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Persistent Players

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3 hours ago, geronimo553 said:

I disagree, a logout delay only prevents the inevitable "player disappears" due to disconnecting. Also there are far more age old ways of "getting out of a fight" then just the example of combat logging I provided. With player persistence, trolling will decrease to an extent because the person is not free to disappear from their actions. Thus this would improve gameplay and experience over all for everyone. Also the player persistence in rust is a highly favored system that would work great in DU, in my opinion.


As for additional concerns about making the game more "tedious". The player model does not need physics attached when they log out. The body can just became a 3d placeholder of a person until they log back in. In terms of straining the game, it would be no different from say placing a chair on the ground or a locker with an inventory inside. DU is already capable of adding player persistence and it would not be too difficult to implement. 

If you have to get to a safe place before logging out, so noone can rob you, that is tedious in my opinion. And it will reduce the number of active players by 90% or so.
If by trolling you mean "suddenly 100 enemy players are logging in next to your base", there are other possible mechanics, like login delays.

 

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Crafting times also. Drives away casual players, and in DU it looks like casual = pretty much useless… well unless other players fill them up with ressources and they serve as factories… 😛

I'm not in the Alpha yet, but in an interview Baillie said, that they are aiming the game at people with jobs and families.
Also to increase profit, you will have to try to keep all kinds of players playing the game and only drive away the toxic ones.

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6 minutes ago, MaltoSigma said:

I'm not in the Alpha yet, but in an interview Baillie said, that they are aiming the game at people with jobs and families.

Also to increase profit, you will have to try to keep all kinds of players playing the game and only drive away the toxic ones. 

To my understanding right now , it's totally possible to live around the Arkship doing this and that and retrieve your dues intact next login, but considered how long crafting and traveling times seems to be, having no time for it means no higher tier stuff… at least not before a moment!

Keeping toxic players away is going to be done via the time & skill necessary to get anywhere i Believe, but also by biggest factions or smaller mercenary orgs, because yeah, in a world where stuff doesn't Simply respawn everything valuable is valuable and shouldnt land in the hands of ill intended people… 

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19 minutes ago, Venstix said:

To my understanding right now , it's totally possible to live around the Arkship doing this and that and retrieve your dues intact next login, but considered how long crafting and traveling times seems to be, having no time for it means no higher tier stuff… at least not before a moment!

Keeping toxic players away is going to be done via the time & skill necessary to get anywhere i Believe, but also by biggest factions or smaller mercenary orgs, because yeah, in a world where stuff doesn't Simply respawn everything valuable is valuable and shouldnt land in the hands of ill intended people…  

Sry, I haven't been clear with my wording. "Toxic" is a term used in LoL for example to describe players accused for hacking, verbal harassment, racism and sexism. But also helping the enemy team or having a negative attitude (Which would be acceptable in DU, since it doesn't have to be a team game and noone is forced to ally with you).

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It's been very clear, and i maintain my answer for toxic asshats can only grow in an environnement where players/devs can't/dont' want to do anything about it.
Another condition is the amount of estimated gameplay time versus damage inflicted to anybody else, if the ratio of time they need to spend on to get good enough to abuse on anybody isn't matching their expected destruction rate, it won't fit griefers and guys alike. Especially if it means taking risks for them to lose their griefing tool.


Helping the enemy team will get punished ingame for sure, and having a negative attitude is viable as you stated, on the other hand either this personnality finds mates like himself to defend either he becomes a prey for obvious reasons.

Persistence...

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TUs make Alioth perfectly grief save fortunately! And in pvp zones you will need energy shields. Which won't help against large organized griefing necessarily.

Persistence ^^

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Except for people who are RPing griefers like pirate gang, which is totally legit and I support. Just except a lot of playful return fire and a taskgroup to seek and destroy. Persistance forces a higher degree of required trust and long-term building of social relationships. Casuals can easily find a place in organizations, they just won't be leading them which will require hours of out of game logistics and organizing so the faction is better able to handle casual underlings.

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7 hours ago, Context said:

Except for people who are RPing griefers like pirate gang

I feel like "griefer" gets toss around alot, but I don't think many of the times it's applicable.  A few examples from other games:

  • Someone who kills / CCs you in League isn't a griefer, even though you can theoretically win without doing so.
  • Someone who intercepts your shipment in GTA Online isn't a griefer, they literally get an objective to do so.
  • Someone who raids your base in PvP Ark isn't a griefer, as that is the intention of the game.
  • Someone who goes rogue in The Division isn't a griefer, as that is also an intention of the game.

These individuals have an in game task and purpose, which gives the game flavor and additional experiences.  Piracy will in DU will give rise to punitive forces (like how the Front Line decided to come down on Laughing Coffin in SAO).

 

Actual toxic behavior outside of the game's goal should be considered griefing as it is outside the mutual understanding of the players and the narrator/narrative.

  • Intentionally feeding the enemy team / abusing All Chat (League)
  • Driving the wrong way in a race
  • Aggroing and kiting a Titanosaur to another person's base in PvE servers (Ark).
  • Flash Podding a monster b/c someone mounted it (Monster Hunter).
  • Intentionally team killing.

