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Devblog - r0.15 Update (Part 2): Inventory Revamp!

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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

First knee jerk reaction.

 

- Inventory reduced from 64m3 to 4m3 (4000 liters)?

There's going to be some fallout from that one. Seems you will need containers even for the smallest build or repair jobs now. 

 

- Liters?

Not sure I agree that makes more sense, considering we are mostly dealing with voxels and elements with cubic volume.

 

- Fuel is suddenly heavier?

What is the rationale? Combustion based fuel liquids generally have less density (weight) then water.

 

Also the blog talks about transport being a problem that needs addressing, but it never says what the fix will be? Saying 64000L instead or 64m3, dosent really change anything.

Probably this.

 

When you mined say 100m³ the last time.

Now you mine 100l for the same time invested.

 

BUT the recipes probably still require just 100l ...

 

So you have literally a factor of 1000 more storage space ... in that sense. Cause something that needed 1m³ now needs 1l or something more realistic. ^^

 

Not gonna make a screw out of 1000 liters of iron.

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Sounds reasonable for crafting, but how would you translate raw materials into voxels? Are voxels now going to be 1000 times more expensive?

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I have a question. This may not be seen as an issue, but I kinda see it as one. So from what it sounds... Ore and stuff got lighter but honeycomb materials and fuel got heavier. I sort of have this issue where I like cool looking ships... But they're always way to heavy. Glass windows weigh a lot and the only viable honeycomb material is plastic. Why have other materials be heavier if there's no benefit of any kind? The result is everyone makes plastic ships. I love my marble and stone ship, but I'm planning on just swapping it all out for plastic because I have to which makes me sad.

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6 hours ago, Greenfox said:

Probably this.

 

When you mined say 100m³ the last time.

Now you mine 100l for the same time invested.

 

BUT the recipes probably still require just 100l ...

 

So you have literally a factor of 1000 more storage space ... in that sense. Cause something that needed 1m³ now needs 1l or something more realistic. ^^

 

Yeah, that's also how I understood it. They wrote that your inventory will fill up as fast as before whan you are mining even though it is 16 times smaller.

So you gather less material but you also use less, thus "drastically reducing the amount of weight that a player would have to reasonably move around", to quote them.

 

I think that's really good news, antigravity will no longer be unavoidable on cargos. The incentive on good logistics is going to be weaker, but the fuel consumption and time to travel should still be enough.

 

Regarding honeycombs, they did wrote that they are going to be more expensive, though in what measure remains to be seen.

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All in all good on paper changes for a lot of issues we all talked about. i cannot wait to see the actual implementation.

Also the fuel changes make sense,  in the end what they wrote is that you will need less fuel to fly the same distance. this makes it interesting for creators as you now have different choices, fly the same distance as you do now and replace the tank with a smaller one, or fly farther with heavier fuel so probably also a bit slower. But we can only tell after implementation if it really works out.

Hopefully the changes in cargo makes it possible to indeed make a viable cargo hover that is still practical. For logistical designers this can change the whole playing field.

 

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It's the first time I heard of honeycombs materials in DU, and it look important in the building process.

Does this have been discussed outside of NDA section ?

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2 hours ago, Yuuyake said:

It's the first time I heard of honeycombs materials in DU, and it look important in the building process.

Does this have been discussed outside of NDA section ?

It can be discussed outside of NDA now.

 

They realesed the info about ages ago. + now too.

 

Honeycombs as state in the devblog, are crafted from ressources. And can be used as building "blocks", aka the voxel material you can use to make ships etc.

 

Well we can't say what honeycombs are avaible, but we can say the generics ^^.

 

''' Generally speaking, honeycomb materials will require more ore to make. The amount of honeycomb material you could acquire previously was a little too high and we wanted to rein that in a little. We don't want you to feel constantly limited by honeycomb material, but we also don't want to make acquiring large quantities of honeycombed materials trivial. It's worth noting that we fixed a bug which changed honeycomb mass; honeycombed material will likely be overall heavier than before.  ''''

 

''' A quick note about honeycombs before we continue. Honeycomb material (construct building voxels) are now also fully craftable from the crafting system; the afro-mentioned pures and products are what is transformed into honeycombed material. The end goal is for all pures and products to have honeycomb versions you guys can use for building! '''

 

The honeycomb info was realesed with the new crafting realese last november i think ^^. Found the qoutes.

