant rights to the docked ship to the owner of the ship that it is docked on.  This should happen automatically, if you dock on a ship, you should hand over the rights to manoeuvre the ship to the owner of the ship you dock on.  That way if this happens then the ship owner could simple move the docked ship off.

 

Going to do some testing later to see how easy it is to dock on core that i do not own.

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IMO docking in general needs to be deliberate and consensual, maybe have an RDMS permission with it.

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While it's a valid point that posting about an exploit does potentially invite others to copy it, I don't think discussing it in the open is a bad idea. This is a beta and issues like this ought to be transparent. If exploits are only known by a few people, it gives them an inordinate advantage over the majority of players. Getting it out in the open might invite copycats, but it also makes it more likely the issue will be addressed in a timely manner. My only regret is that I don't have a more detailed explanation of exactly how the person did it. If it was docking mechanics at play here, I'm not entirely sure how they managed to stick the core to our ship other than manipulating it in build mode, but I can say that we were unable to interact with the core in any meaningful way to remove it, but I suppose we didn't technically try everything to get it off.

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as long as you cant put player a's core within player b's core grid, there should be no exploit, moving a small ship into a bay/garage of friend/orgs is different, this needs disabling of build mode.

i personally want to be able put a static encased to a dynamic to have industry on the go:P

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This exploit is known. I Identified it and reported it before beta started. 

 

There is no positive point in publishing a game breaking bug. 

Sharing bugs is even a bannable ofence.......... 

There is a proper way to report bugs, available in the game menu. 

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the correct behavior would be to report the exploit without making it public.

But it is also true that it is an exploit that can become very dangerous for those who suffer it.
It is not a mechanic that gives a passive advantage to a single player such as "duplicate items" or "gather more resources". It can actively damage the gameplay of one or more players.
So, in this specific case, I find it right that the community is - at least - informed

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2 hours ago, Haunty said:

IMO docking in general needs to be deliberate and consensual, maybe have an RDMS permission with it.

Then how would public space stations work?  Unless someone create a "flight control" lua script, which would allow you to request perms, now THAT might work.  Would need lua to be able to edit RDMS but I think that is needed anyway for automated security.

1 hour ago, Zamiel7 said:

While it's a valid point that posting about an exploit does potentially invite others to copy it, I don't think discussing it in the open is a bad idea. This is a beta and issues like this ought to be transparent. If exploits are only known by a few people, it gives them an inordinate advantage over the majority of players. Getting it out in the open might invite copycats, but it also makes it more likely the issue will be addressed in a timely manner. My only regret is that I don't have a more detailed explanation of exactly how the person did it. If it was docking mechanics at play here, I'm not entirely sure how they managed to stick the core to our ship other than manipulating it in build mode, but I can say that we were unable to interact with the core in any meaningful way to remove it, but I suppose we didn't technically try everything to get it off.

I actually think it is very simple to do, without exploiting anything but not going to example here.

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49 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

This exploit is known. I Identified it and reported it before beta started. 

 

There is no positive point in publishing a game breaking bug. 

Sharing bugs is even a bannable ofence.......... 

There is a proper way to report bugs, available in the game menu. 

Glad to see it's a known exploit at least. I personally didn't see the harm in mentioning it on the forums given that this is a beta and we're all technically testing the game at this point. I've seen plenty of other posts detailing bugs and issues in the game on this section of the forums, so I felt pretty justified in posting about it. I also wouldn't describe it as dramatically as "game breaking" since the issue can still be resolved by affected players, albeit in a way that takes far more effort than it probably should, at least as far as I understand game mechanics. Certainly open to learning more.

53 minutes ago, BaconofWar said:

I am not sure why you are running an exposed core.... I mean that's all that is really need to get killed for someone to claim your ship...

Our core was not exposed, and their core was not placed on it or even near it; it was placed toward the back interior of the ship.

 

Ultimately, my purpose here was just to inform and possibly learn more about how this action worked. I feel as though that's been accomplished.

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Calling this an exploit is laughable.  The devs have stated before that actively scamming people in the game using in game mechanics is allowed and this is light years less malevolant than that and using it as a "tracking device" sounds pretty viable to me.  

But regardless of your moral stance on this...

