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Broken economy


joaocordeiro

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4 minutes ago, MRog40 said:

Okay in your perfect game let's say I want to be a pilot.

Not my perfect game, JC said ppl should not be forced to have industry. 

And i agree there should be a consequence for that decision.  But that consequence should not be "you can start playing the game 2 weeks from now and pay 100 times the price of every item"

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3 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Not my perfect game, JC said ppl should not be forced to have industry. 

And i agree there should be a consequence for that decision.  But that consequence should not be "you can start playing the game 2 weeks from now and pay 100 times the price of every item"

That might be the consequence right now, but it isn't THE consequence. That is the beauty of this game, and what me and many others are trying to ensure the game stays - player driven. Players decide the consequences and not NQ, and because of that this game is dynamic and will always be evolving.

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5 minutes ago, MRog40 said:

That might be the consequence right now, but it isn't THE consequence. That is the beauty of this game, and what me and many others are trying to ensure the game stays - player driven. Players decide the consequences and not NQ, and because of that this game is dynamic and will always be evolving.

The long term result can still be the same if they activate bot orders for now while the economy grows. 

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9 minutes ago, Kamundo said:

oh god ...i stop after that, i will focus on playing and not on useless talking with closed minds spending time to cry all the day.

Please do stop and play the game.

This topic was intended as my feedback to NQ, not as your entertaining blog. 

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8 minutes ago, Kamundo said:

in general discussion forum >_<

So you do want to spend some time arguing with me, you just could not miss the opportunity to call me close minded. 

 

But i would call close minded to someone that thinks a player driven economy cannot have any interference from NQ. 

NQ's objective os to make this game a success. It will not if noobs get a "impossible to brake" disavantage and just start to quit the game. 

My feed back allows a player driven economy . But a regulated one. And a much more enjoyable one, specially for noobs. 

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3 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

My feed back allows a player driven economy . But a regulated one. And a much more enjoyable one, specially for noobs. 

On 8/29/2020 at 12:55 AM, joaocordeiro said:

This is killing the economy. Please act NQ.

The test has been made, and failed.

Now let's activate buy and sell for all items (with proper values and rarities) and test again.

Bots "for all items" don't left a room for a "player driven economy".

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Developer intervention ruins markets and dynamic, player driven economies. Look at Eve for example, increasing taxes thus decreasing margins on trading. I hope the devs dont intervene. This is a sandbox, use your imagination and let the devs focus on developing and maintaining the game instead of implementing a sub-surface NPC enconomy.

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I'm into industry, my factories are producing 24/7 right now but I cant sell yet, I need to upscale, have more bulk products, for now all goes into more production capacity. 

Also, I need to get a feel of the market, see what is required. 

I estimate around 2 more weeks before I can sell anything, so this is how the economy revolves right now, it takes time to start, but somewhat in the future I see the potential to be fully player managed. 

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On 8/29/2020 at 4:13 PM, Moosegun said:

At the market terminals I am talking about.

LMAO yeah because a Remote Control is something that is vital for new players on start up.......  of course noone is building them yet, people are focusing on stuff that people will buy, not niche products.

Oh just to point out there are now 13 remote controls on the market.

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Can we give the economy a little more time? It has been a week and a half since Beta started. There are items that take that longer than that to craft. Me and many other player are dedicated to building items and listing them on the market for everyone.

 

The one thing that will ruin industry is constantly changing the way the market works. How am I supposed to price raw and finished products if NQ is constantly turning market bots on and off?

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1 hour ago, Friday said:

Can we give the economy a little more time? It has been a week and a half since Beta started. There are items that take that longer than that to craft. Me and many other player are dedicated to building items and listing them on the market for everyone.

 

The one thing that will ruin industry is constantly changing the way the market works. How am I supposed to price raw and finished products if NQ is constantly turning market bots on and off?

Yep. Nobody should have to compete against NQ with an infinite supply. It's god mode intervention in a player driven game that doesn't need it. Good work industry guys, keep churning.

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I agree with one of the earlier posts this game is not yet ready for a hard-core pirate, heck not even for a hardcore shipbuilder, but I am seeing progress this week vs last week so I would ask for some patience.

 

Obviously if you  are ahead of the curve and looking for anything bigger/higher tier then 

 that is out of reach of a solo player at this stage -> need an org -> but if me experience is anything to go by,  they should be scrambling to  keep running what they have and probably do not have any excess they can put on the market  (just seeing the number of adds at the market, if you then promise every new member a space_capable ship and your numbers are growing , there will not be much left for the market as this moment).

 

Even if you are one of the rich orgs/individuals which has enough people to have build big factories, you rapidly need  an army of miners to keep the factory filled. 

As a solo industrialist, last week, I was nearly mining  60% of my time, just to keep an assembly M, running (whilst also expanding to be honest) but this weekend (by investing the proceeds from  the first finished goods sales), I was able to start putting buy orders into the markets for t1 ores and t1 pures and I was amased that they got filled each day, not talking massive amounts (but still a good 80KL per day)  enough to feed my Assembly M 24/24h  7/7d  so there is progress.

