Ship building guidelines

[XKentX]

Hello.

 

It would nice if experience alpha players can share some knowledge on the basics of the ship building principle.

 

I am guilty? of not doing the dedicated ship building tutorial as I only get about 5fps there and from what I see people get stuck in space etc in these.

 

I believe most of the DU newbros are experienced gamers etc so we do know how to build the thing etc, the hard part is the things like weight to thrust ratio etc.

 

Let's assume our goal is for example a freighter, aiming at maybe 4-6 "S" cargo containers and about 20-40tons of weight. (That's about what you get when you transfer ore no?)

 

How many and what type of elements this thing would require to fly in the atmosphere ?

Should it be S or M ? (probably you only know it when you see the size of the core)

How many and what size of atmo/hoover engines/booster should be enough to move that thing?

How many and what size of the wings/brakes/adjusters etc.

 

Of course, the exact numbers are subject to debate + there are more than one way of doing it but is there kind of some generic rule to start with ?

If I aim for the above stats, what is the "general" minimum/recommended hardware for this ?

 

I will (with most likely wrong values) to show an example:

For a 5t ship(pilot weight included) you aim for 2S wings, 1S stabilizers, 2S hover boosters 2S atmo engines, 1S atmo tank. Adjuster at each side.

 

[Iorail]

Actually a 5t ship is very small to be a freighter, for example, I just built a hover hauler speeder that empty weights 17.4t, xs core, 4 s containers, 4 xs containers, 1 extra atmo fuel tank for fuel storage (just in case). When this thing is full, it can carry 150t of pure T1 ore (almost 500,000 Quantas a trip) and still move at around 500km/h. 
So if we translated that to a ship,  you will end up with something like 25t-40t empty ship that can haul 200t-250t in order to be efficient. I will be building a space ship that will be able to carry that speeder and an additional 200t (350t-400t cargo) on live stream just like I did the speeder.

 

Side note, once you get the hang of it, you will love it, once that ship/speeder you built works properly, there is no better feeling in the world.

[XKentX]

I have the speeder with 2s atmo engines, 4xs containers 4s hovers. Before I slapped wings on it and turned it to flying, I was always crashing. Now it flies but I don't know how much weigh that thing can move so asking for like general ideas.

I want to build something that can transport 4-6 s containers full of ore. What engines/hovers/wings etc that's gonna be ? There should be some calculation other than just slap it on and see if it flies. At least in order to design it properly I need some kind of general idea of the amount of engines etc.

BTW, is going VTOL a thing ? Like can I put atmo engines vertically so I don't need a flat surface to slow down after getting to low altitude or it's highly inefficient/impossible ?

 

As that "5t" example I gave is just example, my upgraded speeder is like 18t or something. It flies OK with 2s 2xs and 4hovers. At least it looks like it does.

[MRog40]

1 hour ago, XKentX said:

I have the speeder with 2s atmo engines, 4xs containers 4s hovers. Before I slapped wings on it and turned it to flying, I was always crashing. Now it flies but I don't know how much weigh that thing can move so asking for like general ideas.

I want to build something that can transport 4-6 s containers full of ore. What engines/hovers/wings etc that's gonna be ? There should be some calculation other than just slap it on and see if it flies. At least in order to design it properly I need some kind of general idea of the amount of engines etc.

BTW, is going VTOL a thing ? Like can I put atmo engines vertically so I don't need a flat surface to slow down after getting to low altitude or it's highly inefficient/impossible ?

 

As that "5t" example I gave is just example, my upgraded speeder is like 18t or something. It flies OK with 2s 2xs and 4hovers. At least it looks like it does.

To figure out how much weight something can carry you have to learn some physics and read the engineering report to see all of your forces. Remember  F = m*a

 

You can calculate exactly how much lift you need. Different ores weight different amounts, I always calculate my stuff using hematite as that's a heavy common ore. Take the 6s container volume, multiply it by hematites density to get the mass. Do that mass times 20 m/s (this is 2 times earths gravity, which is kind of safe for an airplane-like flyer) and now you know how many Newtons of vertical thrust you need. Grab hovers for hovering with a plane, but if you really want to do VTOL you should use vertical boosters. You can calculate wing lift the same way for flying, but it's dependent on speed so you may need large runways to take off with large amounts. 

 

If you're really feeling crazy, get off of alioth and live on somewhere with less gravity (although this also has trade-offs like market accessibility and some resources are lacking on other planets)

[XKentX]

Yea, I did all this part and assume I can calculate the total mass "M" I need to lift. Now I can see the force in newtons but that's horizontal, given g=9.8 and can calculate what I need for VTOL. Was just wondering if that's "popular" approach of I should go with wings.

 

The problem is with the plane wing stuff. The force up is proportional to the speed. (I can calculate my speed, or more important how much time it will take me to reach that speed horizontally from the above with g=0) But what is the forumula for lift ? For example, I have 200 tons, and I will strap enough engines so I get to 300kmph in reasonable amount of time. How much wings do I need to generate 9.8*200,000 newton of upward lift at say 300kmph?

 

Edit:

The point is, in order to "design" a plane and not "build as you go" I need some way of calculating those in advance...

[Kezzle]

Note also that your atmo engines and airfoils decrease in effectiveness as the atmo gets thinner, while any space engines decrease in effectiveness as the air gets thicker. Atmo gear tends towards zero at around 11-12%, space engines tend towards zero at 10-11% (they won't turn on til you get that high). So at the air/space interface, you'll need to be able to gain altitude with only a very small fraction of your "nominal" lift and thrust. This will often need to be achieved with a ballistic trajectory.

[Pyrrhus]

I just made my first hauler to go from Sicari with less gravity to Alcott. I used a small core, but Medium Elements. 2xM Wings, 2xM Ailerons, 6xM Hoover, 6xM V. Boosters, 6xM Space & Atmo Engines, built a box, and trimmed her with M Adjusters. Hoovers, Flies, and did the trip.

 

So I loaded her up with 2xM Containers, 6xS Containers, and several XS. Dead weight. Fortunately in build mode the Flight Assist will tell you what is wrong. I needed Large Hoover, so I replaced them and added 3 flat hoovers underneath (they have fewer hp which is why I used the bigger ones) and she floats like a bee. Not enough Low Space Altitude Lift was solved by more Vertical Thrusters, I added another pair of 4xS Wings in the back, and she flew away.....right away. Those freighters take a lot of brakes, took 6xM Brakes. 

 

Dual.sh has calculators and formula that can help you figure out the math, but I just winged it. So I just kept rolling with it until the Flight assist said I could fly with a full load - and they are right.....once you get your first interplanetary bird in the air hauling cash, it is a great feeling.

 

Now it is time to build my Space Stations so I can haul more faster between the two and go up & down on my other accounts all at once, keeping the ore flowing.

 

For the ore must flow.

[Fra119]

Best tip I had (from youtube, cant remember the guy's name) was to start your build by placing a container and filling it with material, let's say you want a ship that carries 100t, you load that container with 100t worth of stuff, then start adding elements (engines, wings etc) until the flight assist tells you that that's enough to fly properly. At this point you have a good estimate of how many elements you'll need for your ship, and you can start the real build. It is actually easier to build knowing that you need, for instance, 6 L atmo instead of building around 4 and realizing you need 2 more but your ship is designer for 4.