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NQ-Naerais

Dual Universe Talks New Generation Consoles

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I have lot more hope that DU will be made for VR befor it will get a console port.
Vr has not the restriction like a controller has in terms of controlls, but has to run smoothly at 60-80 FPS first.
Anyway could you give out actual requirements for DU and actualize from time to time? 
SSD or fast broadband internet mentioned in the requirements eg? That would help people decide easyer if the game even in alpha would meet theyr specs and would not disappoint afterwards.
I dont care for a console port anyway, so im out for that...

Next please o/

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What would be cool is if the next gen consoles as well as next gen console games integrated mouse and keyboard compatibility via usb. even if it meant buying a ps5/xbox keyboard and mouse, i'd be more than happy, and it would also cure that console vs pc issue for FPS games.

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You can read my mind in that post most of the time :) One thing that probably needs to be considered are the implications on pvp. For instance if there is an all playstation org will those players have the same chance to defend or attack an all pc org? If controls are different then the experience is different and maybe pc players can respond or act faster to name one. I don't think you can ever say the chances are equal but you know food for though :) 

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5 minutes ago, Onethousandstars said:

What would be cool is if the next gen consoles as well as next gen console games integrated mouse and keyboard compatibility via usb. even if it meant buying a ps5/xbox keyboard and mouse, i'd be more than happy, and it would also cure that console vs pc issue for FPS games.

You would still need to provide the means to play with the original controllers. Unless maybe you require a mouse and keyboard like some other games require additional hardware to be played.

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Let's say the game is done (at least at a playable MMO state) and perfectly polished for PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X (assuming they can handle DU). Everything works well.
Time flies and as always, theses new consoles are outdated by new PC components, will you keep upgrading DU disregarding the consoles spec?

Will you cancel new features if it's not adapted to the consoles? Will you adapt the game according to the consoles?

 

edit: will you rename the game Dual514 ?

Edited by Ater Omen

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I don't even like the sound of "but who knows" and "yet" in that DevBlog. Never have I ever seen a PC title improve for the existing player base when the developers went for console ports. It ruined UIs and UI scale, as well as input methods and customizability on all titles that I remember (like TES and FO series.. duh) and it drags the IQ requirement for games down below room temperature. Not to say that all console gamers are dumb as bricks - but a console is "easy to set up and use" for a reason. On the contrary - there surely are very bright minds on the console's gamers base too, but on the other hand those who really "can't computer" are those who only buy a console and the games need to work for them too.

 

DU is a nerd game in a niche genre and that's what grants it a shot at becoming a lasting experience in a second digital world for us, while casual/normal gamers can join in and buy stuff from the nerds. Still this talk about console ports gives me nothing but the creeps. If there ever is a console port in the future, I think mouse and keyboard should be mandatory for DU to start and players on console should be required to type at least 100 words per hour in the chat, or be disconnected automatically :P

 

A tale from SWG? I used to hang out at the markets, talking to players, helping them with their character's redesign, which required a constant communication flow to model their character to their desire. Now let console gamers enter the scene, which don't even have the option to chat? Great. I see similar situations in DU, where a customer buys a construct and talks to the creator about style choices and refinement. How's that supposed to work when players are laying on their couch holding nothing but a gamepad? If I have to wait for them to type on an on screen keyboard, I'd rather shoot myself in the face... or them. ;)

 

Quote

As a Windows PC exclusive developer, we indeed want to take the time to explain why Dual Universe will stay a PC exclusive game for the time being. So no need to go guns blazing in the comments, please let us explain things first ;)

I liked the "no guns blazing" hint in the DevBlog that made it obvious you're aware of me being out here, hehe. Howeeeverrrrr, you've lead with "for the time being", so.. well.. I'm really sorry, but...

Amanda Bynes Slap GIF - AmandaBynes Slap ComeHere GIFs :D ;) had it coming :P 

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There's no patent on Square Enix's Cross Bar for Final Fantasy XIV (example), which allows for up to 48 button inputs on a standard console controller without switching hotbars, and then there are 8, 16-button hotbars easily accessible with a simple button combo. And that doesn't even consider the fact that you can plug in a USB mouse/keyboard to your PS4 to play the game that way. They intentionally didn't patent the Crossbar design to allow other MMOs to incorporate it if they wanted to.

 

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How's that supposed to work when players are laying on their couch holding nothing but a gamepad?

Like, have you forgotten that Discord exists?

 

The idea that playing on a controller can't be done just as well as with a mouse & keyboard is simply a decades old concept that has no basis in reality with modern technology. It's just tired & lazy gatekeeping.

