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Third Person


Dr_Walter_Bennett

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From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

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7 hours ago, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

There's already a 3PP for ships. See the latest long-play alpha demo in NQ's official youtube channel towards the end.

 

As for 3PP for the avatar. No. The devs already answered that: It's not efficient to add that in, it makes little difference and 1PP is more immersive most of the time (obviously that's subjective): It simply cuts down on work required and makes a better interface with 1PP. If there is the option it's outside dev scope for a release candidate. They may review post-release oc. I presume it will come to a head (nice pun) with combat too and any aiming reticle too.

 

Overall I think they've made a very wise decision here. I have tended to prefer a 3PP in MMOs, but seeing so many "jogging avatars" it adds very little and ends up looking a complete mess very often too. As you say there might be some reasons with respect to perspective eg blind spots or cinematic views but they're sufficiently important, "nice to have's only". The screen is a big interface for the UI and for the voxel stuff and simply a window for the player; removing a floating avatar getting in the way of all that is a stronger approach.

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9 hours ago, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

When poorly implemented then It'll only be used for cheating. It's not as easy as "just implement a 3rd person view" in a MMO,  there are a lot of things you have to consider 

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4 hours ago, Borb_1 said:

There's already a 3PP for ships. See the latest long-play alpha demo in NQ's official youtube channel towards the end.

 

As for 3PP for the avatar. No. The devs already answered that: It's not efficient to add that in, it makes little difference and 1PP is more immersive most of the time (obviously that's subjective): It simply cuts down on work required and makes a better interface with 1PP. If there is the option it's outside dev scope for a release candidate. They may review post-release oc. I presume it will come to a head (nice pun) with combat too and any aiming reticle too.

 

Overall I think they've made a very wise decision here. I have tended to prefer a 3PP in MMOs, but seeing so many "jogging avatars" it adds very little and ends up looking a complete mess very often too. As you say there might be some reasons with respect to perspective eg blind spots or cinematic views but they're sufficiently important, "nice to have's only". The screen is a big interface for the UI and for the voxel stuff and simply a window for the player; removing a floating avatar getting in the way of all that is a stronger approach.

I see, I didn't notice that. Thanks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/13/2019 at 5:33 AM, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

I disagree though, there should be no 3rd person, and for good reason, it removes a lot of roles for crew in larger ship, and it is less immersive.

Why would you need to think about landing procedures if you can just go 3rd person and fix your positioning? landing platmors and hangar designs would need little to no thought, as would fighters, the only reason for 3rd person in my opinion is to remove the need of other players and to make the games learning curve an instant gratification type mechanic, which the game inherently is not. It reduces the hard earned piloting skills that should be earned over hundreds or thousands of hours to maybe 20-30 and thats not how it should be imo. lock everyoe to 1st person permanently, if you want a scenic shot, have someone fly outside and take a fly by picture.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jack_Blade said:

I disagree though, there should be no 3rd person, and for good reason, it removes a lot of roles for crew in larger ship, and it is less immersive.

Why would you need to think about landing procedures if you can just go 3rd person and fix your positioning? landing platmors and hangar designs would need little to no thought, as would fighters, the only reason for 3rd person in my opinion is to remove the need of other players and to make the games learning curve an instant gratification type mechanic, which the game inherently is not. It reduces the hard earned piloting skills that should be earned over hundreds or thousands of hours to maybe 20-30 and thats not how it should be imo. lock everyoe to 1st person permanently, if you want a scenic shot, have someone fly outside and take a fly by picture.

 

Alright that's a fair argument but let's clear up the positions here for clarity:

 

1. Complex landing = More crew roles

2. Complex landing = more immersive (less complex landing therefore is less immersive)

3. 3rdPP = Easier to land therefore 1stPP makes landing harder

4. By implication: DU is "hard earned piloting SKILLS earned over 00's / 000's of hours vs 20-30's" (is this skill training or player skill?!)

5. picture taking: Should be restricted to other players

 

Those are the arguments being made, there's about 5 of them.

 

In isolation the statement more crew roles is well made. But adding it to more complex landing. That component needs examining.

 

A) Complex landing is seen in Star Citizen (a space sim which demands as such). It looks BORING. It looks FRUSTRATING. It adds very little immersion beyond perhaps the 1st time or 2. In fact it also reminds me of the CHORE of getting in and out of ships and cockpits which also has realism/immersion but ends up being GRINDY. Multiply by many players many times and it's imo a BAD gameplay design idea. About Crew Roles, this still holds but I don't think this is a realistic way to manage it.

B ) Take a positive alternative: The old Elite game had a tricky skill system of aligning your ship reticle with the rectangle to get into space stations and you'd blow up if you got it wrong. It perversely could be the most risky time of a mission. It was relief to do it successfully but after say x20 there was an upgrade to auto-docking sequence with 3rd person view video recording while the Blue Danude played in the background and you could relax happily as you docked and kicked-back sipping your refreshment.

C) For sure but the space sim crowd is incredibly niche. Most players just want grindy stuff like landing to be auto- and even 3rdPP view to enjoy the experience of piloting as opposed to millimetres of frustration.

D) I don't know how the skill-training system will work for Piloting as a skill, presumably though as a part of that maybe that is necessary and a good idea. Doubt it will be so exaggerated hours as you suggest though. Maybe it will also be ship piloting landing skill for different sizes the more you train it? No bearings on this yet.

E) This is not a good idea. Players like taking pics, like looking at the visual gratification of their ship designs in action and for combat, it just adds frustration whereas 3rdPP adds utility and fun.