 

 

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Will be interesting to see how this changes the starting experience for players. Aka, how will it be now, when you start with nothing, and have to bootstrap yourself?

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9 hours ago, CptCabalsky said:

i fear the increased weight of honeycombs will severly alter the ships we have now. Some may weight hundreads of tons more. 

yeah >.< but they changed the fuel consumption so maybe everything is fine ?

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19 hours ago, Dinkledash said:

I built a medium cargo carrier that I haven't tested yet.  Wondering if it will explode on landing with empty containers and a full tank now.

i would have hope they fixed the damage model in this build 2

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On 5/1/2019 at 6:40 AM, Greenfox said:

The end goal is for all pures and products to have honeycomb versions you guys can use for building! '''

My response may have violated NDA so I'm editing it.

Edited by Dinkledash
NDA

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Hello, impressions:
- inventory going from 64m3 to 4m3 was the best option with actual containers build imo.
- I still don't like the idea of liters, especially for honeycombs or ressources… let's see
- rebalance of item volume and weight?? mmm… i Don't even explain how a person is supposed to lift an xl space engine into his nanopack, these things should only be deployable via base containers… small parts take more space, big parts less? …. wait, what?
- conservation of mass during process, nice, altho of course refining should makes the outproduct less heavy, hence the term "refining"... same for all elements on the chain to end-product...
- amount of honeycomb acquirable, reducing is interesting. Adding more mass to already wooden/plastic ships because of weight limitations? so-so imo.
- Rebalancing cost/weight with rate… Let's see how it turns out. Having XXs atmo and Xs Space could help.
- Somewhat irritated from havin sodium or silicon scraps but then , might be needed for further things so let's see.

I'm happy with the major point about inventory size, that was Breaking the game that much. Some nice balancing here and there… and strange moves. Eager to read what's next and to see how the inventory size mod will help to wipe dragons out.
Thanks for the hard work, some things needs more love but it's ok, a good cake take some time to cook :D 

Edited by Venstix
Too many questions at once were shaking my grounds upon posting

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23 minutes ago, Venstix said:

- going from m3 to liters doesn't make any sense, liters are used for liquids. Except fuels, everything is solid. Even some fuel might be solid irl. Plus, more control than 0.001 unit? what's the use even...

 

I mean, liters (L) are just a measurement of volume. Yes, its most commonly used for liquids, but I don't see that as a reason for them not being able to use this unit. Just look at Space Engineers, which bases its volume measurements in liters (L).

 

 

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On 5/1/2019 at 2:58 PM, Dinkledash said:

That would be very nice of them to repair all elements while they're recalculating your ship's weight.

this isnt nda forum darn it

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On 5/1/2019 at 12:01 AM, DaphneJones said:

So a large container still holds the same volume, but what about mass? Does iron still mass 8kg per liter when it's in the container, i.e. L container full of iron masses 1024 tons? If so, I don't see how this solves the cargo problem unless you can make more with the same amount of mined material.

 

Someone said on discord that mass is reduced by a factor of 16, but I don't see that in the devblog.

That was my writing but foremost about volume: 64m3 to 4000 liters gave that exact 16:1 number.

 

Mass reduction is not directly mentioned. They said they reduce volume and weight. Also they mention that mass carries over in crafting and in future we can transport ore in atmosphere.

 

I checked few elements like small space engine. It weights one ton and uses about 20 tons of ore. I only looked few other examples and they all pointed to similar 1:10 or 1:20 reduction in ore mass from ore to element in r0.14. Assuming element weights don't change and they use same amount of ore in r0.15 too, this pointo to at least 1:10 reduction in ore weight.