 

You could have just stood back 1km away and recalled your construct from the list, his core probably would have been left behind.  Also in your territory you could maneuver tool his core out of there since you can use your tool on any construct in your territory (allows you to kick off unwelcome abandoned vehicles).   And while leaving the core in your territory is viable you might want to next time delete your ship in the marketplace parking lot above one of the giant guild ships that have a warp core and let them wonder how you got to the planets at the far reaches of the map when they next check your location.

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50 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Then how would public space stations work?

Many possible ways, set RDMS permissions for docking, have a docking toggle when piloting, option to eject unwanted cores outside of build zone.

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10 minutes ago, LouHodo said:

You could take apart your ship and reassemble it somewhere else without that illegal core attached to it.

 

Just a suggestion.

.............he did.  

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1 hour ago, Revelcro said:

Calling this an exploit is laughable.  The devs have stated before that actively scamming people in the game using in game mechanics is allowed and this is light years less malevolant than that and using it as a "tracking device" sounds pretty viable to me.  

But regardless of your moral stance on this...

 

You could have just stood back 1km away and recalled your construct from the list, his core probably would have been left behind.  Also in your territory you could maneuver tool his core out of there since you can use your tool on any construct in your territory (allows you to kick off unwelcome abandoned vehicles).   And while leaving the core in your territory is viable you might want to next time delete your ship in the marketplace parking lot above one of the giant guild ships that have a warp core and let them wonder how you got to the planets at the far reaches of the map when they next check your location.

While I appreciate your insights, the snark is unnecessary and unproductive. We did not try recalling the construct from the list, so that might have been a solution, but I'm pretty sure we weren't able to interact with the core to maneuver it even when it was in our territory. I wasn't the primary person fiddling about with it, but I'll test that out when I get the chance. Honestly, we're all about scamming people and pulling one over on others (see statement about being former EVE players), but this struck me as not a deliberate or intended mechanic. If it is intentional though, then yeah, I think it's pretty clever!

 

 

6 minutes ago, LouHodo said:

You could take apart your ship and reassemble it somewhere else without that illegal core attached to it.

This is what we ended up doing, though as I said, even after removing every single voxel and element of the ship, the other core was still attached to the "grid" of our core, even after abandoning and reclaiming it.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Guest Zamiel7 said:

The XS core was placed inside of our ship in the back so as to be less likely noticed by us.

Just a related note, press V (or alt+V if needed) and it will show you various cores nearby, including cores tucked away in the corner of a ship which can effectively nullify this tactic.

 

As another previously stated, this isn't the first time someone has done this. 😐

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45 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

Just a related note, press V (or alt+V if needed) and it will show you various cores nearby, including cores tucked away in the corner of a ship which can effectively nullify this tactic.

 

As another previously stated, this isn't the first time someone has done this. 😐

Yep! That's actually how we noticed it. The person that did it was even clever enough to name their core the same as ours, but it still obviously stood out as being a separate one.

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1 hour ago, Zamiel7 said:

 

 

This is what we ended up doing, though as I said, even after removing every single voxel and element of the ship, the other core was still attached to the "grid" of our core, even after abandoning and reclaiming it.

 

 

So even with everything removed you couldn't rebuild the construct using the blueprint?  

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1 hour ago, LouHodo said:

So even with everything removed you couldn't rebuild the construct using the blueprint?  

With Zamiel here, typing to continue the conversation while he fiddles with it. When he says remove everything he means remove everything BUT the core, it won't let us pick up our core because it still sees something is attached to it, even if we have no permission to interact with the 2nd core. So we can't remove or pick up our core, and we can't interact with the 2nd core. 

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11 minutes ago, sacredchord said:

With Zamiel here, typing to continue the conversation while he fiddles with it. When he says remove everything he means remove everything BUT the core, it won't let us pick up our core because it still sees something is attached to it, even if we have no permission to interact with the 2nd core. So we can't remove or pick up our core, and we can't interact with the 2nd core. 

This is accurate. We've since tried using the maneuver tool, as well as recalling the construct with the fetch command; neither unattached this person's core from our ship. At this point, a bug report has been submitted, and it's not like we ended up really being affected by it, so no big deal. I appreciate the various tips and insight into the issue!

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