 

That being said, I totally understand NQ's decision to solely focus on mouse/keyboard oriented UI & controls for the foreseeable future. They're a relatively small development team and can't split their manpower & resources otherwise they risk not being able to fulfill their dev roadmap for DU. I'd rather they get the game completed with a m/kb UI than having to allow the quality of the game to suffer in order to incorporate another control scheme.

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9 hours ago, Geddon said:

The idea that playing on a controller can't be done just as well as with a mouse & keyboard is simply a decades old concept that has no basis in reality with modern technology. It's just tired & lazy gatekeeping.

A game like DU has so many keyboard bindings that making the game work with just a controller is unfeasible for obvious reasons, unless you're saying having to remember and use multi button actions all the time is equal to pressing a single key on  a keyboard. Implementing in game "workarounds" like radial menus takes both resources (dev time) and generally wil diminish an immersive experience.

 

Personally I wish NQ had not opened this can of worms as doing a devblog like this, which has absolutely no relevance to the game, will for some raises hopes of "they are considering it". And frankly making a statement like you did here only shows that there is a clear misconception by some on what makes the UX for a game like DU work.

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Here is my opinion: it is a waste of resources.

 

Why would you waste an already limited resources on porting this game to consoles when consoles are just dumbed-down computers. Sure, their specs got better -- it's still far from being on par--in terms of performance and controls--to a budget computer that costs the same to build. A budget computer is a JF-17 or an Su-30 being used as multi-role acquired for a price of $35m/unit. A console is an FA-50 (Korean FA-50) being used as multi-role acquired for the same price of $35m/unit. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not capable as a multi-role and never will it be no matter how much "facelift" you throw at it! You want to waste resources "modifying" a trainer and acquiring more units only to still get sub-par multi-role capability in the end?

 

Stop wasting resources on this non-sense when DU doesn't even have HOTAS support in the first place. Prioritize those because those are actually practical!

 

A computer is purpose-built for a game like DU and MMORPGs generally. It's like you wanna convert a trainer to a fighter jet! It doesn't work man!

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On 5/25/2020 at 10:55 PM, Geddon said:

The idea that playing on a controller can't be done just as well as with a mouse & keyboard is simply a decades old concept that has no basis in reality with modern technology. It's just tired & lazy gatekeeping.

I beg to differ wastly. I'm aware of the possibilities, tho just because you can connect mouse and keyboard doesn't mean that the majority of console players does this in reality. They bought a console for a reason - and that's usually not to get as close to the PC experience as possible.

 

Regarding ~"48 inputs and whatnot" on a gamepad: That's the point - it requires either a second, complete set of UI features or forces PC players to settle with bad interface inputs/fields "accessible by consoles and PC alike" - like we've seen without end in the past, where the prequels to newer titles had a more advanced and more powerful UI with resizeable windows, combined input fields with sliders, number field and up/down arrows, which only were accessible with a mouse cursor and didn't make it into the sequel, which was optimized for consoles too. But even if you can access and operate the game with a controller, you still can't type quickly in an in-game chat.

 

What about Discord then? You mean people can talk via voice comms and don't need a keyboard? Yeah, we have this tech in several games too - and games like RDR2 nowadays even go as far as to not implement any text chat and make in-game voice comms the only way to communicate. Thing is: This doesn't work out at all since players just don't participate. I've never had such a bad multiplayer experience as I had in RDR2. People usually remain completely silent, because they are either shy or don't want to talk or don't have a headset connected. In addition, Discord doesn't help you when meeting random strangers in game. Sure I can talk to friends on the phone, via Skype, Discord or TS and don't need a keyboard for that - but then I meet another player who asks me if I can help him out with directions or whatever and I'm completely unable to answer if I don't have a keyboard right there.

 

Again, just because you can connect decent input devices to a console doesn't mean that people will; and it doesn't change the fact that if you sell to the console market, you have to make it work for all customers - even those who don't have such input devices. Of course, again, you could follow my previous statement to make it a prerequisite - but then you defy the sole purpose of expanding into the console market, which is to reach a broader audience. It's only the hope to make a few more bucks while weighing the loss of PC players against the gain of console players and considering the additional cost of development. I've never ever seen this to turn into a win-win situation for all sides - and usually it's the PC player base who suffers most, even if many don't even realize it.

 

Sorry for the late response btw. If you quote me, please use the embedded forum features for direct quotes, so I get notified that I've been quoted. Thanks :) 

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Well you can add console players in some sort of restricted gameplay as primitive pre-space aliens, like evoks in SW living on some distant planet, playing gathering and basic craft. We can then disover them and hunt down for sport using keybords.


 

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