 

My larger freighter can lift away from planet without AG about 200 tons from Alioth, 400t from other atmo planets and 1000 tons from airless. Asuming 1:10 weight reduction in r0.15 that 200 tons would estimate to  one or two deposits refined to pure, depending on density.

 

Hover freighters were already easy and effective, so they are not a reason to change ore weights.

 

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I do understand that a small part that had 1m3 now can have 1L. Still that's 0.001 m3 so there was a problem there only because you do not allow sub-unity amounts. Still, a liter is a more practical unit anyway. We'll only be able to fully understand the impact of this change once we are able to try r15.

Also, along the lines of what Daphne Jones said,  fuel weight going up with fuel usage going down sounds good but don't make it go up in a unrealistic way. 1l of fuel should still be less than 1kg i.e. keep it below water density.

Inventory going down to 4000L (4 m3) will still be great for small parts but has the potential of being catastrophic for big parts. I do have noticed that you stated that small stuff will get a bit bigger and big stuff will get a bit smaller. So no real way to anticipate the impact of the change until we try r15.

 

All in all you clearly provide the tools for greater granularity which will make future adjustments not only easy but also possible.

On paper this all looks like good news. We'll all be there to give you the feedback on how everything works out!

 

Good job, NQ :)

 

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1 Liter = 1 dm3

 

> For the barter system, could NQ create a button "for free" , it will be easier to give a friend some stuff without having a "trade sequence". Actually, we must share a container via permission list...

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2 hours ago, Tango_Lima said:

1 Liter = 1 dm3

 

> For the barter system, could NQ create a button "for free" , it will be easier to give a friend some stuff without having a "trade sequence". Actually, we must share a container via permission list...

Just barter for 0 quanta and accept

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On 4/30/2019 at 11:01 PM, DaphneJones said:

Someone said on discord that mass is reduced by a factor of 16, but I don't see that in the devblog. 

Not mass, but personal inventory space. It went down from 64m3(64000L) to 4m3(4000L).

 

On 4/30/2019 at 11:33 PM, OnlyCoop said:

128 for extra large containers that we have never had. typo that needs fixed?

Indeed...

 

On 5/1/2019 at 2:23 AM, Greenfox said:

Probably this.

 

When you mined say 100m³ the last time.

Now you mine 100l for the same time invested.

 

BUT the recipes probably still require just 100l ...

 

So you have literally a factor of 1000 more storage space ... in that sense. Cause something that needed 1m³ now needs 1l or something more realistic. ^^

 

Not gonna make a screw out of 1000 liters of iron.

They said the time to fill up your inventory mining will be the same, and the inventory is 16x smaller, so mining is 16x slower (not 1000x).

And that still doesn't say anything about how much ore is needed for crafting.

 

On 5/1/2019 at 10:41 AM, Yuuyake said:

It's the first time I heard of honeycombs materials in DU, and it look important in the building process.

It's basically just a way to get a more realistic weight for your building materials. Because we are constrained to build with 25x25x25cm cubes, which is unrealistic, especially for vehicles. So they introduced lighter, honeycombed versions of building materials to compensate for the weight.

 

On 5/1/2019 at 4:57 AM, Entropic said:

Why have other materials be heavier if there's no benefit of any kind? The result is everyone makes plastic ships. I love my marble and stone ship, but I'm planning on just swapping it all out for plastic because I have to which makes me sad.

Light materials will naturally be popular for fast and/or efficient ships. But there will be other stats such as various types of damage resistance, that will make different materials suited to different tasks. You probably won't want to make a carrier, cargo hauler or combat ship out of plastic.

 

On 5/2/2019 at 5:09 PM, Oxyorum said:

I mean, liters (L) are just a measurement of volume. Yes, its most commonly used for liquids, but I don't see that as a reason for them not being able to use this unit. Just look at Space Engineers, which bases its volume measurements in liters (L).

Liters is often used for storage specs. A commonly known example would be your fridge, or the trunk of your luxury car. But there are plenty more examples of it in industry etc.

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