 

I think your positive ideas are:

 

I) Crew Roles via Skill Training - How? Not player skill system though.

II) 3rdPP is easier to land but the subsequent is that is appropriate not inappropriate.

 

But they are independent of your consequents.

 

Peeling back to the original subject: Landing should be simple given it's frequency and it's link between ship gameplay and non-ship gameplay.

 

Edit: NQ just tweeted this picture of a ship hangar:  

 

See those ships just floating about, people just want to PARK their ship amongst others in a busy place and bustle about doing things instead of feeling like a bull in a china shop. Maybe there's at least 5 ships parked in there in view on the solo, coop size scale? I've seen videos of SC where it looks like trying to stuff a cow down a rabbit hole or even worse squeezing a ship into the back of the ship and it looks more like trying to get gameplay to work than just working invisibly so that actual gameplay chosen by players can carry on...

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  • 4 months later...

Honestly, I don’t see this game doing well in the open market without third person options. For one, their first person view tends to feel as if you’re crawling on the ground. You get stuck on plants, or player made holes you can’t see. It’s complicated to get out of different situations simply because you can’t see. With a setting to use third person if you’d like, it would be the best of both worlds. Those set on first person can continue using it and those who prefer third, can change to the setting. Many games do great with both options.

 

Secondly, being able to see your character tends to give the player a sort of “bond” with it. I have spent hours looking at my avatar in Landmark and it still warms my heart to see photos of it. For some players it builds on the emotional side of gameplay. For me, that’s as important as having beautiful sunsets, or desirable textures.

 

Third, while in third person, you can also see visual queue’s to assist with building, or even while mining. Instead of depending on staring the small building square to see the mode your in, in 3rd person, you can see your character shift as you flow through modes. And most importantly, while building, I can see exactly what I’m doing if I have a full line of sight of my surroundings. 

 

And lastly, emotes! Third person opens up conversation, such as emotes- clapping, dancing, sitting, etc etc etc... the opportunities are limitless. Just need to add one small option in settings! It’s that simple. 

 

Of course, this is only my opinion. But I admit...I strongly dislike playing this game (so far) solely due to not having third person capabilities. I gave it a couple months, hoping to get used to the first person mode, but for me, it’s so painful to get stuck on things constantly. And I absolutely hate feeling as if I’m a foot from the ground while moving up a mountain, or hill. I want to see the beautiful scenery...not the rock I’m stuck on! 

 

Please give us us the option in settings for third person! You’ll later make money selling emotes, clothing/skins, pets...the opportunities are limitless. Take a look at landmark, swtor, LoL, WoW, and so many others..third person is critical in those games, and it is here as well. 

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The argument whether there will be a 3rd person view or not is moot as JC has said in one of the GSN interviews there will be.

 

I think there needs to be a clear definition of what 3rd person view is in this case. For me it is unlocking the camera POV from the players head looking forwards to being able to move and zoom the camera 360 degrees and in a reasonable ranged half sphere around the player or construct being flown as the focal point. That would make sense and IMO is a requirement for the game to succeed and be viable for content creation.

 

Another thing is being able to completely disconnect the camera from the player and have it literally act as a separate person/entity being able to move away and observe events miles away from the player location. While I personally would not have any issue with it and can see a lot of cool use for it, I can see how that is something that impacts strategy and PVP in a way some may not want or think is unfair. As a compromise I could see availability of this mode being controlled through rights management and require a TCU to be active for your org. The range of the camera would in that case be limited to the edge of the hex the TCU controls. As a balance activating this would mean activating it for anyone in the claimed area.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/13/2019 at 4:11 AM, Borb_1 said:

There's already a 3PP for ships. See the latest long-play alpha demo in NQ's official youtube channel towards the end.

 

As for 3PP for the avatar. No. The devs already answered that: It's not efficient to add that in, it makes little difference and 1PP is more immersive most of the time (obviously that's subjective): It simply cuts down on work required and makes a better interface with 1PP. If there is the option it's outside dev scope for a release candidate. They may review post-release oc. I presume it will come to a head (nice pun) with combat too and any aiming reticle too.

 

Overall I think they've made a very wise decision here. I have tended to prefer a 3PP in MMOs, but seeing so many "jogging avatars" it adds very little and ends up looking a complete mess very often too. As you say there might be some reasons with respect to perspective eg blind spots or cinematic views but they're sufficiently important, "nice to have's only". The screen is a big interface for the UI and for the voxel stuff and simply a window for the player; removing a floating avatar getting in the way of all that is a stronger approach.

Well.  If they never implement a third person view than I'm out which is really unfortunate cause I was really interested in this game but I just can't stomach first person views.  I find a lot of game devs do this.  make a decision that alienates one sect of people when it may well benefit them to give people options and therefore include everyone... 

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On 2/3/2019 at 1:39 AM, Jack_Blade said:

and it is less immersive.

I have a very hard time getting behind the ole "immersion" argument.  There is no and never will be "immersion" in games until VR type games becomes the standard, preferably with suits that quite literally let you feel everything.  Right now, we are all sitting in our chairs (or standing at those standing desk things ) staring at a screens while mashing buttons on keyboards, game pads, mice, and such.  There is nothing immersive about that....

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7 hours ago, drizzzt said:

I have a very hard time getting behind the ole "immersion" argument.

This is absolutely true. Looking at most, if not all, the great MMO titles out there, they share a common trait.. which is an "on foot" 3rd person camera view.  I'm also pretty sure that JC said during the gamescon interview in 2018 that 1st person camera will be coming, just not yet.

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