 

From the sales side,  I split my finished goods over  3 district markets i am closest too on allioth,  and they sold out within 24h (now 4 days successively).


Hence I would recommend some patience, I am about to add my  second production line ( this week so trying to help, (but sorry Daphne, still sticking to t1 stuff and S size).

 

Problems and solutions :

 

a) Distance  to market  :  As parking spaces are getting fuller (some from parked vehicules) and progressively from corporate adds  , this conflicts  with us wanting to land close to the market to benefit from linked container , flying in is become fun (read starts to require some skill) yet I would suggest-> maybe bump up a with the linked container range to cover the entire parking space to the market hall ( please keep working on also sorting out the parking issue itself )

b) a terminal or method to see you market containers across various districts (once buy order have been filled would be nice , just to avoid have less then a truck load ferry  (for the moment I am sorting this with putting on my 3 districts where I purchase , exactly the same orders).

c) please allow us to split stack on the market container as now, I need to restrict my buy order to the size I can put into my nanopack/linked container (especially important if you do d) and e) :) ).

d) courrier contracts please even if only between districts, so I can consolidate my transport to factory. -> I choose a location close to 2 district markets so I can procure there quite ok but anything further is just taking too much time to fly over and back (district jumping is great but limited to a nanopack load, which is very limited if you are buying raw materials). Couriers delivered to the factory , I can only dream of at this stage.

e) a market terminal , to build at your construct to do buy/sales  orders would be nice (does require ability to store stuff in a market container which brings up other issues though, unless if tied to drop at factory couriers (in/out). 

 

regards

 

 

 

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I’m just going to be short and to the point. Let’s assume that things that happened that put some people in the situation they are, never happened. Now you have everyone starting with nothing and also no more OP bots selling everything and their mothers. The economy still had to be started by players, like it should be. But we wouldn’t have players needing x items cause they wouldn’t have the things they have. Boredom is your worst enemy when you reach end game a week after soft release. That’s all. Nothing wrong with the Economy at all, I want things NOW it’s the problem here.

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As a part of understanding the economy, where does the "quanta" come from ? I mean how it's "generated" ? I didn't see any NPCs to kill with bounties or something.

I do see that I get like 100k each day but I hope that's not the only source...

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XKentX, in short :

 

a) the daily stipend of 100K/day/ person

b) any sale of items ( generated ultimately via either mining or salvaging ), that is sold to a bot (at a very low price)

 

As there are no NPC activities yet , those are the only 2 faucets into the economy.

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12 minutes ago, Nodles said:

XKentX, in short :

 

a) the daily stipend of 100K/day/ person

b) any sale of items ( generated ultimately via either mining or salvaging ), that is sold to a bot (at a very low price)

 

As there are no NPC activities yet , those are the only 2 faucets into the economy.

I don't know if a>>b but if it is then this alone breaks any economy.

Like, we are 1 week in. All the money that we have will have 0.5 value in 1 week (as the same amount will just be printed by people logging in during second week)... The effect will of course neutralize itself after a while but there is no talking about "working economy" with this currently.

 

I tried planning some industry and building some models but prices change so rapidly that there is nothing reliable that you can do about it.

 

if b>>a then ore price will go up so it's better to currently have ore than quanta, so you should just buy tier1 on all you spear quanta and hoard it until the bots go away and then cash in.

 

lol working economy. I think it's just too early for anything meaningful.

 

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1 hour ago, Iorail said:

I’m just going to be short and to the point. Let’s assume that things that happened that put some people in the situation they are, never happened. Now you have everyone starting with nothing and also no more OP bots selling everything and their mothers. The economy still had to be started by players, like it should be. But we wouldn’t have players needing x items cause they wouldn’t have the things they have. Boredom is your worst enemy when you reach end game a week after soft release. That’s all. Nothing wrong with the Economy at all, I want things NOW it’s the problem here.

The event we cannot speak of and the changes we cannot share that we asked for would have solved the problems, but alas the influential few outweigh the many. 

 

I don't understand why all of these guys are demanding to be endgame right now and complaining that the economy is broken because they have nothing to buy with their billions. What is the point of the game if you have everything you need already.

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XKentX,

 

I do not think it is important which faucet is the biggest, yes both are driving inflation in the long run but only if the sinks in the game do not offset, think about people currently buying ships in the store or from bots at high prices (as player supply is not able to cope yet).  Also in the early stages, a lot of "money" is going to end up on bankaccounts as we all want to have a bit of money at hand just in case when needed and most of us are putting money also in assets so it is good for the economy that the total amount of capital is steadily growing and that will dampen inflation as well.

 

For pricing on the market,  I agree these are volatile, especially on items where there is very little player supply. I am trying out some different prices in different districts to see how sales react to the prices. What I always do first  though is calculate based on the costs at which I can buy ores in the market (from players not bots) as a costprice and then add  a margin as my initial selling  (so I always know I am making a profit (I know this excludes the cost of capital but consider this a contribtion or marginal price approach) and then I start testing the market price in a couple of districts.

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