 

I feel like what NQ is planning caters well to many kinds of play, especially with the safe moons and Arkships.  If you want to build massive constructs for the sake of building, no one forces you to use what ever Unobtanium there is.  And if you do really want it, go out and find a way to get it (escorts, marketplace, etc.).  Glory isn't given, it's earned; you're not waking up a hero, go be one.

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On 12/16/2018 at 8:48 PM, Venstix said:

Crafting times also. Drives away casual players, and in DU it looks like casual = pretty much useless… well unless other players fill them up with ressources and they serve as factories… 😛

Casual players are not useless if they are part of an org.  For example, if I am running a miner org, during prime time I would need players to move cargo, mine, fly cargo, build outposts etc.  All the stuff to do the job can be supplied by the org, the casuals just do the jobs they want to do.

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2 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Casual players are not useless if they are part of an org.  For example, if I am running a miner org, during prime time I would need players to move cargo, mine, fly cargo, build outposts etc.  All the stuff to do the job can be supplied by the org, the casuals just do the jobs they want to do.

You are totally free to believe so, I stand still. I have no idea how you are going to put casual people into mining/hauling/building. Good luck mate!

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I don't think casual players won't have a place in an org.  I've actually employed casuals to great success when trying to just get more people to do something collectively (fighting bosses, raiding bases/dungeons, building / hauling).  It doesn't matter what their skill level is when all you need is another warm body shooting, carrying, or crafting something.

 

But I agree with Venstix, you have to treat them like people.  I don't think very many people would enjoy mining for mining's sake.  For most games with mining, mining is scut work.  Casuals shouldn't be a means to an end, but an end in themselves.

 

I had a casual in one of my guilds that would log on once or twice a month, drink and chat, solo some bosses, and dump off everything he didn't need to the new guys.  And if he happened to be on for a raid, it was like having an unexpected second helping of dessert; rather than having someone missing 3/4ths of the time. 

 

People are casuals for various reasons, and they'll probably be better off and more efficient at doing the things they like.

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16 hours ago, Odendis said:

But I agree with Venstix, you have to treat them like people.  I don't think very many people would enjoy mining for mining's sake.  For most games with mining, mining is scut work.  Casuals shouldn't be a means to an end, but an end in themselves.

I would disagree with this, firstly because I love mining.  So do a lot of other people, I used to be a casual miner in Eve.  Was part of a mining corp who would message me if they were going out on a job and I would join them if I was up for it.  Several others in the corp did the same thing, sometimes would go every week, sometimes once a month.

 

The same goes with hauling, most people might find it boring but I have mates who have played Elite since launch and has pretty much spent the whole game hauling goods.  They are more than happy shipping stuff through galaxies whilst watching Netflix.

 

People enjoy doing different things, I see a 'casual' player as someone who is keen on doing a certain task (be it mining, building, pvp), when they are around but not really keen on the bigger picture stuff or having to commit specific time.

 

What I am not talking about is signing up casuals and forcing them to mine, I mean finding casual miners and giving them a role and the tools to do it.

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Ah, my apologies, I misread your post (not sure how, reading it again).  I somehow inferred it as regulating them to simple trivial tasks, and I've seen that happen many times.

 

I was more talking about the daily mining grind, more so than the organized excavation trips as well (in reference to scut work).  Kinda like the movie Holes.

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Mmm… I'm a bit "surprised" about the Eve story… what were your guys mining/hauling to be mindless and happy?

Cause i played it too and i'm not so sure how you'd be able to do that with valuable ressources, unless you were in a specific portion of the universe where strangely no one seems to have interest in free loot?

Like how many mindless players are going to get rekt simply because they'll be digging a damn tunnel alone feeling like carebears and get blocked down in it?
I mean even there mining is too important to let casuals take care of it, too many holes, could possibly dig <<Somewhere that shouldn't be dugged out>>, and about the hauling… my god you have to script an autopilot to make sure it reaches destination if looking for big capacities!

Ok, so basically the Casual Player Handling is just another Topic.

Back to Persistence. OP should make a Poll, even if most of the replies here says "Persistence On" anyway, then maybe someone @ NQ would be able to answer it sometimes. :)

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28 minutes ago, Venstix said:

Mmm… I'm a bit "surprised" about the Eve story… what were your guys mining/hauling to be mindless and happy?

Cause i played it too and i'm not so sure how you'd be able to do that with valuable ressources, unless you were in a specific portion of the universe where strangely no one seems to have interest in free loot?

Played Eve for 4-5 years and never died whilst mining, died plenty of times to pvp but never whilst out mining. There were loads of places you could mine mid sec without ever being bothered.  I also think we might have a different definition of 'casual', I see it as someone who is not as dedicated (plays the game casually), you seem to class them all as imbeciles.

As for persistence, I am not that fussed, i am hoping that the majority of conflicts have the scale that makes it a moot point.

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That's a no-no, i was about to mention dedication but wanted to get the thread back on it's rails, so you're welcomed to fix your statement.
Also, brains doesn't save you from unpreparedness. It's not about general intellect, it's about game's mechanics knowledge. In that regard, we are all dumb now about combat in this game, if i needed to make myself clear.

Well, we for sure didn't played in the same place then, by the time i was playing there was no way to be mindless on mining even in 0.9 so… 

Yep. Pretty much it atm.

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